Wyoming 90/10 task force!

[william schmaltz]

The comments on this thread are interesting to say the least. It seems most people are just reacting in anger because of losing their years of points money that will now be worthless.

The way I see things fair in my state are 90/10 with a no point system. So when other states do the same, I have no hard feelings. I have my hand in the game in Wyoming and this will make me stop buying sheep points and all the money I've put in up to this point will be "lost" (although I don't view it that way to begin with, it's my small contribution to wildlife). But I believe it's the right thing for the state to do. I have 8 points each for mule deer, elk, and antelope and if they decide to do away with the point system next year before I can cash em in, so be it. I would think they are ultimately making the best move for the future of hunting and maximizing opportunity for youth.

Is anyone that knows anything about the flawed point systems and how they're on the brink of needing changing still buying in and not at least kinda expecting the game to change at any minute?

@Bighorner is right on that "If you want to withhold support for conservation because you can't get a sheep/moose tag, you probably weren't going to help out anyway." I never plan to hunt in any of the states east of the river and on the far west coast, but there is no doubt that it's true when people say lost opportunity in those states is opening the doors to others. Kinda disgusting to see people on a hunting forum so vindictive that they won't support hunting overall if they can't hunt sheep someplace anymore.

But screw it, cut tags, raise the price to make up so the average working man can’t ever do this again.

The average working man has a garage full of depreciating assets he can't afford. Most of them can't even afford the garage but keep it all to impress the neighbors. For the person making below average, most states have a low income license option for their residents. Those that make hunting a priority will go and those that won't will stay home.

 

[BuzzH]

You talk like such a politician that Id vote for you if you were on my “side” In which i think we are on many many issues.

I just wish you would be honest and understand why some can be and are upset over some things like this.

I have no problem spending the money I can to help.

I reckon if I truly felt those that are the most upset, really cared about wildlife over their point investments, 3rd sheep tag, and bragging on instafamous and farcebook, I might be more sympathetic.

But I just don't find that to be the case...while fully understanding there are some folks that are getting the short end of the stick.

I'm so used to being subjected to 0-10% of the tags I apply for in other states, I have a hard time understanding why anyone would be upset to be held to those same percentages as NR applicants to Wyoming?

I feel its partially our fault as Wyoming Residents, we've been too generous to NR's to our detriment and its now turned into NR entitlement. Time for a reversal.

 

[Lawnboi]

I reckon if I truly felt those that are the most upset, really cared about wildlife over their point investments, 3rd sheep tag, and bragging on instafamous and farcebook, I might be more sympathetic.

But I just don't find that to be the case...while fully understanding there are some folks that are getting the short end of the stick.

I'm so used to being subjected to 0-10% of the tags I apply for in other states, I have a hard time understanding why anyone would be upset to be held to those same percentages as NR applicants to Wyoming?

I feel its partially our fault as Wyoming Residents, we've been too generous to NR's to our detriment and its now turned into NR entitlement. Time for a reversal.

In regards to the first and second paragraph: I too sometimes have a very jaded view on certain subjects including some you mentioned.

Just realize not everyone is that way. Sometimes being the bully dosn’t help and is largely why you get so much reaction on here.

I will continue to apply for Wyoming, and do see a lot of merit in some of the things you do, and time you spend.

 

[Lukem]

The post was mostly bull crap and I understand that fully. Just making the connection about people wanting more for themselves. That and the broken point systems. I fully understand what you posted above without you needing to explain it. I’m not an idiot for the most part.

Elk in WI is a joke and akin to drawing a tag to go shoot a cow on a farm. Non residents can apply for all our other limited license a where you actually hunt a species that is present on the landscape.

That's fine and I'm not trying to treat you like a kid. It's just that most people want to scream "it's not fair" and want to make changes that favor them (whatever side you land on). Not all people understand that there are specific reasons that NR are limited in some states but not nearly as much in others. But the truth is that all states give preference to their residents over NR (at a minimum in price), it's just at varying degrees. The degree to which a state protects it's residents is generally related to the impact that NR have or could on the resource. It's also cultural, some states are simply more protectionist than others. It's something that many eastern hunters don't understand. Not saying that you don't, but some of the comparisons and arguments in this thread lean that way.

Forgive me for stating the obvious here...

 

[tdhanses]

This baloney about the corner crossing issue being a resident only problem falls pretty short. As a resident I'm more likely to have a place to get on without opening my wallet.

Things are becoming more and more contentious because we are all getting pushed into smaller and smaller areas as access goes away. If you want to hunt in wyoming, particularly for deer elk and antelope the corner crossing deal is pretty important. All the folks that want to "go deep" have an excellent opportunity to get in to areas closed to public access by SxS and pickups.

I get being pissed about the reduction of tags. I would be too. If you want to take your ball and go home. There is a line of people ready to take your place. There just is. If you want to withhold support for conservation because you can't get a sheep/moose tag, you probably weren't going to help out anyway.

I agree but when you have guys like Buzzh pushing at the top and truthfully his approach turns most residents and nonresidents off, people who have helped for many years wonder why they do. This isn’t even about wildlife management but trophy hunting.

If WY continues to reduce NR opps as is Buzzh’s goal, he will push for DEA next go around, if a NR can’t really have an op to hunt but once or twice in a lifetime then yes, these issues are not a NR issue, in the current environment we can hunt if not every year, every other year but we know the future isn’t bright for that op while residents buy tags and never even hunt the tags they have.

 

[wapitibob]

Buzz never gave a crap about 90/10 for E/D/A until a cpl mouth breathers turned it personal. I think he posts about it just to get in their heads. As far as opportunity, nr can get just as many E/D/A tags a residents. If a nr isn't hunting all three species, every single year, it's because they choose not to.

 

[tdhanses]

Buzz never gave a crap about 90/10 for E/D/A until a cpl mouth breathers turned it personal. I think he posts about it just to get in their heads. As far as opportunity, nr can get just as many E/D/A tags a residents. If a nr isn't hunting all three species, every single year, it's because they choose not to.

This started out including DEA, the task force changed it to the big 5, so I call bs on your statement he didn’t care.

Yes currently you are correct, some are looking to the future, hope I’m wrong but in time it will change and tags will be more difficult. Even if DEA aren’t touched ever, we can see that it’ll get more difficult to get the few tags, reducing these to 10% will increase this much more quickly.

I get it as a resident you don’t care as this will not effect you. There will always be opportunities for those that really want to hunt, and people need to plan. I also get that NR that don’t agree are mouth breathers and your right because in the end, we have zero pull in the state and the direction it wants to take.

You can’t deny though that all these changes are about trophy hunting opportunities, it isn’t about just hunting, today it only effects the big 5. WY has great hunting period, otherwise us NR’s wouldn’t care about losing opportunities.

It’ll be interesting to see what hunting looks like in 25 years, I think we’ll see more opportunities possibly with far fewer participants, I do wonder what percentage of tags purchased are by baby boomers.

 

[wapitibob]

I'm not a resident, and 90/10 for E/D/A was discussed long before the task force. Mouth breathers refers to a cpl specific individuals who may or may not even be on this forum.

 

[Steve O]

Absolutely...couldn't agree with you more.

I'm likely done with sheep for the rest of my life barring a complete fluke in drawing another tag somewhere. I understand the odds, but don't mind continuing to pay to ensure that the herds for those that may get lucky and draw are in good shape. Or just to make sure I can see them or so that others, including non-consumptive users get to enjoy viewing then. I don't need to benefit directly from wildlife via killing it to understand the value it holds for 340 million Americans.

So the task force did not make the “Big 5” once in a lifetime?

 

[BuzzH]

This started out including DEA, the task force changed it to the big 5, so I call bs on your statement he didn’t care.

Yes currently you are correct, some are looking to the future, hope I’m wrong but in time it will change and tags will be more difficult. Even if DEA aren’t touched ever, we can see that it’ll get more difficult to get the few tags, reducing these to 10% will increase this much more quickly.

I get it as a resident you don’t care as this will not effect you. There will always be opportunities for those that really want to hunt, and people need to plan. I also get that NR that don’t agree are mouth breathers and your right because in the end, we have zero pull in the state and the direction it wants to take.

You can’t deny though that all these changes are about trophy hunting opportunities, it isn’t about just hunting, today it only effects the big 5. WY has great hunting period, otherwise us NR’s wouldn’t care about losing opportunities.

It’ll be interesting to see what hunting looks like in 25 years, I think we’ll see more opportunities possibly with far fewer participants, I do wonder what percentage of tags purchased are by baby boomers.

You're wrong about a lot of things.

A good friend and I started the push for 90-10 6 years ago for ONLY the big-5. Its all there for you to research, the first several bills that Hicks ran for us were only for the big 5. Call BS all you want, but you're just flat wrong.

DEA came later, and for the record the first time Hicks tried that route, we advised it was not a good idea. Although that bill did come close to making it to the floor, one vote away. That was a direct response from the outfitters bashing Hicks pretty hard and also from direction of the GF to simplify the draws for both R and NR. His bill at the time made a lot of sense...and why it nearly happened.

I think its inevitable AND needs to happen for DEP as well, in particular with Deer and Pronghorn as the interest has increased substantially for both Mule Deer and Pronghorn by both R and NR hunters. I can tell you that as the push comes for all LQ mule deer hunting, 90-10 will be right on its heels. With declining numbers of both Pronghorn and Mule deer, the push for 90-10 on those species is picking up momentum all the time.

As long as general tags for Residents remain over the counter, 90-10 will be pushed out further. The second either deer or elk are statewide LQ, 90-10 will be demanded by the Residents. Probably sooner would be my guess as opportunities dry up elsewhere.

Residents here are going to look out for themselves and their families first...and rightfully so. We live here for a reason, and its not to make huge money or for the great climate.

 

[tdhanses]

I'm not a resident, and 90/10 for E/D/A was discussed long before the task force. Mouth breathers refers to a cpl specific individuals who may or may not even be on this forum.

I think the future of DEA effects more people then the current change for the big 5. Just keep your eyes and ears open, DEA is next and they’ll feel good to move forward with it sooner then later after the big 5 win.

 

[BuzzH]

So the task force did not make the “Big 5” once in a lifetime?

No, but the legislature just did. The task force made the recommendation but they have ZERO authority to implement policy.

Anything coming from the task force has be implemented by either the GF commission or the Legislature.

 

[tdhanses]

You're wrong about a lot of things.

A good friend and I started the push for 90-10 6 years ago for ONLY the big-5. Its all there for you to research, the first several bills that Hicks ran for us were only for the big 5. Call BS all you want, but you're just flat wrong.

DEA came later, and for the record the first time Hicks tried that route, we advised it was not a good idea. Although that bill did come close to making it to the floor, one vote away. That was a direct response from the outfitters bashing Hicks pretty hard and also from direction of the GF to simplify the draws for both R and NR. His bill at the time made a lot of sense...and why it nearly happened.

I think its inevitable AND needs to happen for DEP as well, in particular with Deer and Pronghorn as the interest has increased substantially for both Mule Deer and Pronghorn by both R and NR hunters. I can tell you that as the push comes for all LQ mule deer hunting, 90-10 will be right on its heels. With declining numbers of both Pronghorn and Mule deer, the push for 90-10 on those species is picking up momentum all the time.

As long as general tags for Residents remain over the counter, 90-10 will be pushed out further. The second either deer or elk are statewide LQ, 90-10 will be demanded by the Residents. Probably sooner would be my guess as opportunities dry up elsewhere.

Residents here are going to look out for themselves and their families first...and rightfully so. We live here for a reason, and its not to make huge money or for the great climate.

I haven’t tracked your history, just going off your comments in the past year when it almost went to vote.

 

[Steve O]

No, but the legislature just did. The task force made the recommendation but they have ZERO authority to implement policy.

Anything coming from the task force has be implemented by either the GF commission or the Legislature.

10-4. And preference points are converting to bonus points for both residents and non residents for 2023?

 

[jmez]

340 million Americans. Romanticize much? I doubt much more that a couple million could even identify a Rocky Mountain Bighorn in a photo.

It isn't about the Big 5l. That is the low hanging fruit to get the ball rolling. It doesn't give a material increase in resident opportunity. It is about trophy opportunity for DEA. The tag numbers can't easily be changed. They can, and will change the allocation. They will issue less limited draw tags and roll those into general for NR's.

 

[tdhanses]

You're wrong about a lot of things.

A good friend and I started the push for 90-10 6 years ago for ONLY the big-5. Its all there for you to research, the first several bills that Hicks ran for us were only for the big 5. Call BS all you want, but you're just flat wrong.

DEA came later, and for the record the first time Hicks tried that route, we advised it was not a good idea. Although that bill did come close to making it to the floor, one vote away. That was a direct response from the outfitters bashing Hicks pretty hard and also from direction of the GF to simplify the draws for both R and NR. His bill at the time made a lot of sense...and why it nearly happened.

I think its inevitable AND needs to happen for DEP as well, in particular with Deer and Pronghorn as the interest has increased substantially for both Mule Deer and Pronghorn by both R and NR hunters. I can tell you that as the push comes for all LQ mule deer hunting, 90-10 will be right on its heels. With declining numbers of both Pronghorn and Mule deer, the push for 90-10 on those species is picking up momentum all the time.

As long as general tags for Residents remain over the counter, 90-10 will be pushed out further. The second either deer or elk are statewide LQ, 90-10 will be demanded by the Residents. Probably sooner would be my guess as opportunities dry up elsewhere.

Residents here are going to look out for themselves and their families first...and rightfully so. We live here for a reason, and its not to make huge money or for the great climate.

Why do you feel DE will go statewide draw for residents?

 

[Bobbyboe]

I’m sure at some point we’ll be asked to help sign petitions for Grizz hunting or to help fight to keep cat hunting etc, we already see they want donations for corner crossing but really these are all resident issues and barely effect NR’s yet they ask NR’s for help.

This 1000%!

The organization pushing the corner crossing fund is managed by Buzz, the same person single-handedly pushing for a reduction in non resident tags.

 

[BuzzH]

10-4. And preference points are converting to bonus points for both residents and non residents for 2023?

Just to make sure you're clear...once in a lifetime on the big-5 including anyone that draws this year and is currently on the 5 year waiting period. 90-10 takes effect in 2023 draw.

I'm done with sheep, for example as I'm on the 5 year wait.

As of right now, nothing has changed preference point wise yet. IF that were to pass, the talk is to not implement for 5 years to give folks a chance to draw under preference.

I think conversion of preference to bonus points is going to be a hard sell.

I know the only reason you're asking is because of your point totals. If you were to draw, we'd never hear from you again.

 

[BuzzH]

Why do you feel DE will go statewide draw for residents?

Deer will go before elk....way before, 90-10 will be on its heels when it does. Already talk of it for deer, just a matter of time, IMO.

 

[MallardSX2]

This 1000%!

The organization pushing the corner crossing fund is managed by Buzz, the same person single-handedly pushing for a reduction in non resident tags.

And this is why I wont give a penny to the BHA.

As long as they have him as a representative, I'm out.