Wyo Task Force - Nonres Comments!

[BuzzH]

You

Do you understand basic math? Define much of an impact to you. 90/10 for dea would be significant from a budget standpoint.

Regarding PP, do you really think the average guy is willing to jump in the PP game for an antelope knowing it will take 15+ years for a tag that now takes 5? 25 years for a deer tag that now takes 10? Some might but guessing a good percentage will bail.

Add up the non resident antelope permits alone and the impact is easy to see just from lost permit revenue.

Now of course there are ways to make up that money. Most people's first response is permit increases. That will cover the loss initially but in reality it is made up money. If non residents are willing to pay more, they can raise under the current allocations and have even more. Cut the permits, and that becomes exponentially limited, forever.

I'm not saying it won't happen... It will eventually but long term budget problems will be created.

There is going to be a change in points as well.

The direction they're headed is a conversion from preference to bonus point system of some sort.

There is no way that the point system is going to go away, too much money involved.

On the subject of money, I think its high time the outfitters, restaurants, hotels, and other tourism profiteers start paying their way.

We seem stuck on the idea that hunters have to pay all the freight. If the tourism folks (and others that pay NOTHING) want to be considered on wildlife decisions, either pick up part of the tab or I don't really care how changes to tag allocations, etc. impact your industry.

My wildlife is not here for the sake of financially supporting your business.

Further, I've yet to see an owner of any local restaurant, hotel, or gas station attend a work day locally near me. I guess being bothered with financially, or through volunteer hours, is just too inconvenient to help our wildlife that you profit from.

In my world, you want a seat at the table, you pay for it...no free lunch.

 

[TheTone]

I’d love to see some state make outfitters pay the state wildlife agency based on number of clients.

one thing seems for certain with regards to the future of Wyoming and it’s that I need to figure out a plan to cash in my d/e/p points sooner rather than later

 

[Tod osier]

In my world, you want a seat at the table, you pay for it...no free lunch.

Except non-residents, what they pay doesn't count, right?

 

[RyanT26]

There is going to be a change in points as well.

The direction they're headed is a conversion from preference to bonus point system of some sort.

There is no way that the point system is going to go away, too much money involved.

On the subject of money, I think its high time the outfitters, restaurants, hotels, and other tourism profiteers start paying their way.

We seem stuck on the idea that hunters have to pay all the freight. If the tourism folks (and others that pay NOTHING) want to be considered on wildlife decisions, either pick up part of the tab or I don't really care how changes to tag allocations, etc. impact your industry.

My wildlife is not here for the sake of financially supporting your business.

Further, I've yet to see an owner of any local restaurant, hotel, or gas station attend a work day locally near me. I guess being bothered with financially, or through volunteer hours, is just too inconvenient to help our wildlife that you profit from.

In my world, you want a seat at the table, you pay for it...no free lunch.

What are your thoughts on the possibility of the point change. It seems like going to a bonus point system would muddy the waters even more.

 

[BuzzH]

Except non-residents, what they pay doesn't count, right?

You have a seat, albeit a folding lawn chair...why the sour attitude?

I have a similar sized seat in the 49 states I'm a non-resident of.

The trouble is, guys like you want the king sized sofa chair in a State you don't live in.

 

[BuzzH]

What are your thoughts on the possibility of the point change. It seems like going to a bonus point system would muddy the waters even more.

100% going to change to a bonus point system of some sort, everyone in one draw (no more random/preference pools) probably do away with point averaging in party applications too.

Well, everybody is afraid of certainty...I give it 93% odds of changing to bonus points.

 

[Kimber7man]

100% going to change to a bonus point system of some sort, everyone in one draw (no more random/preference pools) probably do away with point averaging in party applications too.

Well, everybody is afraid of certainty...I give it 93% odds of changing to bonus points.

Doing away with point averaging will certainly change how our group applies for tags in Wyoming. I’d be interested in hearing how likely that will be.

 

[RyanT26]

100% going to change to a bonus point system of some sort, everyone in one draw (no more random/preference pools) probably do away with point averaging in party applications too.

Well, everybody is afraid of certainty...I give it 93% odds of changing to bonus points.

That’s unfortunate I like the way Wyoming has the draw set up, even the random/preference point pools. In my opinion it’s about the best there is.

 

[Archer86]

Hopefully the bonus point system is a joke....they don't work...wanna talk about buying points for years and not drawing a tag thats what you will get. Washington is a perfect example of why a bonus point type system doesn't work.

 

[BuzzH]

Hopefully the bonus point system is a joke....they don't work...wanna talk about buying points for years and not drawing a tag thats what you will get. Washington is a perfect example of why a bonus point type system doesn't work.

Not a joke...you can listen to the task force meeting.

Pat Crank, one of the task force members calls the current point system a "shitty car, we bought an Edsel when we adopted the preference point system."

Everyone seems to agree, what they're not sure of is just exactly what type of bonus point system to adopt that just isn't replacing the muffler on that shitty Edsel.

I don't disagree with you that a bonus point system is a joke, but it does a few things:

1. Gives every applicant a chance to draw from a single applicant pool.
2. Gives the perception that acquiring more chances in the draw (bonus points) will increase your odds.
3. Allows the GF to continue to receive revenue from the majority of Americans that absolutely suck at math.

That said, with high numbers of licenses the point systems do statistically work. Where they don't work is on things like sheep, goats, moose, etc.

Everyone is happy.

 

[RyanT26]

Maybe it’s the best system out of a whole bunch of shitty systems but I fail to understand how moving to a bonus system would improve anything.

 

[BuzzH]

Maybe it’s the best system out of a whole bunch of shitty systems but I fail to understand how moving to a bonus system would improve anything.

Depends where you are in the preference system.

A guy with less than 18 points for sheep, their odds will increase because they'll have a shot at 100% of the available tags.

If you're in the top couple 3-4 preference point pools, its just the opposite....will hurt your odds dramatically as you're virtually assured a tag. Now you're competing against every applicant.

 

[tdhanses]

Maybe it’s the best system out of a whole bunch of shitty systems but I fail to understand how moving to a bonus system would improve anything.

WY is going to turn into a crap hole for NR odds but one thing it may do is motivate people to move there increasing the number of residents in the hunt, truthfully if anyone wants hunt WY consistently in the future, with the special interests pushing their anti NR agenda, I just don’t see it happening in 5 years, it won’t be a place to hunt but once or twice in a lifetime with a few getting amazing tags every other year somehow.

It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out and if all these funny numbers work in their favor.

 

[wapitibob]

I believe the change to bonus points is for the big 5 only ??

 

[JM77]

I believe the change to bonus points is for the big 5 only ??

At this point, yes that's what they are talking about.

Outfitters on the task force will oppose any change to nonresident PP. IMO

 

[Tod osier]

You have a seat, albeit a folding lawn chair...why the sour attitude?

I have a similar sized seat in the 49 states I'm a non-resident of.

The trouble is, guys like you want the king sized sofa chair in a State you don't live in.

I understand full well that to be a fully appreciated stakeholder you need to be a resident, that is why we are getting our finances in order so that we can join you Wyoming ASAP.

 

[Archer86]

I understand full well that to be a fully appreciated stakeholder you need to be a resident, that is why we are getting our finances in order so that we can join you Wyoming ASAP.

Good plan we just did that this year. I had a goal of being a resident this August so I could get general tags for the 2022 year and I just made the move early August

 

[Wags]

Good plan we just did that this year. I had a goal of being a resident this August so I could get general tags for the 2022 year and I just made the move early August

Which area in Wyoming?

 

[Laramie]

All of you guys moving to Wyoming better make sure your family is prepared for the wind and weather. There is a reason the population has stayed low. An elk hunt isn't worth a divorce.

 

[Kimber7man]

There is going to be a change in points as well.

The direction they're headed is a conversion from preference to bonus point system of some sort.

There is no way that the point system is going to go away, too much money involved.

On the subject of money, I think its high time the outfitters, restaurants, hotels, and other tourism profiteers start paying their way.

We seem stuck on the idea that hunters have to pay all the freight. If the tourism folks (and others that pay NOTHING) want to be considered on wildlife decisions, either pick up part of the tab or I don't really care how changes to tag allocations, etc. impact your industry.

My wildlife is not here for the sake of financially supporting your business.

Further, I've yet to see an owner of any local restaurant, hotel, or gas station attend a work day locally near me. I guess being bothered with financially, or through volunteer hours, is just too inconvenient to help our wildlife that you profit from.

In my world, you want a seat at the table, you pay for it...no free lunch.

Buzz,
I’m interested in this. No malice or hidden agenda, just curious.
What would you propose so that the outfitters, restaurants, hotels, and other tourism profiteers start paying their way?
If we can agree they are already paying salaries and overhead, rent, taxes, and all other costs of owning a business and thus contributing to the local and state economy?
What else could they do?