cgasner1
WKR
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2015
- Messages
- 907
So leave the split and implement a preference point system for residents if you want a guaranteed tag
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Wyo Task Force - Nonres Comments!
- Thread starter Jimss
- Start date
So leave the split and implement a preference point system for residents if you want a guaranteed tag
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Timeless61
FNG
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2021
- Messages
- 65
I am not a resident. I was trying to figure out what you meant when you said that a resident draws the same tag every 3-4 years when it’s a random draw. Or you were just speaking of general statistics?
cgasner1
WKR
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2015
- Messages
- 907
The unit I’m trying to get for elk has like a 25 percent draw odds if I remember right I think the cuts bumped it to around 28 if I did the math right but it cuts the tags I could draw in half so who knows where I end up with this guaranteed tag my guess would be in the 18 year range
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Wags
WKR
What’s done is done, no use crying over spilled milk. All we can do now is adapt or pursue other opportunities in other states / countries and spend our money there instead.
cgasner1
WKR
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2015
- Messages
- 907
I’ll stay till I get the tag because it’s in my really good buddy back yard and I wanna go hunt with him after that the fly fisherman can support that state
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- Banned
- #166
I think if people organize there might be paths to pursue. At least recover cost of points with a changed system.
Wyoming can go ahead and make the changes if they feel the need to. It’s their state and we are lucky to have the opportunity to hunt it. I just wish the people in favor of 90/10 would get the hell out of here with the “it’s not going to change anything for non-residents” BS. Of course it is! It’s cutting the number of non resident LE tags in half! Mandated general tags may prop numbers up so you can make some convoluted argument, but we all know that’s not what this is about.
I can certainly understand why a resident might support this, I just wish one of them would be honest about the projected outcome and not mince words about the negative impact for non-residents. Just come out and say that Wyoming is placing residents first, it’s a shit sandwhich for non-residents, but they can pound sand. That’s the very clear message being sent to non-residents, so you might as well own it.
I can certainly understand why a resident might support this, I just wish one of them would be honest about the projected outcome and not mince words about the negative impact for non-residents. Just come out and say that Wyoming is placing residents first, it’s a shit sandwhich for non-residents, but they can pound sand. That’s the very clear message being sent to non-residents, so you might as well own it.
- Thread Starter
- #168
Wyo res already have good to great draw odds for deer, elk, and antelope.....and can hunt general deer and elk every year. Wyo res aren't lacking opportunity and can draw up to 12 big game tags/year. Buzz and other res often have 8 to 10 tags in their pocket each year.
What's sad is 90/10 for these species will only improve Wyo res draw odds and at the same time strip nonres of 1/2 of these limited tags. Nonres support 77% of the WG&F license/pref pt revenues. Wyo res have paid $0.00 for pref pt fees for these species. Cutting these nonres species tags in 1/2 is like shooting themselves in the foot.
If Wyo res truly want to increase their draw odds for high demand tags significantly they will need to change to something similar to waiting periods or some sort of bonus pt system. 90/10 for D/E/A is a drop in the bucket!
What's sad is 90/10 for these species will only improve Wyo res draw odds and at the same time strip nonres of 1/2 of these limited tags. Nonres support 77% of the WG&F license/pref pt revenues. Wyo res have paid $0.00 for pref pt fees for these species. Cutting these nonres species tags in 1/2 is like shooting themselves in the foot.
If Wyo res truly want to increase their draw odds for high demand tags significantly they will need to change to something similar to waiting periods or some sort of bonus pt system. 90/10 for D/E/A is a drop in the bucket!
- Thread Starter
- #169
I thought I would pass this along from the last Task Force Meeting:
The Big Horn Basin’s three members of the Wyoming Wildlife Task Force didn’t waste time with a lot of introductions on Tuesday, getting straight into listening to area hunters, outfitters, landowners and business owners. Before they closed, the group at the Park County Fairgrounds had waded through a myriad of major issues and headed straight for the weeds.
Task force members Rep. Jamie Flitner, R-Greybull, Park County Commissioner and outfitter Lee Livingston and former outfitter and Park County landowner Duaine Hagen scheduled the listening session to get feedback on possible proposals and develop new ideas. Gov. Mark Gordon assembled the team of 18 individuals with hopes of developing acceptable proposals.
There was trepidation the meeting could turn contentious, as hunting and wildlife issue passions run deep here. The broad subject matter — from license allocation and the weapons hunters can use to invasive species and the overall sustainability of wildlife and the Wyoming Game and Fish Department — has the potential to be overwhelming.
Yet, despite facing the possibility of costlier licenses and fees for residents and the typical divides between groups in attendance, there were few fireworks. The small but well-prepared crowd was eager to dive head-first into the conversation, only ending due to time restrictions. None of the issues are quick fixes and each comes with consequences to the species and harvests.
“I think the reason these issues have been so hard to solve is because they are so intricate and intertwined and complicated that, if you make one little tweak, there are likely to be unintended consequences,” Flitner said.
Resident hunters are frustrated with limited licenses, access, and overall opportunities to hunt. Only one proposal — to change the distribution of “the big five” hunting licenses (moose, sheep, grizzly, goat and bison) and offer 15% more to residents — received close to a consensus during Tuesday’s listening session. But even the seemingly most popular proposal comes with several sticking points.
Changing the distribution to a 90%/10% resident/non-resident split will cost the Game and Fish department about $200,000 in revenue. It also has the potential to put off tourism to the state at a time when increased tourism is seen as a possible fix for decreasing mineral extraction revenue, and it includes a species (the grizzly bear) that’s still listed for protections under the Endangered Species Act. Even if the change is made, it won’t substantially increase Wyomingites’ odds of drawing coveted big five tags, Flitner said. The proposal would also limit hunters to a once-in-a lifetime opportunity, regardless of harvest results.
A move to similarly change the split with elk, deer and antelope licenses to increase allocation to resident hunters could cost the Game and Fish Department millions of dollars. Only non-residents are required to buy preference points for ungulates and, in doing so, they subsidize resident hunting, Flitner said. Game and Fish is mostly funded by hunters and federal taxes from the sale of hunting and fishing equipment. None of the department’s current funding comes from the State of Wyoming’s general funds.
“At what point do we get so high that it is just a rich man sport,” Livingston said of allowing the market to determine the price. “If you run it like a business, do you drive folks away?”
If the price of resident licenses went up about $10, that could increase Game and Fish revenues by about $1 million, Flitner said. But the department brings in millions from the sale of non-resident preference points for the right to hunt in the future.
Hagen cautioned against turning away non-resident hunters.
“We better start looking at revenue in the state,” he said. “We’re going to lose a lot of revenue we take for granted.”
Tourism, including from non-resident hunters, is the second-largest source of revenue in Wyoming. Limiting non-resident hunting also affects family members, like those who have moved out of state but would still like to come home to hunt with family in Wyoming.
Offering fewer non-resident licenses could also drive away out-of-state hunters who are unwilling to wait several years to draw a tag, Livingston pointed out. There’s a fear that the preference points system is unsustainable, with hunters likely having to wait decades before accumulating enough preference points to obtain a license.
Those in attendance offered suggestions to alleviate frustrations by hunters unable to draw a tag, pulling some concepts from neighboring states.
Livingston said the task force is willing to listen to all ideas, but Wyoming is unique due to its low population and abundance of game.
“On the surface it seems like well, other states are doing it, we should do it. But I think we need to look at what works for Wyoming,” he said. “Other states have millions of people in them and a smaller wildlife resource than Wyoming does. So that needs to be addressed. If we’re going to move forward with something, I don’t think there’s a one-size fits all [remedy]. But I do understand the frustration with folks not being able to draw tags.”
Task force members and those in attendance both agreed on the most important issue: protecting habitat and wildlife resources.
“I think the number one issue is resource management,” Flitner said. “We want to make sure Wyoming continues to have the best wildlife of any state in the nation.”
Healthy habitat and wildlife management, as well as conservation of non-game species in Wyoming, is largely paid for through the sale of hunting licenses and fees.
“It isn’t about me. It can’t be just about me,” said Powell resident Tim Metzler. “It’s got to be about everybody and all of our opportunities, but we still have to leave something in the field. We always need to be concerned about what we leave in the field when we’re done.”
One proposal receiving positive reaction would make harvest surveys mandatory. Currently the state gives hunters the option of reporting success and failure in the field. Many in attendance supported a possible proposal requiring timely reporting of harvests or forfeiting future hunting rights.
Other issues discussed included: policies and practices that might support and incentivize private landowners as stewards of wildlife habitat; supporting outfitters and their guests to maximize the benefits to Wyoming’s economy and wildlife; the distribution of commissioners licenses; management schemes; and methods to improve and better serve Wyoming residents and wildlife. Also up for discussion is the long-term stability of the Game and Fish, poaching and its punishment, invasive species mitigation, trapping and hiking safety, wildlife traffic mortality, technology and fair chase hunting ethics, the Endangered Species Act and access for all hunters.
As the meeting progressed, the discussion leaped from specified topics to issues that probably won’t result in proposals from the task force. For instance, finding a way to tax non-consumptive users — like installing toll gates for tourists or finding a way to make the purchase of conservation stamps mandatory for hikers and wildlife watchers — made their way into the debate.
“We’re getting off into the weeds on those [topics],” Livingston warned.
But the task force members were there to listen and promised to schedule future listening sessions.
“This is a distance race, not a sprint,” Flitner said. “In the end, not everybody’s going to be happy … There’s gotta be give and take on both ends.”
Task force members pleaded for comments, though hundreds throughout the state have already interacted with the group through online and hand-written comments.
“Please submit those comments,” Flitner told the Powell audience, “because you’d be amazed that, during the session when these issues come up, we don’t hear from people like you.”
For more information, visit sites.google.com/wyo.gov/wyomingwildlifetaskforce.
The Big Horn Basin’s three members of the Wyoming Wildlife Task Force didn’t waste time with a lot of introductions on Tuesday, getting straight into listening to area hunters, outfitters, landowners and business owners. Before they closed, the group at the Park County Fairgrounds had waded through a myriad of major issues and headed straight for the weeds.
Task force members Rep. Jamie Flitner, R-Greybull, Park County Commissioner and outfitter Lee Livingston and former outfitter and Park County landowner Duaine Hagen scheduled the listening session to get feedback on possible proposals and develop new ideas. Gov. Mark Gordon assembled the team of 18 individuals with hopes of developing acceptable proposals.
There was trepidation the meeting could turn contentious, as hunting and wildlife issue passions run deep here. The broad subject matter — from license allocation and the weapons hunters can use to invasive species and the overall sustainability of wildlife and the Wyoming Game and Fish Department — has the potential to be overwhelming.
Yet, despite facing the possibility of costlier licenses and fees for residents and the typical divides between groups in attendance, there were few fireworks. The small but well-prepared crowd was eager to dive head-first into the conversation, only ending due to time restrictions. None of the issues are quick fixes and each comes with consequences to the species and harvests.
“I think the reason these issues have been so hard to solve is because they are so intricate and intertwined and complicated that, if you make one little tweak, there are likely to be unintended consequences,” Flitner said.
Resident hunters are frustrated with limited licenses, access, and overall opportunities to hunt. Only one proposal — to change the distribution of “the big five” hunting licenses (moose, sheep, grizzly, goat and bison) and offer 15% more to residents — received close to a consensus during Tuesday’s listening session. But even the seemingly most popular proposal comes with several sticking points.
Changing the distribution to a 90%/10% resident/non-resident split will cost the Game and Fish department about $200,000 in revenue. It also has the potential to put off tourism to the state at a time when increased tourism is seen as a possible fix for decreasing mineral extraction revenue, and it includes a species (the grizzly bear) that’s still listed for protections under the Endangered Species Act. Even if the change is made, it won’t substantially increase Wyomingites’ odds of drawing coveted big five tags, Flitner said. The proposal would also limit hunters to a once-in-a lifetime opportunity, regardless of harvest results.
A move to similarly change the split with elk, deer and antelope licenses to increase allocation to resident hunters could cost the Game and Fish Department millions of dollars. Only non-residents are required to buy preference points for ungulates and, in doing so, they subsidize resident hunting, Flitner said. Game and Fish is mostly funded by hunters and federal taxes from the sale of hunting and fishing equipment. None of the department’s current funding comes from the State of Wyoming’s general funds.
“At what point do we get so high that it is just a rich man sport,” Livingston said of allowing the market to determine the price. “If you run it like a business, do you drive folks away?”
If the price of resident licenses went up about $10, that could increase Game and Fish revenues by about $1 million, Flitner said. But the department brings in millions from the sale of non-resident preference points for the right to hunt in the future.
Hagen cautioned against turning away non-resident hunters.
“We better start looking at revenue in the state,” he said. “We’re going to lose a lot of revenue we take for granted.”
Tourism, including from non-resident hunters, is the second-largest source of revenue in Wyoming. Limiting non-resident hunting also affects family members, like those who have moved out of state but would still like to come home to hunt with family in Wyoming.
Offering fewer non-resident licenses could also drive away out-of-state hunters who are unwilling to wait several years to draw a tag, Livingston pointed out. There’s a fear that the preference points system is unsustainable, with hunters likely having to wait decades before accumulating enough preference points to obtain a license.
Those in attendance offered suggestions to alleviate frustrations by hunters unable to draw a tag, pulling some concepts from neighboring states.
Livingston said the task force is willing to listen to all ideas, but Wyoming is unique due to its low population and abundance of game.
“On the surface it seems like well, other states are doing it, we should do it. But I think we need to look at what works for Wyoming,” he said. “Other states have millions of people in them and a smaller wildlife resource than Wyoming does. So that needs to be addressed. If we’re going to move forward with something, I don’t think there’s a one-size fits all [remedy]. But I do understand the frustration with folks not being able to draw tags.”
Task force members and those in attendance both agreed on the most important issue: protecting habitat and wildlife resources.
“I think the number one issue is resource management,” Flitner said. “We want to make sure Wyoming continues to have the best wildlife of any state in the nation.”
Healthy habitat and wildlife management, as well as conservation of non-game species in Wyoming, is largely paid for through the sale of hunting licenses and fees.
“It isn’t about me. It can’t be just about me,” said Powell resident Tim Metzler. “It’s got to be about everybody and all of our opportunities, but we still have to leave something in the field. We always need to be concerned about what we leave in the field when we’re done.”
One proposal receiving positive reaction would make harvest surveys mandatory. Currently the state gives hunters the option of reporting success and failure in the field. Many in attendance supported a possible proposal requiring timely reporting of harvests or forfeiting future hunting rights.
Other issues discussed included: policies and practices that might support and incentivize private landowners as stewards of wildlife habitat; supporting outfitters and their guests to maximize the benefits to Wyoming’s economy and wildlife; the distribution of commissioners licenses; management schemes; and methods to improve and better serve Wyoming residents and wildlife. Also up for discussion is the long-term stability of the Game and Fish, poaching and its punishment, invasive species mitigation, trapping and hiking safety, wildlife traffic mortality, technology and fair chase hunting ethics, the Endangered Species Act and access for all hunters.
As the meeting progressed, the discussion leaped from specified topics to issues that probably won’t result in proposals from the task force. For instance, finding a way to tax non-consumptive users — like installing toll gates for tourists or finding a way to make the purchase of conservation stamps mandatory for hikers and wildlife watchers — made their way into the debate.
“We’re getting off into the weeds on those [topics],” Livingston warned.
But the task force members were there to listen and promised to schedule future listening sessions.
“This is a distance race, not a sprint,” Flitner said. “In the end, not everybody’s going to be happy … There’s gotta be give and take on both ends.”
Task force members pleaded for comments, though hundreds throughout the state have already interacted with the group through online and hand-written comments.
“Please submit those comments,” Flitner told the Powell audience, “because you’d be amazed that, during the session when these issues come up, we don’t hear from people like you.”
For more information, visit sites.google.com/wyo.gov/wyomingwildlifetaskforce.
- Banned
- #170
Be careful what you wish for you’ll be like goddamn Idaho
tdhanses
WKR
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2018
- Messages
- 5,903
Cracks me up in a digital age/workforce people don’t realize you don’t have to find a job in WY to move there, just wait till thousands of CA residents become WY residents, they’ll then wish they didn’t tell people to nut up and move there. COVID proved to many companies they don’t need people in the office to get the job done and can lower overhead costs.
But truthfully doubt I’d want to live there as it seems to be a very unfriendly state, maybe I’m wrong but residents surely don’t seem like they would be friendly unless you grew up there.
I give WY 15 years till it’s like CO and the liberals are in charge anyway.
We have a secret weapon against the Californication of Wyoming.
The Wind.
hahahaha
Let'er BUCK!
Yeah.....i hear ya
Not trying to come off as an a@&hole,but there is a sacrifice that comes with being a PERMANENT resident of this state( as with other states im sure). Ive helped many immigrants......i mean non residents......with info on how,when and where to start whenever I can. As someone who did not grow up in Wyoming i know first hand how tough it can be. But these decisions are made in a way that isnt going to please everyone.....and the last time i looked it seems that life is not fair in general.
Chucklehead
WKR
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2015
- Messages
- 305
Don't let a few bitter apples on here paint your opinion of the people there. My mom is from there, grandparents lived there until they passed and my uncle still lives there. So I've spent a lot of time in Wyoming and vast majority are some of the nicest people you'll ever meet.
Chucklehead
WKR
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2015
- Messages
- 305
Its funny calling NR hunters "immigrants" and then admit you immigrated to wyoming like a sentence later... but guess you didn't catch that.
tdhanses
WKR
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2018
- Messages
- 5,903
That sacrifice in time won’t be as big for others as it was you is all I’m saying, also you only have to live there the majority of the time for resident status, easy to skip winter if one wanted and still be a resident when all they need for work is an internet connection.
No....i certainly caught it,and yes,i did immigrate to this state.......gotta have some sense of humor man.
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