New house bill for Idaho

[5MilesBack]

It wasn't marked because before they bought it public access was allowed.

my understanding is the old law said you needed to post it, if you wanted it posted- sounds like the previous owner was a timber company that allowed hunting/other recreation, so they didn't feel the need to post it

So what exactly does the current law say? You don't have to post it if you don't want to? If it's not posted currently do people have the right to trespass if they want? Seems there isn't a hard-fast law currently on posting.

 

[5MilesBack]

This bill puts an awful lot of risk on my side, even using a GPS unit.

And in many states we've lived with that exact same risk for our, and our parent's, and our grandparent's, etc lifetimes. It isn't a big deal. It certainly isn't the private landowner's responsibility to reduce other's risk, or help them with their own responsibility in staying off private property. Take 100% of that responsibility on your own shoulders, and accept the consequences of your actions. If that means buying a GPS, or researching county records, or carrying maps, or steering well clear of fences or shown boundaries, that should be 100% on the person that doesn't own the private property in question. I'm not sure how anyone goes out hunting and wanders around aimlessly having no clue where they are unless they see property signs.

 

[mtnwrunner]

This thread is killing me. We should be talking about something non controversial like whether you should own an AR..........
If it is PRIVATE PROPERTY stay off of it!!!!!!! Unless you have permission to be there. There, ain't that simple?

Randy

 

[Mtnboy]

Here is BHA Idaho's response for those interested:

Last week, Representative Judy Boyle (Midvale) introduced House Bill 536. HB 536 looks to amend existing Trespass code sections Title 36, recreational trespass and Title 18, criminal trespass and consolidate them into Idaho Code 6-202.
Rep. Boyle’s bill removes landowner posting requirements found in today’s code sections. The current posting and signage requirements have been relatively unchanged since 1987, which has created an understanding of public vs. private property among generations of hunters, anglers and trappers. Changing this will cause immense confusion for a very long time. The orange paint posting system is the most well-known way of posting private property to all hunters across the U.S.
It is important to note that annually thousands of students graduate from Idaho’s Hunter Education program. Those students are taught, as responsible hunters Idaho’s trespass law in its current form while also being encouraged to always determine land ownership and ask permission regardless of posting.
Rep. Boyle’s bill seeks to change the penalty section of Trespass; creating a civil violation with incremental penalties dependent on how many times you have been caught trespassing. The current penalty structure for recreational and criminal trespass allows for the greatest deterrence and judicial discretion. Both code sections are misdemeanors allowing for a magistrate to impose a fine from $25.00 up to $1000.00 and up to six months in jail. Idaho Code Title 36 takes one step further by providing for mandatory revocation of a hunter/angler/trapper license privileges if found guilty of trespassing. Rep. Boyle’s bill wants to make you a felon if you are caught trespassing for a third time.
In 2012 the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service estimated that Idaho had 447,000 anglers, 247,000 hunters. These anglers spent an estimated $422 million while hunters spent $478 million all in Idaho. (2011 National Survey of Fishing, Hunting, and Wildlife-Associated Recreation—Idaho). Access has been cited as the number one barrier to entry into hunting. HB 536 unnecessarily creates more of a burden on hunters by creating a sense of unease as to where they are and further heightens the barrier to entry; potentially negatively impacting Idaho’s economy.
As written, this bill makes it trespass for a citizen to drive up a private driveway to ask a landowner permission to hunt or fish.
As written, a hunter traveling on a public easement trail that wandered out of the easement for even a few feet could be guilty of trespass by not even leaving the trail!
As written, something as trivial as going in to a neighbors yard to pick up an errant toy would be trespass.
Sportsmen are respectfully asking for an opportunity to collaborate with landowners, the Idaho Department of Fish and Game and local law enforcement agencies, which we believe will result in a much cleaner bill that would have buy-in from a more diverse and representative group.
The bill is not yet scheduled for a hearing but may be heard on the house floor as early as next week. Please take a moment to contact your Representative and encourage them to vote NO on this bill. To determine who your representative is use this link,

Who’s My Legislator? – Idaho State Legislature

 

[Billinsd]

Excellent, well articulated response by Idaho bha!!!

 

[Broomd]

This thread is killing me. We should be talking about something non controversial like whether you should own an AR..........
If it is PRIVATE PROPERTY stay off of it!!!!!!! Unless you have permission to be there. There, ain't that simple?

Randy

Yep, plain and simple. And it's why I moved on here. At another forum this came up, and the overall take was largely what you posted above. KNOW YOUR BOUNDARIES AS A HUNTER!
I suspect that the other forum has older, more responsible guys on it (not meant to be a dis--there are some fantastic men and women here) and it likely has more landowners.

This boils down to the very issue that is plaguing our country. People want "their way, dammit!" whether they have a right to it or not.

 

[Mtnboy]

Yep, plain and simple. And it's why I moved on here. At another forum this came up, and the overall take was largely what you posted above. KNOW YOUR BOUNDARIES AS A HUNTER!
I suspect that the other forum has older, more responsible guys on it (not meant to be a dis--there are some fantastic men and women here) and it likely has more landowners.

This boils down to the very issue that is plaguing our country. People want "their way, dammit!" whether they have a right to it or not.

Ridiculous response.

Just because I don't see a reason to change a law that's been the same for 30 years over some Texas D-Bags then I'm all of a sudden "not responsible and want my way" ?? I also own multiple properties and I've also lived in Idaho my whole life, I didn't move here and then want to change things to suit my needs.....

How come the original law was put in to place after input from multiple user groups and landowners and Fish and Game and this law is being pushed through without input from virtually anyone? That doesn't seem odd to you?

 

[Randle]

Seems Boyle and Wilks brothers are the ones that want their way. It has been Idaho ' s way for 30 years and worked fine

 

[Ryan Avery]

I wish it was that simple. There are people on both sides that are not honest. And there are property lines that are **** up. The fact that some of you guys don't get that leads me to believe you haven't hunted in many areas in Idaho that public and private land checkerboard the landscape. It's really easy to get a ticket for trespassing, it's not so easy to fight it and win even if you are in the right. This law will just lead to more BS tickets and fewer people hunting which might be the goal. AND remember my wife's family are landowners and I have posted the shit out of it and caught trespassers that lie through there teeth. So I get both sides but this law is BS!

 

[Chucklehead]

Why are there so many on here claiming some kind of moral high ground by saying "know your boundaries! and nothing else matters!"
I find it strange that many here are making the huge leap that if:
You support some type mandatory private land postings you somehow support willful trespassing on un-marked private property on a the technicality of "well it isn't posted, so I can hunt there." That is just as ridiculous as someone who subscribes to that practice.

We can all agree that:
Un-Posted/ Marked Private ground DOES NOT make it public or give anyone the right to go there.
Each individual should do his/hers best a knowing where the boundaries are. And should have a means of reference (GPS, maps, etc) to ensure compliance.

I sympathize with you landowners that have or have had issues with trespassing in the past. However I would caution you, that if this passes I could make a strong argument that those problems would get worse before they would ever get better. And yes, marking property is a huge pain in the ass and yes some bad apples will still choose to ignore it no matter what you do. But I feel the whole intent of the law as its currently written is to make a very clear border of whats legal and what isn't. Thus making potential violations very clear. If you decide to forgo that, suddenly there is even more gray area. Which will cause more confusion and more frustration and less hunter involvement. This law was written for the convenience of the public at large at the inconvenience of the private property holder. Now a large enough private property holder is trying to legislate their way out of that inconvenience and put it on the public. Which is their right to do so.

To those worried about the "fringe" areas of the boundary lines. Keep your GPS tracks on and keep it handy. If you are confronted by law enforcement, show them your GPS tracks, show them the border lines. Show him you are doing your best to stay on public. I've heard several cases where an individual was accused of trespassing by a landowner and was confronted by law enforcement. He showed his is tracks for the day and the officer said "thank you very much" and went on his way. This way you have evidence and all the other party has is a story. This doesn't cover all circumstances, but it at least show you didn't have malicious intent.

 

[mtnwrunner]

Based on the number of responses reference this thread, maybe we should have some forethought on a rokslide defense fund.......

Randy

 

[Ryan Avery]

Based on the number of responses reference this thread, maybe we should have some forethought on a rokslide defense fund.......

Randy

You sound like a cop

 

[mfllood3800]

It is easy to determine by the position and stance of people in this thread who is hunted the backcountry in areas that are checkered and those who have not and it is also easy to see who the ranchers and large landowners are based on their position

I feel there is something wrong with this bill that is designated to remove hunters from certain areas and keep it minimized for their own benefit

I'm glad others have posted as well

I was getting tired of trying to explain myself And explain myself to the same people who kept trying to put me in a place I wasn't and make it sound like I was saying something that I wasn't

Why is it so often people don't hear what you're saying they hear what they think you're saying and refuse to listen

I thought rockslide was some sort of Holy Ground where ignorance didn't exist but I keep seeing over and over wrong opinions and responses to what many people say

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[HellsCanyon]

Emailed my reps. Passionate thread we have going here.

Mike

 

[Randle]

Yep I did last night, time will tell.

 

[mfllood3800]

I have said this before and I believe it is a valid point to say in this thread and that is hunting has changed from when I grew up 40 years ago

the investors saw a viable profit so they sent in the ones who can Market it , that generated sales which generated production which created profits and I almost feel like hunting is no longer just a right or a privilege it is now a business and once we have laws that start to pop up to promote profits in the business area of hunting we have entered into a dimension that we better fight to prevent

many people think that's overboard and reacting improperly

I've been a business owner for over 30 years and I've seen this play out in so many different ways it's the same Spirit of greed driving this that drove so many other businesses

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[Broomd]

Why are there so many on here claiming some kind of moral high ground by saying "know your boundaries! and nothing else matters!"
I find it strange that many here are making the huge leap that if:
You support some type mandatory private land postings you somehow support willful trespassing on un-marked private property on a the technicality of "well it isn't posted, so I can hunt there." That is just as ridiculous as someone who subscribes to that practice.

We can all agree that:
Un-Posted/ Marked Private ground DOES NOT make it public or give anyone the right to go there.
Each individual should do his/hers best a knowing where the boundaries are. And should have a means of reference (GPS, maps, etc) to ensure compliance.

I sympathize with you landowners that have or have had issues with trespassing in the past. However I would caution you, that if this passes I could make a strong argument that those problems would get worse before they would ever get better. And yes, marking property is a huge pain in the ass and yes some bad apples will still choose to ignore it no matter what you do. But I feel the whole intent of the law as its currently written is to make a very clear border of whats legal and what isn't. Thus making potential violations very clear. If you decide to forgo that, suddenly there is even more gray area. Which will cause more confusion and more frustration and less hunter involvement. This law was written for the convenience of the public at large at the inconvenience of the private property holder. Now a large enough private property holder is trying to legislate their way out of that inconvenience and put it on the public. Which is their right to do so.

To those worried about the "fringe" areas of the boundary lines. Keep your GPS tracks on and keep it handy. If you are confronted by law enforcement, show them your GPS tracks, show them the border lines. Show him you are doing your best to stay on public. I've heard several cases where an individual was accused of trespassing by a landowner and was confronted by law enforcement. He showed his is tracks for the day and the officer said "thank you very much" and went on his way. This way you have evidence and all the other party has is a story. This doesn't cover all circumstances, but it at least show you didn't have malicious intent.

This is a good posting. I get your gist here. And landowners hunt back country and checkerboard country too! BUT....we're all in this together whether one owns acreage or not. Anyone can be cited without responsible navigating! It isn't about moral high ground. Signs get vandalized, wind blown, etc. This law doesn't change any of that.

 

[JWP58]

This thread is killing me. We should be talking about something non controversial like whether you should own an AR..........
If it is PRIVATE PROPERTY stay off of it!!!!!!! Unless you have permission to be there. There, ain't that simple?

Randy

Ya over on another forum (where the commies hangout) theyre basically begging to turn in everything but bolt actions. Maybe there is common ground we could find.....trepassing with single shots...for the greater good and all...

 

[cuerro viejo]

It is easy to determine by the position and stance of people in this thread who is hunted the backcountry in areas that are checkered and those who have not and it is also easy to see who the ranchers and large landowners are based on their position

I feel there is something wrong with this bill that is designated to remove hunters from certain areas and keep it minimized for their own benefit

I'm glad others have posted as well

I was getting tired of trying to explain myself And explain myself to the same people who kept trying to put me in a place I wasn't and make it sound like I was saying something that I wasn't

Why is it so often people don't hear what you're saying they hear what they think you're saying and refuse to listen

I thought rockslide was some sort of Holy Ground where ignorance didn't exist but I keep seeing over and over wrong opinions and responses to what many people say

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

You have a bunch of different states represented on this board. I think this thread is more definitive In showing which people did and didn’t grow up under posted laws. Nothing more nothing less.

Some see this law as straight ticket to the pokey and others see it’s as a deterrent that gives Law Enforcement more options. Pretty much that simple, well there are a few that really just want to burn two men at the stake because they think the are Lucifer, but then again if any other big boys bought it like Ted turner, John Malone or State of Idaho there would be same pitchforks.

 

[mfllood3800]

Lol

Your post is correct a lot of different viewpoints here and each one comes from experience as they have seen through their perspective mine is not just hunting public land mine is not just being a landowner mine is not just being a business owner very successful I will add but mine is seeing it from multiple angles whenever politicians get involved to change laws let me rephrase that to revise laws that are already on the book it's for personal gain there are already no trespassing laws in Idaho why the change who's driving the change who's writing the Bill and who's paying for the bill that's what everybody whether you're from Texas Colorado Idaho Utah New York Pennsylvania does not matter should be asking themselves FYI we all grew up in states with posted land every single one of us and I bet most of us follow the laws of posted land again that's not what this is about

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