I propose the “Fair opportunity in America’s Outdoors Act”

Joined
Nov 26, 2018
Messages
1,198
Location
Ohio
I think the vast majority of us posting here believe in a few fundamental things, one being access to our vast federal lands for recreational opportunities as well as state management of wildlife via the North American model. However we’re seeing a worrying trend in American hunting, specifically non resident big game hunting opportunities are becoming more and more monetized, greatly benefiting the coffers of state fish and game agencies, subsidizing resident license sales, and giving increased preference to politically connected outfitters. This comes at great detriment to the average American hunter. It might benefit him to a minor degree if he is lucky enough to live in a state that has ample big game opportunities, but it comes at his great cost if he chooses to explore opportunities in the 49 other states.

Along with state management of course comes states rights. Bottom line the federal government has no right to come in and tell a state what to do with its management of wildlife outside the bounds of the ESA. In my mind nor should they. Likewise states should and obviously do give great preference to their residents through both costs of tags and opportunities to hunt. However in many states hunting as a non resident is becoming an onerous task out of reach of many. Most of these opportunities however occur on federal lands that the rest of the country in large part pays for and owns.

That said the federal government provides millions to the states each year through matching funds through the Pittman Robertson Act, the excise tax we pay for through hunting and fishing equipment. These funds are only allocated if states meet certain requirements such as keeping fish and game sales dollars out of the general fund and put back into wildlife management. (If I’m getting any of this wrong, apologies, I’m by no means an expert.)

I propose this be amended to at least give a left lateral limit to all states with their non resident opportunity.

“A state shall not receive Pittman Robertson Funds if they,

1. Charge a non resident more than 10 times the resident cost of a hunting, fishing, or trapping license or tag valid on federal land.

2. Allocate less than 10% of all limited entry tags to non resident hunters or fishermen valid on federal land. If 6-10 tags are allocated for said unit, at least one of those tags shall go to a non resident. If 1-5 tags are allocated, at least one tag must be issued to a nonresident every other season. If tags valid on federal land are sold over the counter to residents, at least 10% of the sale amount for the previous year must be provided to nonresidents.

3. Provides any differing rules or regulations to nonresident hunters, fishermen, or trappers compared to that required of residents while utilizing federal land. (Eliminates nonresident guide requirements on federal land or wilderness areas.)

4. Proves any preference in drawing to outfitted non resident hunters for tags valid on federal land, or allows outfitted hunters to purchase additional points compared non outfitted hunters.

5. If preference or bonus points are utilized in tag drawing process, these points will not cost more than 10 times that of the resident cost, or 10% of the nonresident tag cost, whichever is less.”

Bottom line the idea above is a dumb fireman’s idea of how to tackle the problem after a finger or two of bourbon. I’m sure it’s far from perfect, and I anxiously await it getting torn to bits by people who are way smarter than me. But it’s at least an attempt at tackling an issue that is barreling down the neck of all of us who enjoy hunting all across this great country. Maybe it will start a conversation that refines itself into something good for all of us.

I’m sure some residents of western states can’t wait to angrily type into their keyboards or smartphones after reading this. That’s fine, all I ask is you stop for a moment and consider the big picture. We’re all non residents in 49 other states after all.
 
OP
B
Joined
Nov 26, 2018
Messages
1,198
Location
Ohio
Terrible idea.

"lucky enough to live in a state that has ample big game opportunities"
How about lucky enough to live in a COUNTRY that has the freedom of choice to live in the state one chooses? Like, a free will sort of thing.
Agreed, we are all lucky to live in a country with awesome big game opportunities. Not all of us can pick up and leave family, businesses, careers, etc because we want to hunt a different state.

It might be a terrible idea, but you didn’t tell me why. I didn’t claim to have all the answers, I’m just a guy that wants to hunt all over this great country.
 

Rob5589

WKR
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
6,243
Location
N CA
Will never happen, will never have any wide spread support. If, and that's a monstrous if, there were states that had literally no hunting available, it may gain some traction. Simple fact is, you can hunt something in every state. Maybe not elk/sheep/moose etc, but there is something available.
 
OP
B
Joined
Nov 26, 2018
Messages
1,198
Location
Ohio
Will never happen, will never have any wide spread support. If, and that's a monstrous if, there were states that had literally no hunting available, it may gain some traction. Simple fact is, you can hunt something in every state. Maybe not elk/sheep/moose etc, but there is something available.
Really? In most states, it wouldn’t change much if anything for residents. Might piss off one or two outfitters, but that’s it. Plenty of outfitters seem to get by just fine without the welfare in CO.
 

sndmn11

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Mar 28, 2017
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9,292
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Morrison, Colorado
Agreed, we are all lucky to live in a country with awesome big game opportunities. Not all of us can pick up and leave family, businesses, careers, etc because we want to hunt a different state.

It might be a terrible idea, but tell me why. I didn’t claim to have all the answers, I’m just a guy that wants to hunt all over this great country.
Sure you can, the opportunity to move in pursuit of happiness is one of the main things that has made this country great. YOU are the only one standing in your own way.

Punishing an entity for not appeasing your wants is un-American. It is the state's rights to manage the wildlife within its borders in whatever way it sees fit. That has NOTHING to do with land access. The two are unequivocally unrelated. ALL states know the parameters by which they must ALL perform in order to realize earned PR dollars, and have made decisions based on those parameters having weighed the pros and cons. Changing those parameters in response to a state's rightful wildlife management decisions in an effort to influence is an unethical method of reward/punishment. In the case of your proposal, it is intended to change the rules after the fact to punish in hopes you will get your way.
 

Maverick1

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Adirondack History: Land of Makebelieve | Lake Placid, Adirondacks
 
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Apr 21, 2015
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970
I don’t see any of your suggestions that make any measurable change. Most states are 10% or more already, and few charge much more than 10x for non residents. Certainly not enough more that tag cost is a major cost to an out of state hunt.

And your 1-5 tags, then 1 tag every other year, would have states giving 10 to 50% of the tags for some of the very prime units and animals to non-residents. That’s nonsense on every level. Residents deserve more priority than that.

Never mind the fact that we don’t even want to hint at opening PR for that kind of change. Politicians always like to add in fat to bills and we’d be open to getting hosed.


I’m a hard NO for every one of your suggestions.
 

Rob5589

WKR
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Sep 6, 2014
Messages
6,243
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N CA
Really? In most states, it wouldn’t change much if anything for residents. Might piss off one or two outfitters, but that’s it. Plenty of outfitters seem to get by just fine without the welfare in CO.
Sure it would. It could take tags away (potentially) from residents. Take a look at WY and MT, you'll find that outfitters have a ton of clout within those states.
 
OP
B
Joined
Nov 26, 2018
Messages
1,198
Location
Ohio
I don’t see any of your suggestions that make any measurable change. Most states are 10% or more already, and few charge much more than 10x for non residents. Certainly not enough more that tag cost is a major cost to an out of state hunt.

And your 1-5 tags, then 1 tag every other year, would have states giving 10 to 50% of the tags for some of the very prime units and animals to non-residents.

Never mind the fact that we don’t even want to hunt at opening PR for that kind of change. Politicians always like to add in fat to bills and we’d be open to getting hosed.


I’m a hard NO for every one of your suggestions.
Wasn’t intended to make any measurable change aside from getting rid of the outfitter preference BS.

More or less a stop gap attempt to keep things from getting any worse. Again we’re headed in a sad direction for American hunting, but everyone is too shortsighted and selfish to see that apparently.
 

frank church guy

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Jan 19, 2022
Messages
260
the problem is state to state. Texas is all private. Ohio I will never hunt. I understand everyone complaining about wilderness and federal tax payer lands. It makes sense to me. But as far nonresident hunters, no. If you want to hunt in state, play by there rules, Yes Idaho has a hell of lot of wilderness, all open to the public to hunt. But if you are not a resident to bad. I can't go hunt in texas or ohio. Even if I bought a tag for those states, I really couldn't hunt. Maybe us out here in the western states should start bitching about access to hunt areas in your states.
Remember your tax dollars don't go to state lands they go to federal lands. Things like us naval bases in lake ponderay (i know spelling), nuclear research centers(arco), federal airforce bases. Maybe if you all keep complaining will make the wilderness areas state run, just like your eastern states, I have 7 pp points in wyoming for antelope. I am not bitching because i cant draw. I am waiting for the place I want to hunt. It is wyoming rules. I understand and if I want to hunt there I play by there rules. If I don't want to play, them I don't hunt there. I don't live back east/ I have no say in how eastern states set there rules. If I want to hunt there I play by there rules. If you want to hunt in wyoming, play by there rules or move there, be involved in the community and help make the rules.
 

Gobbler36

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Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
2,359
Location
None your business
I think the vast majority of us posting here believe in a few fundamental things, one being access to our vast federal lands for recreational opportunities as well as state management of wildlife via the North American model. However we’re seeing a worrying trend in American hunting, specifically non resident big game hunting opportunities are becoming more and more monetized, greatly benefiting the coffers of state fish and game agencies, subsidizing resident license sales, and giving increased preference to politically connected outfitters. This comes at great detriment to the average American hunter. It might benefit him to a minor degree if he is lucky enough to live in a state that has ample big game opportunities, but it comes at his great cost if he chooses to explore opportunities in the 49 other states.

Along with state management of course comes states rights. Bottom line the federal government has no right to come in and tell a state what to do with its management of wildlife outside the bounds of the ESA. In my mind nor should they. Likewise states should and obviously do give great preference to their residents through both costs of tags and opportunities to hunt. However in many states hunting as a non resident is becoming an onerous task out of reach of many. Most of these opportunities however occur on federal lands that the rest of the country in large part pays for and owns.

That said the federal government provides millions to the states each year through matching funds through the Pittman Robertson Act, the excise tax we pay for through hunting and fishing equipment. These funds are only allocated if states meet certain requirements such as keeping fish and game sales dollars out of the general fund and put back into wildlife management. (If I’m getting any of this wrong, apologies, I’m by no means an expert.)

I propose this be amended to at least give a left lateral limit to all states with their non resident opportunity.

“A state shall not receive Pittman Robertson Funds if they,

1. Charge a non resident more than 10 times the resident cost of a hunting, fishing, or trapping license or tag valid on federal land.

2. Allocate less than 10% of all limited entry tags to non resident hunters or fishermen valid on federal land. If 6-10 tags are allocated for said unit, at least one of those tags shall go to a non resident. If 1-5 tags are allocated, at least one tag must be issued to a nonresident every other season. If tags valid on federal land are sold over the counter to residents, at least 10% of the sale amount for the previous year must be provided to nonresidents.

3. Provides any differing rules or regulations to nonresident hunters, fishermen, or trappers compared to that required of residents while utilizing federal land. (Eliminates nonresident guide requirements on federal land or wilderness areas.)

4. Proves any preference in drawing to outfitted non resident hunters for tags valid on federal land, or allows outfitted hunters to purchase additional points compared non outfitted hunters.

5. If preference or bonus points are utilized in tag drawing process, these points will not cost more than 10 times that of the resident cost, or 10% of the nonresident tag cost, whichever is less.”

Bottom line the idea above is a dumb fireman’s idea of how to tackle the problem after a finger or two of bourbon. I’m sure it’s far from perfect, and I anxiously await it getting torn to bits by people who are way smarter than me. But it’s at least an attempt at tackling an issue that is barreling down the neck of all of us who enjoy hunting all across this great country. Maybe it will start a conversation that refines itself into something good for all of us.

I’m sure some residents of western states can’t wait to angrily type into their keyboards or smartphones after reading this. That’s fine, all I ask is you stop for a moment and consider the big picture. We’re all non residents in 49 other states after all.
Dude you can come camp on public lands anytime you want and get use outta all that land you’re paying for, but when it comes to the taking of the STATES resources well their first priority is to manage those animals for the RESIDENTS of said state. tough cookie you don’t like it but its the way it should be, you’re right we are all nonresidents and I deal with other states all the time that are trimming down opportunity, I don’t like it but i understand mostly that its best for their residents.
Come camp away my friend

If you wanna be mad go blame all these you tubers and know how shows and magazine that got everyone interested in hunting multiple states that put a strain on the resources and the drawing systems. All in the name of sponsorship. They are the ones hurting your opportunity
 
OP
B
Joined
Nov 26, 2018
Messages
1,198
Location
Ohio
Sure you can, the opportunity to move in pursuit of happiness is one of the main things that has made this country great. YOU are the only one standing in your own way.

Punishing an entity for not appeasing your wants is un-American. It is the state's rights to manage the wildlife within its borders in whatever way it sees fit. That has NOTHING to do with land access. The two are unequivocally unrelated. ALL states know the parameters by which they must ALL perform in order to realize earned PR dollars, and have made decisions based on those parameters having weighed the pros and cons. Changing those parameters in response to a state's rightful wildlife management decisions in an effort to influence is an unethical method of reward/punishment. In the case of your proposal, it is intended to change the rules after the fact to punish in hopes you will get your way.
You are more than welcome to do whatever the hell you want with your state, you just no longer get a shit ton of money from federal tax dollars (the vast majority of which are collected from non residents) if you don’t provide at least 10% of your hunting opportunities to non residents.

That seems more that reasonable.
 
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