The Low Bar: did Matt Rinella get it wrong?

[Bigwindymt]

I have been hashing out the dilemma of exploding hunter numbers with family and friends for about five years now. Why have the number of hunters in the west blown up all of a sudden? The Matt Rinella / social media thread is 60+ pages by now, with the main thrust of Rinella's argument (especially in the podcasts) being that social media promotion is generating too much interest in hunting, thus driving overcrowding on public land. I can't help but disagree.

I'm not sure Matt Rinella really nailed the source of the problem, but hey, thanks for getting people talking about it! It is unfortunate that so many hard feelings have come from this; it must be tough being caught in the catch 22 of making a living doing the thing you love while simultaneously being accused of destroying the quality and accessibility of that very same thing. Social media, and hunting media in general, doesn't seem to be the problem in and of itself, as far as promoting hunting to folks who would otherwise be uninterested.
Plenty of people are already interested. Hunting shows and grip and grins are not the problem.

It seems that the "how-to hunt" nature of so much of social media/YouTube content, coupled with tools that take the leg work and investment of time out of scouting and route-finding, have dramatically lowered the bar for entry into (backcountry) hunting success. Talk to just about any hunter for five minutes or more and they will tell you all about it.

You no longer have to be able to read a map, call a local biologist, visit a county surveyor's office, learn basic outdoor skills, scout and pattern an area to know the habits of the animals there (or not), listen to actual animals call and practice accordingly. Simply subscribe to Elk 101, tune in to Randy Newberg, Born and Raised, Remi Warren, Hush, or the Hunting Public a few times, and don't forget your OnX super elite membership and you are in business. I don't even want to touch what is happening to the outfitting business and locking up private land access.

I love learning new things and getting new tools to make hunting safer and better, but we've gone too far, folks. Yes, I'm part of the problem, but not sure what to do about it. Any thoughts?

 

[TreeStandAthlete]

I don't think Matt's argument is that more hunters is bad as much as it is that all of these social media personalities are being disingenuous about "why" they want to recruit more hunters. They say it's this or that but really they just want a larger customer base for their business and that money driven model is what's ruining hunting. Public land and game belong to the public, not just folks who's Dad hunted, or people who started hunting before x age. He states many times in the blood origin podcast that he has no problem with anyone new or seasoned hunting for horn, hide, or personal enjoyment. It's people hunting for bragging rights, money, or influence that he sees as the problem and I tend to agree with him, in all things, not just hunting.

 

[Billy Goat]

Someone else said it, but it's a lot of truth to it.


It's the economy stupid.



When you see the amount of money that is getting spent on hunting, it's evident that people have a fair amount of disposable income, or debt.


Fact is people have the money to spend on the trips to the mountains, where before I think it was out of reach for many. That coupled with the huge amount of information that is out there now for people to figure out how to do it.


It's not single source.

 

[RockinRam96]

Hmm… it’s a tough one. Does Matt make a good argument for social media being a contributor, yes. Is it the sole “problem” I don’t know about that. I think exchange of information and the ease of that information is also a huge influence.

Hell I remember when I started hunting and I ask my grandpa how I could learn more, he handed an index of about 12 books all’s boot deer and deer hunting.

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[Customweld]

Someone else said it, but it's a lot of truth to it.


It's the economy stupid.



When you see the amount of money that is getting spent on hunting, it's evident that people have a fair amount of disposable income, or debt.


Fact is people have the money to spend on the trips to the mountains, where before I think it was out of reach for many. That coupled with the huge amount of information that is out there now for people to figure out how to do it.


It's not single source.

There is a lot of truth to this. It wasn’t all that long ago that Idaho was offering NR deer and elk tags at a discounted rate. I don’t remember exactly how many years they did this, but I think it started around 2008.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I have very little respect or admiration for TV hunters, I care even less about what the brother of a TV hunter thinks.

 

[Okhotnik]

I have very little respect or admiration for TV hunters, I care even less about what the brother of a TV hunter thinks.

yep

 

[Spoonbill]

I don’t think Matt factored in population growth, both in the US as a whole and in western states. More people mean more hunters, and more people moving to Montana means more hunters. People have been writing about hunting out west for over a 100 years. Looking at pictures in a magazine isn’t much different than looking at pictures on your phone. I think Matt is looking for a scapegoat instead of accepting the fact that the population is increasing and people are migrating to new states.

 

[Desk Jockey]

No disrespect to Matt, but I think he oscillates between condemning social media, overcrowding, purity of motives for hunting and a few other points (Rectal health???) He blames social media for contributing to overcrowding so that argument bends back to that as perhaps a central issue.

I can’t help but think that he is not a native of Montana and transplanted their years ago, I assume, in part to pursue Western hunting. So I guess in a way, he is really complaining about the new hunters that showed up sometime between when he arrived in Montana and now. I am sure when he and his brother showed up a stared hunting in Montana way back when there was someone complaining about them.

it sort of reminds me of a quote from his brother that says something like: there are two kinds of hunters (1) the guys i am with and (2) those other assholes.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Seems like he’s sad that more people want to do the things he got to do. I’d imagine lots of people watched his brother and him on TV then got into hunting so really it’s his fault. This is common though. Like dick prorneke, he wanted to share how awesome his life was in the alaskan wilderness but he was strongly against anybody else doing the same thing as him.

These people are all a joke and the fact that they are taken seriously and their opinions have any meaning is even more of a joke.

 

[TreeStandAthlete]

it sort of reminds me of a quote from his brother that says something like: there are two kinds of hunters (1) the guys i am with and (2) those other assholes.

You gotta admit though, when those other assholes are wearing MTN OPS flat bills and filming Instagram stories in the middle of the basin it makes you hate them just a little bit more.

 

[svivian]

Number of hunters has remained constant but the amount of opportunity and their ability to take advantage of it now versus 40 years ago is what has changed. In the state of Colorado I technically can Kill two elk, a deer and a bear every year if I wanted to alone not including all small game hunting.

Then add in the power of the internet that shows us new and exciting places that we can now hunt and the doors open even more. There were not nearly as many people driving across the country to hunt elk because it wasn't a realistic option back then. Now a days folks don't blink and eye at it.

As stated in my post in the other thread that was not answered by @Mattrinella, why isn't he holding each states wildlife agencies accountable for the amount of tags they are issuing? They are just as much if not more responsible than social media influencers. It would not be possible for them to create enough content to make a living if opportunity was limited.

I have been thinking hard about where I stand on this issue as I am not a social media user besides here on Rokslide. The numbers of hunters are not supporting what is being stated but as a Colorado resident I do see changes in the amount of folks on trailheads on the availability of tags.

Previously I could buy a cow tag the day before season if I was unable to fill my archery tag. Then it was I had to buy it in August during left over. Now I have to apply for it as a second draw.

These are just my thoughts on the issue and I have found several perspectives interesting and thought provoking.

 

[Jbehredt]

Hunting was cooler before it was cool.

 

[chutinlead]

I can say I'm on the other side of this and just got back into hunting. I started with my dad when I was 12 and had very little success and have only been back at it since 2019.

My buddy and I both didn't have great experiences hunting growing up and finally decided to dive in and learn it the hard way.

Except it isn't as hard now with OnX and more disposable income for gear/trips. It's a lot of fun and sure the first year sucked. The second year we both filled both our doe tags on opening morning. Finally got my first buck Mule deer and Antelope this year. Hoping to have success drawing/hunting Elk next year.

It's been a lot of fun and made easier by these resources.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

All the publicity, podcasts, tv shows, social media have added to it. Hell, I have. Friend ( a doctor), who listened to Jason Hairston and Brendan burns on the Joe rogan podcast like….6 years ago? He had the income to blow so what did he do? Bought all sorts of kuiu and booked a guided trip to Alaska, then another to Canada, and he’s done the same a dozen times since. He’s become a true elitist hunter who looks down on the average Joe even though he’s probably spent half a million dollars or more on his new hobby.

 

[TreeStandAthlete]

All the publicity, podcasts, tv shows, social media have added to it. Hell, I have. Friend ( a doctor), who listened to Jason Hairston and Brendan burns on the Joe rogan podcast like….6 years ago? He had the income to blow so what did he do? Bought all sorts of kuiu and booked a guided trip to Alaska, then another to Canada, and he’s done the same a dozen times since. He’s become a true elitist hunter who looks down on the average Joe even though he’s probably spent half a million dollars or more on his new hobby.

The one thing I will always be thankful for Matt for is giving us the perfect description of the "pay to play" outfit only hunter.

"It's like a kid that goes to Disney Land and takes a ride on space mountain and then comes home thinking he's an astronaut".

 

[Dos XX]

Everyone that moved here after me is an asshole is an old sentiment.

 

[loganwayne]

Someone else said it, but it's a lot of truth to it.


It's the economy stupid.



When you see the amount of money that is getting spent on hunting, it's evident that people have a fair amount of disposable income, or debt.


Fact is people have the money to spend on the trips to the mountains, where before I think it was out of reach for many. That coupled with the huge amount of information that is out there now for people to figure out how to do it.


It's not single source.

then add in alot of companies realized you didnt have to be in the office 24/7 and dont care when you do your work as long as it is done by this date. well im spending 4 days working 16 hrs a day at home then taking two weeks off.

 

[blackdawg]

I have been hashing out the dilemma of exploding hunter numbers with family and friends for about five years now. Why have the number of hunters in the west blown up all of a sudden? The Matt Rinella / social media thread is 60+ pages by now, with the main thrust of Rinella's argument (especially in the podcasts) being that social media promotion is generating too much interest in hunting, thus driving overcrowding on public land. I can't help but disagree.

I'm not sure Matt Rinella really nailed the source of the problem, but hey, thanks for getting people talking about it! It is unfortunate that so many hard feelings have come from this; it must be tough being caught in the catch 22 of making a living doing the thing you love while simultaneously being accused of destroying the quality and accessibility of that very same thing. Social media, and hunting media in general, doesn't seem to be the problem in and of itself, as far as promoting hunting to folks who would otherwise be uninterested.
Plenty of people are already interested. Hunting shows and grip and grins are not the problem.

It seems that the "how-to hunt" nature of so much of social media/YouTube content, coupled with tools that take the leg work and investment of time out of scouting and route-finding, have dramatically lowered the bar for entry into (backcountry) hunting success. Talk to just about any hunter for five minutes or more and they will tell you all about it.

You no longer have to be able to read a map, call a local biologist, visit a county surveyor's office, learn basic outdoor skills, scout and pattern an area to know the habits of the animals there (or not), listen to actual animals call and practice accordingly. Simply subscribe to Elk 101, tune in to Randy Newberg, Born and Raised, Remi Warren, Hush, or the Hunting Public a few times, and don't forget your OnX super elite membership and you are in business. I don't even want to touch what is happening to the outfitting business and locking up private land access.

I love learning new things and getting new tools to make hunting safer and better, but we've gone too far, folks. Yes, I'm part of the problem, but not sure what to do about it. Any thoughts?

It’s nationwide wide folks,everyone needs to get over their mine,mine,mine mentality pretty quickly , I have been from Key West to Alaska hunting and fishing with many stops along the way the last 10 years. Talk about rapid changes in the outdoors! We as a group are at a point where we need to face the facts, we all have become To GOOD at doing the things that we love to do with the tools at our disposal, technological advancements at every turn have changed the recreational hunting and fishing experience in ways we never dreamed. Hate to bust the micro manager’s bubble but imho some peaceful serious round table discussions by everyone we identify as leaders in each respective outdoor community needs to occur regarding how we are going to keep our traditions alive . Maybe the time has arrived where we self impose restrictions on ourselves again, shouldn’t we look up to those who use their wits and skills as an outdoorsman rather than those who measure their success based on whatever the fancy new gadget of the day is posted up for public consumption? The reality is we can’t lose opportunities at this crossroads, plenty of people that hate our kind will strike to rid the world of us permanently. Everyone best be aware or get aware quickly of who the wolves in sheeps clothing are! Look no further than the myriad of laws passed and attempts to eliminate hunting seasons for many species. Many many groups are beating the drum for our demise!


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[Mt Al]

So I guess in a way, he is really complaining about the new hunters that showed up sometime between when he arrived in Montana and now. I am sure when he and his brother showed up a stared hunting in Montana way back when there was someone complaining about them.

I've watch some meat eater but don't follow, read, listen to pod casts, etc. for the nice hunting hipster business these guys have built - so I don't know if this applies to the . However, you NAILED it for a vast majority of people who move here, Idaho, Wyoming, etc..

Case in point: a physical therapist moved to Montana a few years ago was noticeably jittery, upset, anxious and I asked him what's wrong? He says that all his camping, hunting, outdoor places are overrun with new people, "where are they all coming from??". I not gently reminded him that he moved here a just few years ago, the hired 25 employees (new residents or creating new residents), THAT's where they came from, and WTF made him think he didn't overrun someone else's spot?

Truly insane - but self righteous, there's no law against dumb assumptions, gets him attention, etc..