Wyo Task Force - Nonres Comments!

[LostArra]

Regarding elk: Not a reduction in tags, just a redistribution of some non-resident LE tags to General with a corresponding increase in resident LE tags.

It' will be a bigger hit to NR than it is a windfall for residents but 90-10 seems to be the going rate in western states so I would assume they move that direction.

 

[tdhanses]

Huh
That’s interesting, I guess I’m not understanding it then. These things always seem to have many angles and very convoluted that wasn’t my takeaway at first glance so seems I need to go back and reread

thanks.

The NR tags removed from the limited pool don’t just go away, they move to general only tags. So less opportunity for limited for the NR and more general tags available.

 

[Laramie]

The NR tags removed from the limited pool don’t just go away, they move to general only tags. So less opportunity for limited for the NR and more general tags available.

Only regarding elk. All other species will see a significant reduction in tags.

 

[tdhanses]

Only regarding elk. All other species will see a significant reduction in tags.

True, I tend to get stuck on elk, lol.

 

[BuzzH]

My update a few posts back was from the last meeting and is the latest, the next meeting is tomorrow (Sept. 1st). The final task force meeting is scheduled for Dec. 3rd and then the task force makes recommendations to the legislature afterwards (unless they jump the gun).

Task force has already moved 90-10 for the big 5 and Flitner is or has already drafted legislation to push it this coming legislative session. They don't have to wait until after the final meeting to make recommendations to the legislature. In fact, the TRW committee gave the task force an ultimatum in February, "deal with 90-10 and get us something before next year, or we will deal with it".

Anything that passes won't be law until 2023, so if it passes (very likely) NR's hunting the big 5 will be limited to 10% of the tags for those species. Plan accordingly for 2022.

 

[WyoHnt300]

Hey folks, just found this thread and have gone through every post thus far. I am one of the appointed members of the Task Force charged with representing the resident sportsman. I'll try and clarify some of the statements made throughout the discussion and if I miss something I'm sure someone will let me know. Here's the link to the TF website https://sites.google.com/wyo.gov/wyomingwildlifetaskforce

The Task Force is set to operate for 18 months from it's initiation and has no legislative or regulatory authority. We are able to make recommendations to either the Legislature or WY G&F Commission and then let those recommendations navigate the legislative and commission regulatory process. No recommendation can have any authority until that process is completed. Now, onto the clarifications.

-90/10 for deer/elk/pronghorn is NOT being discussed at this time. 90/10 for the Big 5 (moose, sheep, goat, bison and (fingers crossed) grizzly bear) was recommended as was the "Once In a Lifetime" status that would retroactively effect those in the 5 year waiting period.

-there is talk of phasing out PP altogether and go full random on the Big 5 and D/E/A to "rip the band aid off" as I've seen a couple of you say. The revenue loss to the department for the Big 5 is negligible (<$300k) but on D/E/A is too significant to ignore. The hard part is that we know point creep is kicking the NR hunter's butt like it is the resident hunter for the Big 5.

-the wilderness rule for NR has come up in discussion on a couple of occasions

-in regards to residents tag opportunities, appx 2k residents take advantage of the multiple tags available, the vast majority hunt 1 or 2 tags a year.

-Where WY outfitters are concerned, on the Big 5, appx 40% of Big 5 NR license holders use an outfitter while appx 49% of R license holders use an outfitter.

-mandatory harvest surveys/mortality reporting for license holders with penalty for failure to complete is a topic of discussion

-the restructuring of the Landowner tag system is on the table i.e. qualification prerequisites, flexible LO licenses, access incentives, etc. To clarify, LO tags are not given based on acreage alone, the proof of animal use days is the determining factor

-statewide LQ mule deer licenses have been discussed

-regionalizing GEN D/E tags for R and NR alike has been discussed.

-We also recommended that the Legislation and Governor prioritize fully funding the Wyoming Wildlife and Natural Resources Trust

I know I missed some of your questions, but 14 pages was some hefty reading on a Monday morning. Thanks for the prompting the discussion.

 

[mhabiger]

One clarification on 90/10 not being discussed for D/E/P. Is this to say that based on the discussions from the last meeting and information WY G&F shared regarding budget and resident odds projections, the task force has decided there really isn't any feasible 90/10 scenario for D/E/P? So best to focus on other avenues of improving opportunity?

 

[idig4au]

I’m really glad I have invested 22 years of building points for sheep based on the 25% tag allocation for NR to have that stripped to 10%. I love spending $150/yr for this privilege while residents pay $7/yr for their sheep bonus points. How is this fair and equitable?

I can see dropping overall tags based on biology or conservation needs, but this seems solely based on opportunity for residents. There is no conservation science basis with this decision. Based on the financial implications this has on non residents given the investment we have made based on the 25% tag allocation and PP system, I can see some lawsuits in the future. I will gladly join in these lawsuits as a matter of principle. That or WF&G can refund the 22 years of PP fees I’ve paid into the system for not!

 

[tdhanses]

Hey folks, just found this thread and have gone through every post thus far. I am one of the appointed members of the Task Force charged with representing the resident sportsman. I'll try and clarify some of the statements made throughout the discussion and if I miss something I'm sure someone will let me know. Here's the link to the TF website https://sites.google.com/wyo.gov/wyomingwildlifetaskforce

The Task Force is set to operate for 18 months from it's initiation and has no legislative or regulatory authority. We are able to make recommendations to either the Legislature or WY G&F Commission and then let those recommendations navigate the legislative and commission regulatory process. No recommendation can have any authority until that process is completed. Now, onto the clarifications.

-90/10 for deer/elk/pronghorn is NOT being discussed at this time. 90/10 for the Big 5 (moose, sheep, goat, bison and (fingers crossed) grizzly bear) was recommended as was the "Once In a Lifetime" status that would retroactively effect those in the 5 year waiting period.

-there is talk of phasing out PP altogether and go full random on the Big 5 and D/E/A to "rip the band aid off" as I've seen a couple of you say. The revenue loss to the department for the Big 5 is negligible (<$300k) but on D/E/A is too significant to ignore. The hard part is that we know point creep is kicking the NR hunter's butt like it is the resident hunter for the Big 5.

-the wilderness rule for NR has come up in discussion on a couple of occasions

-in regards to residents tag opportunities, appx 2k residents take advantage of the multiple tags available, the vast majority hunt 1 or 2 tags a year.

-Where WY outfitters are concerned, on the Big 5, appx 40% of Big 5 NR license holders use an outfitter while appx 49% of R license holders use an outfitter.

-mandatory harvest surveys/mortality reporting for license holders with penalty for failure to complete is a topic of discussion

-the restructuring of the Landowner tag system is on the table i.e. qualification prerequisites, flexible LO licenses, access incentives, etc. To clarify, LO tags are not given based on acreage alone, the proof of animal use days is the determining factor

-statewide LQ mule deer licenses have been discussed

-regionalizing GEN D/E tags for R and NR alike has been discussed.

-We also recommended that the Legislation and Governor prioritize fully funding the Wyoming Wildlife and Natural Resources Trust

I know I missed some of your questions, but 14 pages was some hefty reading on a Monday morning. Thanks for the prompting the discussion.

Today it’s just the big 5 but in time as Buzzh says, everything will be reduced, with this change to the big 5 I hope all NR are paying attention and realize their pp donation is just that as in time it’ll be a worthless investment.

Personally I think you should recommend removing the PP for everything ASAP, the state will lose out on millions in fees collected but better then doing an about face in 5 years while many have invested in a future opportunity that will be nonexistent once tags are cut in half.

 

[RyanT26]

Well it’s not ideal, I don’t think it’s quite the end of the world that some are making it out to be. I do you feel for you guys that got a lifetime of sheep points and still unable to draw. So next time you’ll think about introducing or recommending somebody head out west to Hunt remember these times. The demand far outweighs the supply. With any luck this western hunting phase will burn out until then get used to it.

 

[BuzzH]

I’m really glad I have invested 22 years of building points for sheep based on the 25% tag allocation for NR to have that stripped to 10%. I love spending $150/yr for this privilege while residents pay $7/yr for their sheep bonus points. How is this fair and equitable?

I can see dropping overall tags based on biology or conservation needs, but this seems solely based on opportunity for residents. There is no conservation science basis with this decision. Based on the financial implications this has on non residents given the investment we have made based on the 25% tag allocation and PP system, I can see some lawsuits in the future. I will gladly join in these lawsuits as a matter of principle. That or WF&G can refund the 22 years of PP fees I’ve paid into the system for not!

Could have drawn a tag already.

Lawsuit is a losing proposition.

You didnt pay $150 for all your 22 points.

Good luck.

 

[tdhanses]

Class action suits can be impactful. I was wondering based on how WY solicits you to purchase points If there would be standing. Never dull when it comes to hunting.

Yeah suit by one or two wouldn’t get traction, suit by a large percentage of NR‘s who have purchased points since inception would defiantly gain traction and be a huge expense to the state to defend. Thing is they have to get people on board and doubt many would jump on but who knows.

 

[tdhanses]

Could have drawn a tag already.

Lawsuit is a losing proposition.

You didnt pay $150 for all your 22 points.

Good luck.

Everyone that’s had a class action against them said the same thing, in the end, depends on the judge and intent but they would have to get a large percentage of individuals that paid for pts to jump on, wouldn’t be hard to get that info though. I also bet it would end in a settlement.

I personally am not in favor of a class action.

 

[Laramie]

Everyone that’s had a class action against them said the same thing, in the end, depends on the judge and intent but they would have to get a large percentage of individuals that paid for pts to jump on, wouldn’t be hard to get that info though. I also bet it would end in a settlement.

I personally am not in favor of a class action.

I would love something for my points but I wouldn't participate in a class action. Nobody wins but the lawyers.

 

[tdhanses]

I would love something for my points but I wouldn't participate in a class action. Nobody wins but the lawyers.

Completely agree

 

[Kimber7man]

Could have drawn a tag already.

Lawsuit is a losing proposition.

You didnt pay $150 for all your 22 points.

Good luck.

He didn’t say he spent $150 for all his points.

 

[wind gypsy]

What's the basis for a class action lawsuit? Seems like a failing proposition to me. $150/year is pretty cheap compared to a lawsuit.

 

[mntnguide]

I’m really glad I have invested 22 years of building points for sheep based on the 25% tag allocation for NR to have that stripped to 10%. I love spending $150/yr for this privilege while residents pay $7/yr for their sheep bonus points. How is this fair and equitable?

Fair? How much do you spend in Wyoming each year for the state and economy? Cause as a resident i spend money here everyday, i pay taxes on my house, my vehicle and all purchases here, in this state. So why is it fair my prices are different than yours? Cause you have a privilege of drawing a sheep tag in this state, regardless of how little you contribute to this actual state. And like Buzz mentioned, with your points, you could have drawn already, and that is your choice.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[jmez]

Lawsuit may be a losing proposition but some don't care, money is no object and they do it for pure sport. I know a guy that sued the WY game and fish because they made him mad. His net worth is measured in the billions.

He told me, "I'll win, they will run out of money before I will."

He was right. They eventually relented. After they did, he didn't follow through with what he sued them over. Said he just wanted to prove a point.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

 

[Ten Bears]

w.