Wyoming Corner Crossing defense fund

[Bighorner]

How are you going to cross a corner legally with 10' posts 2" apart on each corner of the private?

I'm not saying anything about rights, fairness, etc. I'm saying that win or lose that landowner can stop it with very minimal work.

That becomes a matter of equity. Is your right unduly infringing on my right. You are simply being adversarial to your neighbors with no benefit to yourself.

 

[dirtytough]

That becomes a matter of equity. Is your right unduly infringing on my right. You are simply being adversarial to your neighbors with no benefit to yourself.

If putting a chain across public from private to private isn't, I believe that a couple posts on private property isn't either.

 

[Bighorner]

That's exactly why it is important that the courts take this up. That's the only place this is going to be resolved.

I would think both sides should want to see this issue resolved.

 

[realunlucky]

Access will only get more difficult going forward, now is the time to join the fight for a legal right to set foot on land that every American owns equally--
Corner crossing fundraiser

 

[wapitibob]

Yes, that's the crux of the agrument. The corner is finite point. It can not be crossed from public to public or private to private without crossing the air space of the other. A wall that goes from private to private will cross public land air space.

It was pointed out to me, airspace isn’t in the trespass statute.

 

[T28w]

The more I read about this corner crossing issue, the more I’m surprised it hasn’t been in the courts before now. I understand the non landowners perspective, but if the airspace isn’t the problem and you can clearly never set foot on private land, what leg is the landowner standing on? Does the law explicitly say you can’t cross corners?

 

[Bighorner]

The more I read about this corner crossing issue, the more I’m surprised it hasn’t been in the courts before now. I understand the non landowners perspective, but if the airspace isn’t the problem and you can clearly never set foot on private land, what leg is the landowner standing on? Does the law explicitly say you can’t cross corners?

The arguement hinges on the air space. Even if it is not specified in statue, the aurgemet is it atleast infered, although courts have made exceptions, such as air travel.

 

[mhabiger]

For those interested in general legal background on cases around accessing public lands across private you can search up the cases Camfield v. United States and Leo Sheep Co. v. United States. The first takes up fences around public land and the second access and easments.

My short research takeaway is a court case on corner crossing hasn't made its way through a state or federal court system yet. One law review paper actually cited WYGFD publication saying corner hoping wasnt criminal trespass in Wyoming

From a national level, outside of a favorable corner crossing case ruling in federal courts, it would take congressional action or BLM using eminent domain (for easments) to generally solve the access issue.

 

[Coveyleader]

Here’s your allowable error

 

[MichaelO]

Here’s your allowable error

Where did you find this?

 

[Coveyleader]

Where did you find this?

I work in this field surveying etc. On the other thread I went over GPS capabilities etc. And made this as an example.

anyways it shows what you’re working with using your phone to stay legal. This example on this thread, cap exposed, signs present pretty easy to stay on course. Others, trees etc, if you think your phone with OnX is going to keep you legal…… well talk to The experts that say WY doest issue tickets. Oh, and turn your tracks off because they will show you trespassed.

 

[Bighorner]

Just to play devil's advocate what if someone with survey grade was willing to go out and put a couple t post up if there were corners that may not be as visible, say a corner flush with the earth.

I think there are a ton of what ifs, right now it's time to watch the court.

 

[Coveyleader]

Just to play devil's advocate what if someone with survey grade was willing to go out and put a couple t post up if there were corners that may not be as visible, say a corner flush with the earth.

I think there are a ton of what ifs, right now it's time to watch the court.

As I mentioned on the other thread, there is a lot to staking out a corner. Clicking on the X in OnX, and say bring me there isn’t what I would call “safe”. In this case, the land owner with his signs makes it easy to stay legal.

Again, I hear people saying “I want to see the tracks” my rebuttal would be why? You would be better off turning your phone and just cross with your BS phone GPS and OnX.

 

[realunlucky]

As I mentioned on the other thread, there is a lot to staking out a corner. Clicking on the X in OnX, and say bring me there isn’t what I would call “safe”. In this case, the land owner with his signs makes it easy to stay legal.

Again, I hear people saying “I want to see the tracks” my rebuttal would be why? You would be better off turning your phone and just cross with your BS phone GPS and OnX.

In US vs camfield it was established--
The government of the United States has, with respect to its own lands within the limits of a state, the rights of an ordinary proprietor to maintain its possession, and to prosecute trespassers.

That's right public lands have equal rights to private.

It needs it day in court no doubt.

 

[Bighorner]

As I mentioned on the other thread, there is a lot to staking out a corner. Clicking on the X in OnX, and say bring me there isn’t what I would call “safe”. In this case, the land owner with his signs makes it easy to stay legal.

There is a lot to staking out a corner, but I did specify using survey grade equipment. Your warning about using onX is valid, but there are folks that are pro corner crossing (if it is found legal in court) that would be happy to help identify corners for the public good.

 

[Coveyleader]

There is a lot to staking out a corner, but I did specify using survey grade equipment. Your warning about using onX is valid, but there are folks that are pro corner crossing (if it is found legal in court) that would be happy to help identify corners for the public good.

We’re on the same side “ Carnal” I’m all for stepping across the corner but as mentioned, just be cautious.

 

[BuzzH]

To keep this thread on track, from the usual BS about gps accuracy and surveyed corners....

The hunters were not cited for trespassing to hunt, since the gf has repeatedly been instructed not to since the days of the memo released by gf director Cleveland.

The hunters did their due diligence and successfully crossed the corner last season telling both the sheriff and warden they were crossing. No citations were issued last year.

They returned this year with a ladder to cross this ridiculous tpost chain job. Again informed the warden and sheriff including their intent to use the ladder. They hunted several days, successfully, and we're finally cited after the landowner called the county attorney multiple times the day they were cited for criminal trespass. They were not cited under title 23 or by a warden, so it's not a hunting violation in any way. So the post regarding loss of hunting privileges in this case is also not true.

There's a lot more to this story as well and by the time it's all over I would expect more tickets to be issued...and not to the hunters.

I also believe this case is very important to public access or we wouldn't be pursuing it.

I'm happy to see the level of support and also equally surprised how many are willing to just roll over and argue over gps accuracy, cases that have no bearing on this case or anything to do with corner crossing, and the unwillingness by many to not stand up for public access.

I believe this case will likely be dropped...if not, we will have our day in court. Hiding under the bed will do nothing to solve this issue.

 

[Jimss]

I'm curious what evidence the sheriff/game warden, etc would need to prove someone trespassed in the first place? Do they actually need to see the person trespassing over the corner and/or have photos of their boot tracks on each side of the corner? What happens if the public hunter rakes the area where they corner crossed plus the game warden/sheriff didn't see them cross the corner? There are way more corners that don't have any fences than are fenced liked in the photo above! Would they also need to survey the corner where the trespass took place in addition to visually watch this happen...track evidence etc..... to prove that the trespass actually took place on private land?

What if this is done in the dark and all tracks or evidence removed.? No GPS or OnX evidence left on any devices to track the trespass route? There seems like there are a lot of unknowns in favor of the public unless the trespassers admit that they crossed a fence corner or pin-pointed location?

 

[NoWiser]

The spooky part about this is that if the hunters are found guilty they could possibly loose their hunting rights in all Western states for the next 5 years.

That is not true. They are in absolutely no danger of losing their hunting rights anywhere, including Wyoming.

 

[hawkman71]

I have not been out west yet so I haven't seen this in person yet. If it's truly corner-to-corner, a simple step should get you from public to public, right? Obviously, I'm missing something (everything). I'm guessing you have to get out the way you came and enter the other piece of public from a different access point.