I understand the point, but it's not completly accurate, if people follow Randy on here (or anyone) they get notified when they post. But not a 135K
Unfollowing Hunting Social Media Will Make Hunting Better: Matt Rinella Essay
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Idaho_Potato
WKR
I know you're kidding but the unit posting that goes on the day tags go on sale or a draw result gets posted is borderline OBNOXIOUS these days.There’s a list of words that Ryan can ban from ever being said on the site, sounds like we should put the word “unit“ in there. @Ryan Avery ? Yes? No?
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- #363
No one disagreed with you that Rokslide is social media, and I wouldn’t say you got hammered for it.
It was pointed out to you that the way people use Rokslide is different from how an influencer posts content that is intended to gain them followers/sponsors with fame and monetization as their motive.
Sure, but I wouldn’t say it’s completely different. Rokslide has been very good to me in helping me sell my book and getting people to read my articles. So while it’s a different monster, it’s still “social media“
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browning2480
WKR
Hammered was an exaggeration, but the pointing out of how it is different is relative.
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With the character limit on Rokslide, I've quoted your last paragraph, as I think that summarizes your questions and critique. I will try my best to answer and I appreciate that you are honestly seeking an answer.
A few pieces of background. I started applying in every western state in 1995. I made a lot of personal financial sacrifices to start doing that, knowing my interest in hunting intriguing landscapes would be best served by building points in states where it helped. I subscribed to Bowhunter Magazine at the time. Dwight Schuh wrote an article about point systems evolving in the west. Then I read an article by Jim Zumbo in Outdoor Life that explained the Colorado system that had only started a few years prior. From that, I gleaned information from a media source the allowed me to start working toward hunts I otherwise would not have drawn over the last 25 years.
Was I supposed to close the gate after I got that information that was helpful to my drawing tags? Everyone of us learned somewhere along the way that these opportunities exist and finally dispelled the myth that you need to be filthy rich or hire an outfitter.
When does it cross the line from helpful information to too much information? My experience in getting tons of comments over the years is that when it is "new information" to someone, it is helpful. Once they have that information and they want less competition, it crosses the line to "too much information."
I think it is intellectually honest to ask, and intellectually dishonest to deny, "Why is it OK for me/you/us to have the information and knowledge today, but we should suppress distribution of that information that could benefit hunters who don't have that information?"
I pose that as a serious question that we all must ask. I would ask the same to Matt and likely will the next time I see him. I would go even further and ask, "Why should nobody else get to hunt these public lands other than those of us who are hunting them today?"
It's easy to see some hypocrisy or selfishness in comments that can be summarized as, "I've been hunting these public lands for years and I'm not part of the problem, but when someone else comes to hunt those lands, its a problem that we need to do something about?
Maybe I'm in the minority, but that seems rather selfish. And, I suspect a close introspection by most would have to admit a bit of selfishness in the frustration of having to share the lands and the tags with others, especially those newcomers who might not have been born into a hunting culture. Hell, when I bump into people on public land, I might kick the dirt and complain, but I quickly realize they are probably thinking the same thing about me being there on that day.
I want better draw odds. I want less competition for tags and hunting space. I want to hunt more often. We all do, but there is a lot of "I want" in that honesty. And when we take action to express the "I want" desires, I understand it, but I also see the selfishness it includes, even when I find myself feeling that way.
Point creep is surely a factor of today's western hunting. I do videos on point creep every year and I will be doing another one for release in January. What are the causes of point creep beyond more awareness and information, something I agree with you contributes to increased demand?
- Reduced herd numbers for most species, resulting in far fewer tags? Certainly
- Displacement of hunters from previously accessible private lands? Yes.
- Lost access putting more pressure on units with ample public land? Yes
- Is increase the rapid in western state resident populations changing allocation of opportunity and therefore point creep? Yes
I could add a lot more items adding to point creep, something that has increased every year since I started in applying in multiple states in 1995. It is going to happen so long as humans continue to breed like rabbits and more people move to western states.
So, since your question asks of me and my justification, here goes, knowing it might not be what folks want to hear.
My response, and one I think is lacking in Matt's comments, is that as our population grows, especially resident population of western states, efforts toward increased public access and better conservation are paramount. There is no greater cause to the future of hunting than access and conservation, at least in my opinion. Maybe I will be proven wrong, but in my 30 years of advocacy each year those two points increase in my priority. That is why my personal time and much of our content is focused on access and putting more elk in the hills, sheep on the mountain, and ducks in the air.
It comes down to some decisions, both collectively and individually - Are we going to fight over our piece of the smaller pie or try to make a bigger pie? Each person will make their own decision for each of the many different topics that come before them.
Those who have been through the B-school curriculums know the theories about abundance thinkers versus scarcity thinkers. The summary of that is people are programmed in two different ways; either to spend their efforts fighting for their share of a shrinking resource (focus on cutting expenses) or they spend their efforts working to increase the size of the resource (focus on increasing revenues). That theory applies in a lot of places other than just business.
For me, and I know some don't like this, our WHY of building advocates requires people to get out in the field and build that connection to public lands as a valued place that they are willing to defend and advocate for. To do that, requires providing information that gets them in the field, just like I got from Dwight and Jim and just like everyone of us got somewhere, somehow, along our path of western hunting.
This might piss people off even more, but I'm going to continue providing information that helps people get out and hunt these places I've been blessed to hunt. That's what I set out to do when I started these platforms. That's why I've worked this as an unpaid second job for the last fourteen years. That's why I've sunk a piss pot full of money into this effort. Not because I give a damn about likes, views, shares, or whatever. I want more access, more game, and new people coming to the fold to replace old farts like me who are not long for this earth. When the politicians come for the lands or the game, I want more people connected to hunting those lands and who will stand up against those efforts.
Many ask why I would provide information that could make my draw odds worse. Why I would want to have hunters out on these public lands. The simple answer for me, is that it is not about me and my opportunity. It is about making sure hunting continues long after I'm gone and there will always be public land for people to hunt on.
That's my honest answer in the allowed characters, knowing I'm probably going to get flamed for it. I appreciate you asking.
As to the point of CA, WA, OR, I'll address those in a later post. Same with @cnelk comments on KS.
With the exception of E-Mail...we can say just about anything that allows us to communicate, share pics and otherwise communicate with lots of people inside of and outside of our circles could be labeled social. Forums are for sure in that category.
Sure, to a certain degree it’s social media, but there’s a fine line between informational resources and self-promotion/sales. I’d put forums in the informational camp for the most part. They’re regular dudes bouncing ideas and experience off each other. It’s the same thing you’d do in person with someone you’re trying to gain knowledge from.
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- #369
Not trying to argue with you, and again, no one is debating that this website is social media.
However, you’re the owner of Rokslide, and how you use this sight is different from how members who aren’t paying you to advertise or promote their products and services use this sight.
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- #370
I don't think your arguing, and point taken. I do have privilege on here for sure. but quite a few people become known on here like other social media was my point.
and as said, by others, if you want to screw up draw odds, post a hot unit on Rokslide.
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To this point, it's a pretty easy explanation.
Those states you mention are not a good value to any non-residents interested in western hunting, unless they have money to throw at every possibility. These states have all reduced non-resident tag percentages to such a low degree that I bailed on them a long time ago and left my points on the table. I understand those states had to do that in order to keep resident opportunity the highest priority in the face of growing resident populations. I don't fault them for doing that. But, that comes with changes to what value they represent.
I'm not going to encourage people to apply in places that are a bad value. I'm not going to encourage the hunter from Indiana to drive through Wyoming and Idaho to hunt elk in Oregon. It makes no sense. A non-resident would be better off buying raffle tickets for a hunt raffle with one of the conservation groups than to buy non-refundable licenses and application fees in those states. Just a fact of costs and probabilities.
I was approached by a group who has/had the vending contract for draw systems in one of those states, asking me to produce videos and content about what a great state that is for non-residents. I declined. Not something I believe is a good value, so I'm not going to promote it, regardless of any financial benefits. Just my stubborn ways.
As to the midwest and eastern states, the amount of public land is very small relative to the western states and the topic of public land transfer and disposal is hardly an issue in most of those states. And when we think about how the video or podcast would unfold, it would be about :30 seconds, "Go to the hardware store and buy your deer tag." It's that simple in most of those states for the species they allow non-residents to apply for. I suspect most folks can figure that out.
Selecting what states we cover in our explanations is a function of where the best value lies. All hunters have to make the decision. I do a video each year of how to get the most value, based on what species someone has as highest priority and how to get value in the short/mid/long-term. In none of that analysis do the midwest or eastern states make the list, nor do CA, WA, or OR.
Maybe you apply in those states. If you do you've made the assessment that it makes sense for your budget and your priorities. I hope you draw.
OregonSteeler
WKR
Rokslide is a focused hunting website. Robby, your book and articles are focused towards seasoned hunters. People who come to this site are already dedicated hunters.
YouTube and Instagram are viewed/used by literally billions of people. And those social media platforms are deliberately coded to "cross-pollinate" different users. When a hunter likes a video or pic, that information is also boomeranged into dozens/hundreds of followers in that hunter's user group; which many are probably not hunters themselves. If any of those followers view and like that hunting grip and grin picture/vid; guess what, it's now spreading out into an entire network of non-hunters. And one wonders why there are so many people trying out hunting for the first time. A global pandemic and wealth within the US that's never been before, doesn't help the cause. So the only barrier to entry is tag limits..and thank goodness for that.
So yes, Rokslide is a social media platform...but all platforms are NOT created equal. Matt's point is "influencers" focusing mainly on these YouTube and Instagram users who've NEVER hunted before, and bringing them into this lifestyle. And a lot of them are making money at it along the way by selling products with their brand/logo slapped on it.
....................?
Edit from two seconds of search function:
New to backcountry hunting!
Just starting the gear planning stages of a Wyoming elk hunt next September. Any do’s and dont’s? Save money here? Spend money there? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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rokslide.com/forums/threads/new-to-hunting-nebraska.211780/
New to Western Hunting Boot recommendations.
I am new to western hunting and planning my first trip out west from Wisconsin. We are going to do a Colorado elk hunt. My question is i have Ultralight Hunters by Meindl (800 gram) currently for whitetail hunts back here that keep my feet warm. My question with going into the mountains...
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New to western hunting
I’m from Ohio looking to get into backcountry and western hunting in general
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EastMT
WKR
Having moved back to Montana after being gone since 2000, I’m pretty shocked at the changes. People in every pullout, a little tiny block of BLM, 2 trucks or more. I thoroughly did no enjoy hunting season this year due to the crowds.
I threaded my way back in several miles around private, following BLM to get away. Got down there and here’s 4 guys from PA in a tent, hunting a 1 sq mile creek bottom.
I think I’m going to put away the rifle from now on, skip the crowds. I don’t go out in the woods to find people to talk to. The last 2 weekends of hunting season my wife said I didn’t make plans so you can go hunting. I said nah, I’m not going, I’ll wait till it over and go coyote hunting. Feel the same way about next year, I’d rather coyote hunt alone than fight crowds for deer.
I threaded my way back in several miles around private, following BLM to get away. Got down there and here’s 4 guys from PA in a tent, hunting a 1 sq mile creek bottom.
I think I’m going to put away the rifle from now on, skip the crowds. I don’t go out in the woods to find people to talk to. The last 2 weekends of hunting season my wife said I didn’t make plans so you can go hunting. I said nah, I’m not going, I’ll wait till it over and go coyote hunting. Feel the same way about next year, I’d rather coyote hunt alone than fight crowds for deer.
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got it, thanks
I imagine that someday we might thank those influencers for those new hunters as I believe our right to exist as hunters will be seriously challenged.
We have tons of new hunters on here. If we still had the same 500 hard-cores as when we started, Ryan and i would have hit the delete button years ago, like other forums have.
Kind of damned if we do, damned if we don't scenario under that reasoning. But I can't image we will ever be thanking influencers for increasing the number of hunters.
Coming from someone who shamelessly uses this website for information, though.
wait for it...
OregonSteeler
WKR
Touche........................?
Edit from two seconds of search function:
New to backcountry hunting!
Just starting the gear planning stages of a Wyoming elk hunt next September. Any do’s and dont’s? Save money here? Spend money there? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
rokslide.com/forums/threads/new-to-hunting-nebraska.211780/
New to Western Hunting Boot recommendations.
I am new to western hunting and planning my first trip out west from Wisconsin. We are going to do a Colorado elk hunt. My question is i have Ultralight Hunters by Meindl (800 gram) currently for whitetail hunts back here that keep my feet warm. My question with going into the mountains...
New to western hunting
I’m from Ohio looking to get into backcountry and western hunting in general
But I also doubt they got the very initial "bug" of wanting to elk hunt by fumbling across Rokslide. They came here AFTER they watched BRO or ElkShape or whoever's YouTube video and wanted to become an elk hunter.
How many YouTube videos are about chukar hunting vs. elk hunting? Put more chukar YT vids up and that will second-handedly flow to higher participation in upland hunting focused web forums.
the part of his essay I read said something along the line that hunting license numbers are hard to find or trust
USFW site says Idaho had the following "paid hunting license holders"
in 1985, 249,974
in 2003, 245,358
in 2019, 295,281
in 2020, 288,61
in 2021 275,244
Those numbers seem believable to me, an 18% swing from low to high (but decreasing the last two years to only 10% increase now)
I really don't see that many more people out as a total. I see more people going deeper, but that leaves a void somewhere else if hunter numbers are about the same.
Utah had 220,000 deer licenses in the 1980's, I think that down around 100K now.
Yet i read words like "massive increase" in hunter numbers.
USFW site says Idaho had the following "paid hunting license holders"
in 1985, 249,974
in 2003, 245,358
in 2019, 295,281
in 2020, 288,61
in 2021 275,244
Those numbers seem believable to me, an 18% swing from low to high (but decreasing the last two years to only 10% increase now)
I really don't see that many more people out as a total. I see more people going deeper, but that leaves a void somewhere else if hunter numbers are about the same.
Utah had 220,000 deer licenses in the 1980's, I think that down around 100K now.
Yet i read words like "massive increase" in hunter numbers.
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