Wolf information.

[Hard Knocks]

In 1994,the year before wolves were reintroduced into Yellowstone,the estimated elk population was over 19,000.In 2012,it was under 4000.Id call a loss of 15,000 more than considerable

 

[Shrek]

I'll be happily making trolls like the op sick for the rest of my days and will diligently work to make my ambitions a reality

 

[Mike7]

Hey Str8shooter, would you be okay with managing wolves like coyotes outside of Wilderness/Roadless areas? Doing that will not cause them to become endangered and is a far cry from what is going on currently. I hope the ungulates can adapt well enough to survive, but they have some limitations not present 100 yrs ago.

I live in a suburban area and for the first time in 15 years we had a cow moose give birth and live in our 1 1/2 acre yard all summer. That cow had learned to be far less afraid of us and crossing two busy highways so that she could avoid what awaits her in the foothills and successfully calve (she even startled and chased my wife out of the garden twice, as it is amazing how well an adult moose can hide in almost no cover when they want to). Coincidence? Doubtful.

 

[Broz]

Gee, a member for less than a week, has made two posts, and both in support of wolves on a hunting forum. Str8shooter if you are not a troll you sure have the mentality and process down pat. Why didn't you complete your profile? Are you really from Montana? If so I wish you would either act like a hunter from Montana or quit saying you are from here. I see your beloved wolves at work first hand. Forget the hunting, the livestock loss is greater than you and the media care to admit. That is taking bread right out of the heart of Montana, Ranching. Call me anything you want, but I say kill every one we see and then some. Come sing your yuppie cityliver song down where I live and work. Try the Commercial Bar or the Bunk House for starters. You might just get educated.

Give me a freaking break.

Jeff

 

[HellsCanyon]

They should be managed as coyotes are. No bag limit and open year round. They are a badass animal for sure which is why they need to be managed aggressively!

 

[avodude]

I am going to partially defend Str8shooter because he is a fellow hunter and most of us, on here, enjoy the wilderness experience. For some, that would include seeing a wolf. What I don't like is that wolves were forced upon the state of Idaho and Montana with little regard for the people that live here. It seems, that now we've been able to hunt them that the numbers have decreased and this has reduced the pressure on elk except for remote areas.

What I also don't like hearing, like Str8shooter, is that the wolves have destroyed the elk in Idaho. That is just not true.

To rail on Str8shooter and call him a yuppie, etc… does not help the hunter's cause. If anything it splits us up and makes it easier for the anti-hunters to win.

 

[wilkes]

They should be managed as coyotes are. No bag limit and open year round. They are a badass animal for sure which is why they need to be managed aggressively!

I like the sounds of that!

 

[Str8shooter]

New to the site yes, yuppie, no. I know many hunters who think wolves have a place, just not many who will say it on a public forum. Perhaps thats not the best way to introduce myself to the online community, but I truly think hunting needs to evolve beyond the good ol boy attitude of "the only good predator is a dead one." I agree that once their numbers are sufficient (as determined by sound science) they should be managed like coyotes. This knee jerk vitriol towards wolves (and those who support their existence) is understandable in light of recent game population trends in ID and MT but the wave-like cycles between predator and prey are as close to a law of nature as it gets in ecology and we will see herds bounce back. Whether or not hatred towards predators will cycle with it, I am not so sure.

 

[Jon Boy]

They should be managed as coyotes are. No bag limit and open year round. They are a badass animal for sure which is why they need to be managed aggressively!

I agree with this. I think wolves are a magnificent animal and will be going on my first wolf hunt in the near future. IMO they are the smartest and most difficult animal to hunt. Given that, there needs to be a very aggressive management plan for them like described above.

I'd also like to add, I hear people all day long at work bitch about the wolves, and not one of them has gone wolf hunting, and we all live with in a hour or two of large wolf populations. I think this is very common throughout MT and ID, not many want to get out there after the big game seasons have ended.

 

[orionsbrother]

Of course, there's nothing knee-jerk about coming on here talking about hunters "often of the private land and road-hunting variety".

I think you're a lot more off base about the people here, str8shooter, than the people here are about you.

 

[DaveC]

Avodude , so you personally know for a fact that the op is a hunter ? He sure has tree hugger , greenie troll smell to him. I'm betting he has that nasty bug spay smell to him in person. I don't know what that stench is from but damn !

It'd be more productive to discuss this without petulance.

Contrary to internet bubba science, there are plenty of hunters in Montana who don't have a blind, ideological attitude towards wolves.

 

[Broz]

in light of recent game population trends in ID and MT but the wave-like cycles between predator and prey are as close to a law of nature as it gets in ecology and we will see herds bounce back. Whether or not hatred towards predators will cycle with it, I am not so sure.

So just how long do you think, if wolves are managed at current rates, will it be before the elk heard of 4000 in Yellowstone reaches its past normal heard of 15 to 20,000 again? I doubt we will see it.

Jeff

 

[avodude]

Shrek, I don't know Str8shooter from anyone, just giving him the benefit of the doubt. It is in the way that he writes and the fact that he doesn't have much of a history on here that has you worked up. Anyway, Broz, I don't think that Yellowstone herd will be back to those numbers in the next 20 years if ever. They got hammered by the wolves. They were dead meat running. We as humans managed elk for a certain population level and with the introduction of the wolf that number became a moot point without aggressive wolf control. We had a season here in Idaho but the pro-wolfers went back to court and had it stopped despite the obvious fact that they had become established many times over. That really pissed me off and, in my eyes, they lost all credibility. It wasn't all pro-wolfers though, just a few groups that just could not accept that the wolves were going to be killed that pushed the season closure through the courts. Now, I am concerned about Washington and Oregon. With the west side of the cascades the way that is, there probably won't be a wolf season for a long time.

 

[CentennialELK]

It's not just the Yellowstone herd. All of the historic herds have been flat hammered. Most of the large herds have declined around 80%. They claim that other ares have increased..., not enough to right the boat by my count. Wolves have increased by around 95%. How long can the ungulates take that kind of beating. I cover a couple hundred miles a year away from the roads and definitely have noticed the decline. Moose have been hit even harder. Wolves are an incredibly smart animal and very hard to hunt. Most successful hunters luck into them. Trappers have to be pretty tricky and there just are not very many trappers, not enough to make a large dent in the population anyhow. I don't think being a shoot on sight predator would do it either. Coyotes have been shoot on sight for many years and how are we doing with them? Bears and lions aren't even in the same league as a dog when it comes to population explosion and they don't kill like wolves kill...

 

[Sam Millard]

I'd also like to add, I hear people all day long at work bitch about the wolves, and not one of them has gone wolf hunting, and we all live with in a hour or two of large wolf populations. I think this is very common throughout MT and ID, not many want to get out there after the big game seasons have ended.

So very true! I would also add that the vast majority of haters and lovers, with some exceptions of course, have never even seen or heard a wolf Contrary to what a lot of folks think, being a hunter in northern Idaho does not make you a card carrying "smoke a pack a day" member. I take some heat for occasionally arguing against the wolf haters, but l give the same to the wolf lovers, who see them as just a wild version of their family pet!

In 1996, my father in law told me the wolves were going to kill all of the elk, which would allow the antis to proclaim there wasn't room for human hunters anymore. He also told me that Clinton was going to come to MY house and take all of my guns Almost 20 years later, there are still plenty of elk up here. Have wolves killed large numbers of elk in particular areas? Probably, but so did 3 or 4 winters I can think of since then. I also grew up hunting when party hunting was not only accepted, but was almost demanded of you! Our big clearcuts from the 70s and 80s made it easy for a group of guys to take out a large percentage of cows and young bulls from a herd..."if it's brown it's down, there are plenty of tags back at camp". Those clear cuts are growing up and not being replaced any time soon. Lots of the roads leading into them were closed when it was scientifically proven that road densities had a direct impact on elk mortality. I remember when folks had as much or more hatred for the USFS over the closures as they do for the wolf now! They don't want anybody keeping them from killing "their" elk, deer, or moose. I get it, consistently killing elk, year after year, can be hard. These guys didn't want to move or change their hunting habits. I think the same thing is going on with the wolves. People don't like change, but it is completely unavoidable, no matter the cause.

Idaho, right now, has a VERY liberal hunting season on wolves (year 'round on private land). You can buy 5 cheap tags OTC. Get off your computer, fly or drive out here, and hunt some wolves if you like. They are hard to find and harder to kill. You have a much better chance at shooting a bull elk or a big mulie than killing a wolf. No matter what your position is on wolves, we as hunters should respect them.

 

[Broz]

I hear people all day long at work bitch about the wolves, and not one of them has gone wolf hunting, and we all live with in a hour or two of large wolf populations. I think this is very common throughout MT and ID, not many want to get out there after the big game seasons have ended.

I will agree with you on this. Many of the guys running around with a "Kill a Pack a Day" sticker do not even put forth an effort. They may have a tag, and if one gets close to the road they will shoot it, but they are not "after them"

But rest assured there are some that are. I budget $1000 a year for the past few years. You buy a few motel rooms, gas, tow a horse trailer and keep your horses sharp shod and a grand does not go far enough. Keeping track of a pack or a few pair and chasing them to get close enough for a shot is no easy or inexpensive business. But I am doing what I can and I will kill my share. And I have a few friends that hunt them harder than I do or can.

Jeff

 

[Jason Snyder]

Well said Sam. If we approach life with an open mind and open eyes it's amazing what we can see.

 

[wilkes]

So just how long do you think, if wolves are managed at current rates, will it be before the elk heard of 4000 in Yellowstone reaches its past normal heard of 15 to 20,000 again? I doubt we will see it.

Jeff

I am all for predator management.... But I do giggle when I keep seeing your use of Yellowstone herd numbers. 20,000 Elk in Yellowstone were completely destroying the area. Huge tracts of land once covered in trees were left bare from over-grazing. Elk numbers there are now at a manageable and sustainable level or in other words - they don't WANT them to return to those numbers.

There needs to be a balance in the environment and I would not be surprised if stats for other locations were brought up showing proof that herd numbers were critically low, requiring predator control. Either way, the Wolf numbers sound like they ought to be managed aggressively and I am all for it.

 

[ScottR_EHJ]

In 1994,the year before wolves were reintroduced into Yellowstone,the estimated elk population was over 19,000.In 2012,it was under 4000.Id call a loss of 15,000 more than considerable

If you are talking about the Northern Yellowstone herds reduction, better blame the politicians and their management plans too. Hard to keep elk populations high when seasons for cow tags run all the way to February.

Wolves have an impact, but bad management does far more to elk and deer populations.

 

[Hard Knocks]

Sometimes theres not much difference between the two legged and four legged kind