Wolf information.

[Jon Boy]

Well said Sam. I also agree with sreekers. Hearing stories of the late hunt near the park by guys who grew up in the paradise valley made me wonder if the wolf was all to blame.

I don't know about Idaho, but in Montana it was a dam good year to be an elk hunter. Check out hunttalks 2014 elk thread. All the hunters I know who get after it killed there bull, and some good ones too.

 

[tstowater]

We had a season here in Idaho but the pro-wolfers went back to court and had it stopped despite the obvious fact that they had become established many times over. That really pissed me off and, in my eyes, they lost all credibility. It wasn't all pro-wolfers though, just a few groups that just could not accept that the wolves were going to be killed that pushed the season closure through the courts. Now, I am concerned about Washington and Oregon. With the west side of the cascades the way that is, there probably won't be a wolf season for a long time.

Do you people not get it? It's not about the wolves, but the money. Once the wolves reached the numbers that were deemed viable, it was all about the lawsuits and the legal fees generated by the Pro-wolf groups that they are able to extract through the endangered species act and the "technical violations" by FWS, etc. Look at the treasure chest some of these organizations have amassed from these fees and misleading the general public. Pretty good paycheck for those in charge of these groups, and still 501 charitiies on top of it. The wolves are just the fundraising tool and a very successful one at that.

 

[fulldraw1972]

This is not 1850. This is 2014. With the US population at over 300 million. 5% of that population hunts. That's a lot of people out hunting. Every year urban sprawl spreads, so every year good habitat is lost. There are only so many places game populations can live. Mix in greedy politions and more tags are sold when they should be cut.
We have wolves and they have to eat. So it adds to reduce tag numbers.
Mn no longer has a moose season. The biologists were saying everything but wolves where responsible for declining moose numbers. So they started a 2 year study to figure out what was killing the moose. Well after the first year guess what. 70% of all moose killings are wolf related. Hunters can not hunt sure wish we could make the wolves not hunt. Yeah sure we can hunt wolves but with the low harvest quotas season is already closed. Not to mention its a lottery to get a wolf tag.
There is no room for wolves in today's economy. Hunting affects way to many people in today's economy.
Let's not forget we could eliminate every wolf in the lower 48 and all it would be is a 10% reduction in the north american population. Far from being endangered from extinction.
Let's not forget the wolf is the anti's tool to get us to no longer be able to hunt.

 

[Broz]

Let's not forget the wolf is the anti's tool to get us to no longer be able to hunt.

And that is the bottom line right there. Believe it or go with denial, it is coming. And along the way us that live with the predators daily will pick up the tab for those who live elsewhere but choose to make rules we have to live by.

.

 

[HellsCanyon]

! They don't want anybody keeping them from killing "their" elk, deer, or moose. I get it, consistently killing elk, year after year, can be hard. These guys didn't want to move or change their hunting habits. I think the same thing is going on with the wolves. People don't like change, but it is completely unavoidable, no matter the cause.

One of the best posts so far that many people don't realize. There has been a significant decline in ungulate populations due specifically to wolves, no doubt there. But there's also been a huge behavioral change among ungulates as well which makes people think the situation is worse than it is.

I'd still be OK if wolves were gone from the lower 48...

Mike

 

[T43]

Even after all of these threads I still find it interesting that the same people who are so furvently agains wolves havent figured out they are doing the most to fuel the pro wolf money machine. Read through these posts, you can hand pick the socalled hunters whos opinions on wolf control would be printed and attached to the next "They want to kill them all" lawsuit. The pro wolf contingent doesn't want a bunch of hunters who say wolves should stay and be properly managed they make money on the backs of the kill them all crowd and that crowd hasn't figured it out yet. Fill your tags and stop filling their pockets.

 

[HellsCanyon]

Even after all of these threads I still find it interesting that the same people who are so furvently agains wolves havent figured out they are doing the most to fuel the pro wolf money machine. Read through these posts, you can hand pick the socalled hunters whos opinions on wolf control would be printed and attached to the next "They want to kill them all" lawsuit. The pro wolf contingent doesn't want a bunch of hunters who say wolves should stay and be properly managed they make money on the backs of the kill them all crowd and that crowd hasn't figured it out yet. Fill your tags and stop filling their pockets.

I don't agree with this. It's the same sentiment of don't post that your a trophy hunter because the anti hunters hate trophy hunters most of all. Or don't post bloody harvest pictures because it might offend some people. Never been one to sugarcoat my opinion so my feelings on this issue reflect that . And I've been in a few court cases and involved with the law a bit on both sides. There's absolutely nothing in this thread that could be used in an actual court case. While there are still lawsuits happening, sound science allowing the continued management if wolves in Idaho and MT has held up in court. Even Obummer supported keeping them off the endangered species list.

Mike

 

[HellsCanyon]

And yes I'm very familiar with the EAJA Act allowing these environmental groups to line their pockets with legal fees. Same has been happening with grazing management issues for many a year and it's very very ridiculous. We need to fix the system first and that would solve 80% of these legal battles...

 

[Sam Millard]

It is an unfortunate reality that we live in an age where lawyers, judges, and voters can, and do, control state hunting regulations. We as hunters should always keep in mind that a potential future voter is paying attention to what we say, do, or post on an internet forum. I would caution against showing dead wolves in snares, wrapped up around the killing pole...snared dogs of any sort really seem to push buttons on otherwise neutral observers. We have a couple packs of coyotes that roam through our property year 'round. They snag our chickens occasionally and probably killed one of our mousers. My wife wanted me to thin them out. I snared 3 males last winter during the mating season. After seeing how they die in a snare, she wanted me to stop snaring them. She has seen a lot of dead shit over the last 20 years, but this is the first time she came right out and said stop...over a coyote...that she feared and was killing her critters! To me, deep down, dead is dead...but it is definitely different to walk up to a coyote that you forced to strangle itself violently, and one you shot and killed quickly. Just saying...

I guess my point is, don't make the "wolves are the antis weapon" thing a self-fulfilling prophecy. We can hunt and trap them legally as big game animals now. Even killing a couple out of a pack will diminish their ability to hunt large animals like moose and elk. Go out and enjoy it, but remember that wolves are players, much like we are, in this game of wildlife management and public opinion.

 

[avodude]

Great posts Sam. I agree 100%.

Just the other day a federal judge denied requests to stop a hunter/trapper hired by the IDFG from reducing two wolf packs in the wilderness.
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2014/jan/19/effort-to-halt-wolf-kill-in-idaho-rejected-by/

Also, the IDFG stated that their minimum number for the wolf population (a best guess) was 600. That's 83 less than last year.
http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outd...e-senators-skeptical-idfg-wolf-count-numbers/

So hunting and trapping is having an effect on the population. Eventually wolves may no longer be in the news. They will just be another game animal that we can hunt-no big deal. But if we kill too many or too many in a "non-humane" way then we are back in the penalty box. Why waste the good will we have gained from the public, etc. by complaining more and louder about wolves when we, as hunters, are having a positive effect (for us) on the population? I wish I could magically bring back all of the elk for all of us to hunt but that ain't going to happen. Maybe over ten to twenty years the population of elk will return to a sustainable level. We, as humans, have done an excellent job of controlling the environment (sometimes in a bad way-look at all the crazy development in the last decade for instance). We will control the wolves and get them and the elk to an acceptable level but it will take time. What's more evil is the loss of habitat that is going on non-stop. Once it's gone, it is so hard to get it back (God, just look at the invasive weeds!). That should be on our minds and not the wolves (that is a problem that is pretty much solved). I sometimes wonder if the continued crying about wolves detracts from the more important issue of habitat loss.

 

[Jason Snyder]

I sometimes wonder if the continued crying about wolves detracts from the more important issue of habitat loss.

I wish more hunters could get this through their heads. Instead of worrying about whether they are the same wolves as were originally here, they could devote their efforts through RMEF, MDF, etc to get some habitat probects done.

 

[DaveC]

Go out and enjoy it, but remember that wolves are players, much like we are, in this game of wildlife management and public opinion.

Well said.

I find it hard to understand the hunting is dying stance. I know lots of folks my age (late 20s- early 30s) who have recently gotten into hunting, mainly becuase they want to kill their own food. Seems to me that the biggest threat to hunting is the continuence of views on human-wildlife coexistence that are straight out of 1880.