Paying for someone to scout

[Calbuck]

I've always felt scouting is part of the hunt. Why would you want someone else doing your hunt? How can that be rewarding?

If you can't find the time to do it yourself. Maybe you shouldn't be hunting.

^^^
This.

 

[Bubblehide]

Providing a location isn't the same thing as a harvest of the animal. Over the years, I've given plenty of people solid information. The vast majority weren't able to take that solid information and make things happen. If the person isn't already a reasonable accomplished/experienced hunter, it could easily be, well, a waste of their money. On the other hand, provide that information to an experienced/accomplished hunter, and the odds will likely be with them. Or in the least, they will still take a nice buck. But the bottom line is that yes, he will have people lined up, stacked up, piled up, and there will be a waiting list several years long.

 

[charvey9]

Hell of a job if you can get it!

Legalities and license requirements aside (not sure what permits would be required), I don't see how it is any different than paying an outfitter / guide for any of their services.

I also know guys that have done something similar for outfitters. No the location of a big elk? That could be worth some cash to the right person. Especially in the limited draw areas where you can not get a tag anyway.

 

[Bar]

Providing a location isn't the same thing as a harvest of the animal. Over the years, I've given plenty of people solid information. The vast majority weren't able to take that solid information and make things happen. If the person isn't already a reasonable accomplished/experienced hunter, it could easily be, well, a waste of their money. On the other hand, provide that information to an experienced/accomplished hunter, and the odds will likely be with them. Or in the least, they will still take a nice buck. But the bottom line is that yes, he will have people lined up, stacked up, piled up, and there will be a waiting list several years long.

An experienced accomplished hunter should be able to find the game themeselves. Otherwise they aren't very accomplished.

I don't care if someone comes from 2000 miles away, or hunts his backyard. Finding the game is part of the hunt. Good hunters do it all the time by themselves. The only way to learn how to do it...........is to do it.

The guys selling the service are the accomplished hunters., because they learned how to do the whole hunt.

 

[Bubblehide]

An experienced accomplished hunter should be able to find the game themeselves. Otherwise they aren't very accomplished.

I don't care if someone comes from 2000 miles away, or hunts his backyard. Finding the game is part of the hunt. Good hunters do it all the time by themselves. The only way to learn how to do it...........is to do it.

The guys selling the service are the accomplished hunters., because they learned how to do the whole hunt.

Yeah I agree, but things in life change, and finding quality game animals can take time, not everyone has the time. I'll use myself as an example. If I were to chose to hunt a zone/unit that I am not familiar with, I would no pretty much nothing about how the game utilizes the zone/unit, and be at a serious handicap. I have the summers off, so potentially, I have all summer to scout. The issue I see is that depending on the hunt dates, the game may have moved on to utilizing different areas. I hunt one such area on a regular basis. I can tell you, that those hunters that don't understand the change in area usage are at a serious disadvantage, and there results generally reflect that, while those that do understand the change, generally fill their tags with some quality bucks. I'll add that this change is usually weather dependent (not necessarily rain/snow, but cold), so the area(s) the game is utilizing changes to some degree from year to year, while the pattern of use remains the same. In short, knowing where a big buck is during a specific time period, doesn't mean the buck will be there during the season. Granted some zones/units can be much more predictable than others.

 

[Bar]

That's hunting. We all go through that. Still no reason to let someone else do the hunt for you.

 

[land cruiser]

Pre scouting is just a line item in guided hunting. I must be missing something. Every good sheep hunt is pre-scouted, what makes deer different?

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[muledhunter]

Pre scouting is just a line item in guided hunting. I must be missing something. Every good sheep hunt is pre-scouted, what makes deer different?

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Exactly right. Everyone needs to get off there high horse. These guides make a living and support a family. Better than using the system.

 

[tipsntails7]

Pre scouting is just a line item in guided hunting. I must be missing something. Every good sheep hunt is pre-scouted, what makes deer different?

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I don't know about Canada but for Alaska you don't have a choice if your a non res, you are forced to have a guide. I have nothing against outfitters and nothing against guides, although as long as legally I am aloud to not use one I will.

Where my issue stems from is the the photos, gps coordinates, google map trail to follow, the strategy of how to hunt it. You might as well give your tag to Brian and watch him harvest it. And I know this happens for sheep and elk, I don't like it there either.

But if all you care about is inches on the wall to brag about in your living room then I guess this is pretty cheap. When someone asks about the hunt are people really going to say, paid a grand to get coordinates, walked out there and pasted him? For me I hang heads to remember the stories of the hunt, but maybe that's because I've never harvested a masher who knows.

 

[Bar]

High horse for thinking a hunter should do the hunt?

That's what's wrong with hunting today. Most want the easy way, and the kill is everything. Pretty sad.

 

[GotDraw?]

I've always felt scouting is part of the hunt. Why would you want someone else doing your hunt? How can that be rewarding?

If you can't find the time to do it yourself. Maybe you shouldn't be hunting.

Is this a debate of ethics or purism? If ethics- all we can ask is that each us of tries to have a realistic set of ethics and we individually abide by them when no one else is around to judge us. It is unfortunate that ethics police sometimes exist, but maybe they have to when some folks either have none or their "ethics" are 3+ standard deviations from socially acceptable norms and they self justify almost any action.

If this is a "purist" debate, well, there are many of those to make in hunting and it is difficult to draw a black line in the many shades of grey.

Some riflemen will argue that shooting at an extreme distance is not hunting once you're shooting so far that a hunter can carry on a conversation in full voice, fire up a pot of coffee, answer a cell phone, putt around on a four wheeler... all without the animal having a prayer of knowing it's being hunted. Perhaps it is, but I don't know what the black line is for that distance.

Traditional bow hunters may debate about compounds...

Flintlock hunters may disparage in-liners...

If a hunter does not live out West, lacks time and lacks local friends to get/share info with/from, then I can see where this service is of value and in that regard, the OP's subject will fully book his service. The hunter/client has not bought any guarantees, he still has to hike in, hope the buck is there, get on it and close the deal.

Here's the question-- How is this different than having a hunting buddy who lives in CO, OR, UT, etc. tell you about "the big buck he saw and where it is..." vs paying for that knowledge?

If we take the purist arguments to the extreme, then at some level one could make the argument that a true backcountry hunter must figure it all out for himself and that all the information we share on Rokslide, the mapping sites, and all the GPS chips, etc are for cheating, slothful wanna be's.

It's all shades of gray at some level.

JL

 

[Bar]

You sure wouldn't want to hear my views on everything. My goal is to try and make hunters hunt in a way that is the most rewarding. That involves doing everything themselves, and giving the game the best chance to beat them.

Yes, ethics are a huge part of my hunting. I'm much harder on myself than I expect others to be. However, not doing the whole hunt yourself is where I draw the line. I find it hard to not say something. I'm not a politician who will tell you what you want to hear. I say what's on my mind. If it helps anybody, i've accomplished my goal. Even if it pisses off the majority.

 

[flyinsquirel]

^^^^ Yep
Edit - Bar snuck in front of me. I agree with Gotdraw. But I'll still buy Bar a beer given the chance.

With all the infighting among hunters who claim the morale high ground and condemn the way other hunters do it differently than them, we don't stand a chance against the antis.

How many of you that have a huge problem with this know that you are voicing your oposition on a forum owned by a guy that among many other things, runs a scouting business? And the other owner shoots animals from a mile away. Oh wait, he also uses a stick bow, damnit, now I don't know what to think........

Get it together guys. We're all on The same team.

Sheeze, where's littlebuf when you need him. Justin - get him to come back for encore, just this once.

 

[Bar]

The anti's would be exactly the same if we were all best buddies. This rumor is only talked about by hunters.

I'll tell you what the anti's do jump on. It's when a hunt is too easy and doesn't give the game much chance of survival. Baiting is just one example.

 

[Beastmode]

I don't see an issue if someone is willing to pay. More power to them. It's no different than a buddy telling you to try and hunt a certain drainage because you drew a premium tag, or someone giving you some info on an area here on the forum.

It isn't like the guy is tagging animals with a GPS unit. You still are going to have to go out and find them.

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[Felix40]

I think it's a great idea. I wouldn't use it myself but I can see why guys would. If you draw a tag that took 10 years to get it sure wouldn't hurt to have a good idea where to start when you get there to hunt. At $1000 it's not like he's getting rich.

 

[mntnguide]

Exactly right. Everyone needs to get off there high horse. These guides make a living and support a family. Better than using the system.

Hes not a guide. Not an outfitter, and he doesnt have permits. I agree that people need to get off the high horse when it comes to bashing guides who make a living, a MEAGER one at that, helping others who dont have the tools and resources to accomplish a hunt. . But Brian is just trying to get money by going on summer hikes and I personally view it as borderline illegal outfitting as he is seeking money from it. I dont see how that it is not a form of "outfitting".

 

[robby denning]

I've watched this thread closely because it has the potential to start a silly fight. I really wanted to stay out of it because I've had a similar business for the last 19 years and can't offer an unbiased opinion on the subject. I've never used Rokslide to promote my scouting/guiding business and don't plan to start. However, I don't want this to turn into a fight.

So here's a few guidelines to follow if we want this thread to stay up:

If you don't like the idea of paying for prescouted info and you expressed that opinion- great, no problem, all opinions welcome, but please don't continue to banter on about the subject with no new info or perspective. We understand and respect that you don't like the idea and wish to do it differently yourself. I have no problem with that opinion, even though it affects me personally. I just don't want this to turn into another thread of "this class" of hunters vs "that class" of hunters.

Same as if you're for the concept, post your opinion once and move on. No need to argue with those who don't agree with you.

The laws allow for this type of service if you're not accompanying people into the field, which then becomes guiding and would require a land-use permit. Beyond that, if you want to stop it, you need to rally your state's legislator for a change in the law.

If there is any new opinions or someone has questions, then post them up. Let's just not give this an opportunity to go from a simmer to a boil. That already happened on Monster Muleys so if you want to lose an hour watching the fight, check it out over there.

 

[GotDraw?]

Point well made

 

[ColoradoBackpackHunter]

Is anyone here familiar with outfitters and guiding licensing that can school me quick on general costs and what the costs go towards? If its legal I don't have a problem with it but my personal ethics say otherwise. I don't have an issue with outfitters and guides although I'm not their biggest fan but at least they do give back to the state for the use of the land. From what I've read on outfitting and guiding this seems to be a grey line between a guide and an outfitter drop camp.