Wyo Task Force - Nonres Comments!

[Bighorner]

In my mind, premium tags are just that. If someone wants to chase low draw odds tags let them. The last thing we need to do is add more "rules" that inevitably fall behind the supply curve and cause even more trouble down the road. This is exactly what the PP system got us. Life is tough, sheep tags are tough to draw and 10% LE deer tags are hard to draw. We need to stop with the math equations acting like band aids.

 

[wytx]

Anyone else comment on PP sharing? I sure did.
Residents do not want a waiting period for licenses, we have that already for some species.

How will that wait period affect your PP sharing Jims? Oh, I see you didn't mention it for NR. What's good for the goose....

 

[204guy]

Anyone else comment on PP sharing? I sure did.
Residents do not want a waiting period for licenses, we have that already for some species.

How will that wait period affect your PP sharing Jims? Oh, I see you didn't mention it for NR. What's good for the goose....

No kidding. Jimss left WY for CO for higher wages and better weather, and enjoying CO resident licenses. All the while conning other NR's out of their hard earned preference points and hunting WY nearly every year running in a very grey area of illegal guiding. Yet here comes altruistic jimss the patron Saint for the NR, yeah right. He just sees his personal gravey train drying up.

 

[realunlucky]

No kidding. Jimss left WY for CO for higher wages and better weather, and enjoying CO resident licenses. All the while conning other NR's out of their hard earned preference points and hunting WY nearly every year running in a very grey area of illegal guiding. Yet here comes altruistic jimss the patron Saint for the NR, yeah right. He just sees his personal gravey train drying up.

This isn't good for non residents regardless if you point share or not.

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[wytx]

No, but it would be good for residents.

 

[mhabiger]

My comment to the task force was basically that while across the board cuts to nonresidents undeniably increases resident opportunity, it's a blunt tool. Allowing WGFD to manage individual draw quotas to 90-10 where warranted would likely be more effective at addressing resident opportunity concerns. What warrants it? I don't know, I'm just an idea man. FWIW I did a quick analysis of elk and antelope draws.

For elk:

• about 20% of resident elk draws don't reach quota in the primary draw, down from around 45% in early 2010's
• about 30% of nonresident elk draws don't reach quota in the primary draw, down from around 60% in early 2010's
• the proportion of resident quota to nonresident quota has remained more or less flat at around 4.5:1

For antelope:

• about 35% of resident antelope draws don't reach quota in the primary draw, down from around 65% in early 2010's
• about 15% of nonresident antelope draws don't reach quota in the primary draw, down from around 50% in early 2010's
• the proportion of resident tags to nonresident has been increasing to around 1.2:1

So it would seem there is opportunity...but maybe not the opportunity that everyone prefers. And yes it is the case that those draws that don't reach quota have less public ground and/or are doe/cow tags.

To misappropriate our 42nd president "It depends on what the meaning of the word [opportunity] is"

 

[204guy]

This isn't good for non residents regardless if you point share or not.

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I haven't seen it said or even implied it is. The pie is the same, just sliced differently, there's gonna be a loser. I'm just saying the same message from 2 different people can have wildly different reactions depending on the messenger I find jimss as the messenger ironicly funny as hell considering the things he's pulled on his fellow NR's in the past.

 

[BuzzH]

Unanimous support from task force for 90/10 for big 5...18/18. Talk is for support of 50/50 random preference split, and once in a lifetime.

 

[GrosVentre]

I haven't seen it said or even implied it is. The pie is the same, just sliced differently, there's gonna be a loser. I'm just saying the same message from 2 different people can have wildly different reactions depending on the messenger I find jimss as the messenger ironicly funny as hell considering the things he's pulled on his fellow NR's in the past.

Do you not find it ironic "jims" wants to see residents go to a waiting period, however, year after year jims jumps to the front of the line with his point sharing scheme. Hunters who have bought points, waited years to draw are passed up by a guy who regularly gets others to share points with him, for the promise he will find them a big deer/antelope. Obviously, jims isn't waiting, buying points, but asks others to do so. I wonder how long this post will last...

 

[Ranger 692]

Unanimous support from task force for 90/10 for big 5...18/18. Talk is for support of 50/50 random preference split, and once in a lifetime.

I wish elk and antelope were being recommended for 90/10 as well. Any reason they didn’t include those?

 

[Steve O]

Unanimous support from task force for 90/10 for big 5...18/18. Talk is for support of 50/50 random preference split, and once in a lifetime.

Thanks for the update. That is like a nail in my coffin but I’m going to have to figure out a way to get to Wyoming as often as possible with all the new extra restrictions.

 

[Wags]

Do you not find it ironic "jims" wants to see residents go to a waiting period, however, year after year jims jumps to the front of the line with his point sharing scheme. Hunters who have bought points, waited years to draw are passed up by a guy who regularly gets others to share points with him, for the promise he will find them a big deer/antelope. Obviously, jims isn't waiting, buying points, but asks others to do so. I wonder how long this post will last...

I’m a new guy & know exactly 0 people on this site. I don’t know Jims nor am I implying he did any of the things mentioned.

That said I know a guy through other hunting that’s talked groups into putting in for my area in Wyoming last year & next year promising the world but won’t deliver on any of it. He’s only in it for himself. I wish I’d known that last year before I let him fill a tag on my place. IMO that’s chicken shit & scandalous. Needless to say he’s not getting on ever again & I’m glad I hadn’t shared any real information with him. I couldn’t live with treating others that way.

 

[BuzzH]

I wish elk and antelope were being recommended for 90/10 as well. Any reason they didn’t include those?

Its coming...90-10 for the big 5 was the "low hanging fruit". Every outfitter in the room supported 90-10 for the big 5 and every task force member.

 

[BuzzH]

I’m a new guy & know exactly 0 people on this site. I don’t know Jims nor am I implying he did any of the things mentioned.

That said I know a guy through other hunting that’s talked groups into putting in for my area in Wyoming last year & next year promising the world but won’t deliver on any of it. He’s only in it for himself. I wish I’d known that last year before I let him fill a tag on my place. IMO that’s chicken shit & scandalous. Needless to say he’s not getting on ever again & I’m glad I hadn’t shared any real information with him. I couldn’t live with treating others that way.

You done quoted the wrong guy...but no biggie, I know what Sebastian is. He accused me of illegal outfitting when I helped Randy Newberg (who I've been friends with for longer than he's had hunttalk or a show) and his son on an elk hunt here in Wyoming.

It was 100% jealousy and a real scum-bag move on his part. No skin off my back, as we did nothing wrong and it was actually humorous talking to the "investigator" who received the complaint.

Just goes to Jim Sebastian's character or lack there-of.

 

[Wags]

You done quoted the wrong guy...but no biggie, I know what Sebastian is. He accused me of illegal outfitting when I helped Randy Newberg (who I've been friends with for longer than he's had hunttalk or a show) and his son on an elk hunt here in Wyoming.

It was 100% jealousy and a real scum-bag move on his part. No skin off my back, as we did nothing wrong and it was actually humorous talking to the "investigator" who received the complaint.

Just goes to Jim Sebastian's character or lack there-of.

Your right, that’s odd, I was quoting someone else.

I can say this, Karma is as heartless as my ex wife. Guys that conduct themselves that way get theirs one way or another.

 

[BuzzH]

Your right, that’s odd, I was quoting someone else.

I can say this, Karma is as heartless as my ex wife. Guys that conduct themselves that way get theirs one way or another.

No question about that...and maybe this is his time.

 

[Jimss]

It's funny how several Wyo res talk smack about me but know nothing about the hunters I've shared great experiences with over the years. In fact, several of them have turned into lifetime hunting buddies and share info, photos, and hunts ever since our hunts together. It's no sweat off by back because I know everyone I've hunted with has had incredible hunts and have harvested amazing bucks.

I've also done nothing wrong spreading the word about what's going on with the Wyoming task force. How many nonres weren't even aware of the task force before I broadcast it on the web. I can understand why Buzz and his cronies want to shut me up because I brought this to so many nonres attention and they sent so many comments to the task force. Thank you guys! I hope it pays big dividends!

I could care less what several Wyo res say because I actually care about the impacts this will have for ALL nonres (not just me). I have only a few more years to hunt in Wyo because of my age but there are a lot young, upcoming nonres that will likely never apply in Wyo due to the difficulty of drawing tags and paying high pref pt fees. I quit applying my son for moose and sheep tags several years ago because I saw the writing on the wall. How many other nonres fathers will pull the plug on their son's applying for sheep, moose, deer, elk, and antelope? It's obvious that Buzz could care less but I sure do!

Everything I've tried to do to save nonres tags is contrary to what Buzz and his followers want so of course they are tossing me under the bus and trying everything in their power to shut me up.

I'm everything but a selfish person caring only about myself and the tags I draw. I can guarantee if 90/10 passes for deer, elk, and antelope in Wyo this same thing will happen in Colo. Taking tags out of nonres hands is pretty much worthless because it really doesn't improve draw odds for high demand tags and only offers a handful of additional resident tags in premium units. I understand completely the challenges that are faced by DIY nonres hunters drawing tags. I assure you I'm not selfish and will share the same consideration for nonres in Colo. I believe it would be a mistake in Colo even though I am a resident there!

If you want to talk about a selfish person ask Buzz how many big game tags he has in Wyo this year. He has somewhere between 7 and 12 tags and that's still not enough! If you add in how many tags his lovely wife has its an ungodly number of tags! Who is being selfish....I'll leave that up to you decide!

I stay on point with my original post and still believe it's super important that nonres continue submitting comments in regard to their concerns to the task force. Buzz and his cronies jumping all over me tells me that the comments shared by nonres has brought great attention to nonres since we have 0 voice on the task force! Thanks nonres for doing this!

 

[mxgust]

Unanimous support from task force for 90/10 for big 5...18/18. Talk is for support of 50/50 random preference split, and once in a lifetime.

Hey buzz, was it discussed about what happens for people who have already drawn for the once in a lifetime species? Would that be retroactive or just in place for after it’s instated?

 

[BuzzH]

Hey buzz, was it discussed about what happens for people who have already drawn for the once in a lifetime species? Would that be retroactive or just in place for after it’s instated?

Yes, retroactive OIL for anyone in the 5 year waiting period for moose and sheep seemed to be the way they want to go since nobody would be "losing" any points since they're in the waiting period.

I gave testimony supporting that even though it would impact me since I'm in the waiting period for sheep.

That really makes sense and I'm fine with it and have always believed moose and sheep should be OIL.

IIRC, they said that would remove about 1k people from the draw that are in waiting periods for moose and sheep...don't quote me on the exact number.

It would have to be more than that I think...180 sheep tags a year, and about 390 moose tags or there about times 5 years. Maybe it was 1900 ish.

Been a long day and lots of numbers thrown around...I apologize if my math sucks as bad as my memory.

 

[mxgust]

Yes, retroactive OIL for anyone in the 5 year waiting period for moose and sheep seemed to be the way they want to go since nobody would be "losing" any points since they're in the waiting period.

I gave testimony supporting that even though it would impact me since I'm in the waiting period for sheep.

That really makes sense and I'm fine with it and have always believed moose and sheep should be OIL.

IIRC, they said that would remove about 1k people from the draw that are in waiting periods for moose and sheep...don't quote me on the exact number.

It would have to be more than that I think...180 sheep tags a year, and about 390 moose tags or there about times 5 years. Maybe it was 1900 ish.

Been a long day and lots of numbers thrown around...I apologize if my math sucks as bad as my memory.

Gotcha. Thank you