Unfollowing Hunting Social Media Will Make Hunting Better: Matt Rinella Essay

[Idaho_Potato]

I wonder if he’d debate me.

I wouldnt give him the time of day. He physically threatened you and resorted to mostly school yard name calling on this one

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[TL406]

Team “Holier than Thou, anyone with charisma is a POS” vs Team “This is twenty years worth of arrow/bow tuning knowledge for free (ps we sell backpacks)”

 

[Btaylor]

I wonder if he’d debate me.

He commented in a recent podcast about having you on his podcast. If you are game, shoot him a note or call him.

First I will say I havent listened to the Meateater podcast but did read the article. I think you have some valid points but the argument was to broad, lacked context in areas and failed to consider societal/industry changes over the years, specifically from a marketing standpoint. From my perspective, it basically all boils down to the people not the tool. Before electronic communication was a thing, all outdoors media was print. The editors in the print world controlled the narrative, the content and the marketing. As print media has slowly died, companies obviously still need to market their products and thus the "influencer" was born. First through VHS, then TV and now social media. That transition eliminated the editor to control the narrative and keep counter-productive content out of view of the broader public. The influencer is not the biggest problem, it is the lack of a standard set by the industry for what acceptable messaging looks like and then holding representatives to that standard as well as the industry holding companies to a messaging standard.

As for public land, I would argue we need "influencers" to bring to light issues, like corner crossing, over grazing, illegal vehicle use, etc. Because they have reach and efficiency through messaging, issues that in the past may have taken decades to be addressed or opportunities to address them lost due to a lack of general knowledge being spread, can now rally support at lightening speed. That's a good thing and one that would certainly not exist without social media. If you want to spread out the pressure, maybe frame an argument for ending the ability for an individual or private entity to profit from enterprise on public land, one for increased habitat and land management, one that champions access to all public lands, or maybe a unified draw process for limited resource species on all federal land to eliminate preference point issues which highly consolidates pressure.

Everybody want to talk about the symptoms but hardly anyone wants to address the problem.

 

[hearteater]

I would fall into what Matt defined as a traditional hunter. For the most part I agree with him and his points align with my thoughts on the matter. Public OTC type hunting is over crowded and has become far less enjoyable. I appreciate that he has taken a stance on he subject and agree that this is a big issue.

Joe Rogan's elk "hunting" on big money private ranches could not be further from the reality that most of us experience when we hunt. It does offend me as a hunter that he has become an influential voice on hunting. Watch his episode of Meateater on POW and see how he handles an actual hunt (spoiler he was a complete baby). He's not a hunter in my sense of what that word means.

Steve getting to the point here he felt he had to exclaim it's "his Fxxking podcast" was really telling of how he has really let his ego and financial gains from hunting cloud his opinion on the matter. 10 years ago I would bet he would align with Matt on this subject. His points were meandering and overdrawn because at the end of the day what Matt is saying would be really hard for him to debate.

 

[DAOutfitters208]

I make zero money off of hunting in fact I spend thousands of dollars a year to take out new hunters.. Maybe go back a few pages and see my post about what I do with disabled vets and hunting. I hunt/ take vets out on public land only. They get a lot of enjoyment out watching influencers and learning from them. Most are first time hunters. Hunting changes their life, saves their life in many cases. To say that people like that shouldn't do what they do because it hurts your chances really strikes a nerve with me. Some people hunt for other reasons than just to get the meat and there is nothing wrong with that. Hell I get one tag a year if I'm lucky so for me being in the woods to help someone struggling with life means more to me than filling a tag. I wouldn't trade that for the world.

Now hunting and killing are two different things. If you are killing for any other reason besides the meat, I would love to hear an argument defending that.

 

[Elkangle]

I’m trying to get a better sense of what differentiates hunters that are sympathetic to my viewpoint from those that are not. What % of your hunting is on private elkangle? Also, do you make money off hunting? Thanks.

I can't give you a specific %..I did one hunt this year on a private for archery muledeer...I hunted private timber lands for blacktail that's available to the public ? What ever you want to consider that...the rest and vast majority is otc public land

I make zero money off hunting

I also am not a insta star...


I honestly feel like i talk to "your people" in the woods in every state I'm in...its the same Debbie downer convo no matter where I'm at...excuses on why they arnt being successful..how I should have been here a decade ago back when the hunting was really good...its all bullshit...there awesome hunting to be had

There are way bigger problems than grip and grins if one wanted to focus on hunter concentrations

Condone the bad apples on social media but support those giving us a positive voice

 

[Buglebrush]

@Mattrinella

What are your thoughts on public land mapping software lowering the barrier to entry for hunters to find public land? Seems to me like that could be a major factor in public land crowding.

This is a huge deal. I used to go into the court house and research for little pockets of unhunted timber company or BLM land. Now everyone's hunting those spots thanks to ON-X etc... The good old days aren't coming back, and it's no use crying over it.

If you really want to help save the future of Western Hunting then get serious about killing predators. Especially wolves!

 

[JDalton]

The problem with debating you is you go in circles...when someone counters you, you say it's bad for hunting...and then if it's good for hunting you say it's too good and it attracts too many people

You've made it extremely clear your only focus is making hunting better for "your people"...which is a bullshit mindset...your a small piece of the pie..we absolutely need new hunters coming in as old hunter leave...we absolutely need good leaders and voices in the outdoor industry such as your brother, Snyder, or Newburg for those new hunters to look up to...just as we all had our favorite hunting idols growing up...and those guys had some of the best grip and grins...and they printed them for.. money

If you look at Colorado hunting applications between 2020 and 2021 there was an increase of roughly 50,000 new adult hunters that applied to that state.
Did we lose 50,000 hunters from 2020 to 2021 that needed replaced?
I only checked Colorado but I could almost guarantee that all western states saw an increase in new hunter applications so its hard to buy the we need more hunters argument.
In Oregon we just lost OTC mule deer archery hunting and most eastern OTC elk tags over claims of over crowding.
When influencers make videos on behalf of companies on how to use their product to get more tags or where to hunt you lower the barrier to entry which means more people are going to engage in hunting with little to no effort to get those tags.

 

[Nickofthewoods]

Now hunting and killing are two different things. If you are killing for any other reason besides the meat, I would love to hear an argument defending that.

I made this point back on page 30 something of this thread but some hunters are out there hunting with multiple full freezers. I'm really proud of a friend of mine for getting a Moose this year and then turning his Mule Deer tag back in that he used 12 points on. He would have for sure had a good chance on a lifetime buck with that 4th season tag with the dates this year but he had to buy a new freezer just for the Moose. Now, if you are that guy with full freezers and continuing to hunt because you make money from it? That I have a huge problem with.

 

[Buglebrush]

I’m trying to get a better sense of what differentiates hunters that are sympathetic to my viewpoint from those that are not. What % of your hunting is on private elkangle? Also, do you make money off hunting? Thanks.

Zero percent of my hunting is on private. I make zero money. Killed my first elk and deer in Idaho in 1997. Deer was Solo Elk was with my Dad. Been successful in Idaho ever since. Your approach would certainly be better for me personally, and if I was selfish I'd agree. However, it's not just about those of us already successful out west. I'm pretty sure I don't fit your stereotype, except that I don't follow any influencers. I was backpack hunting out west long before social media became a thing.

 

[hflier]

I think Matt raised some really good points, but it is a challenging subject. The thing they didn't talk about enough was causes for increased hunters per acres. There are 3 times as many people in this country verses when I was born in 1962. This coupled with the fact that there is far, far less land to hunt is a bigger factor than Social media in my opinion.

 

[TL406]

I made this point back on page 30 something of this thread but some hunters are out there hunting with multiple full freezers. I'm really proud of a friend of mine for getting a Moose this year and then turning his Mule Deer tag back in that he used 12 points on. He would have for sure had a good chance on a lifetime buck with that 4th season tag with the dates this year but he had to buy a new freezer just for the Moose. Now, if you are that guy with full freezers and continuing to hunt because you make money from it? That I have a huge problem with.

Do you know anyone who ends a season with more meat than they can personally use and decides the best thing to do with that excess meat is to, I don’t know, put it in trash bags and throw it off the highway over pass?

 

[Nickofthewoods]

Do you know anyone who ends a season with more meat than they can personally use and decides the best thing to do with that excess meat is to, I don’t know, put it in trash bags and throw it off the highway over pass?

God I hope I don't know anybody that would do that. Do you?

 

[TL406]

God I hope I don't know anybody that would do that. Do you?

Negative.

 

[Nickofthewoods]

Negative.

...Then is there a story here?

 

[Ozarkansas]

@Mattrinella i agree with you on influencers, but I’d appreciate clarification when it comes to your implicit criticism of guys who hunt on private land. Are you only talking about big ranches when you dog on private land or are the guys sharing a 100 acre deer lease lumped into that too? It seems like all this glorification of public land hunting is also a big part of the problem. If these influencers were showing how great managing a lease with your buddies could be instead of going on backcountry hunts, you western boys would have a lot less competition from flatlanders.

Also I agree with the opinion on here that mapping software and forums are just as responsible for the overcrowding out west

 

[clkress5]

If you look at Colorado hunting applications between 2020 and 2021 there was an increase of roughly 50,000 new adult hunters that applied to that state.
Did we lose 50,000 hunters from 2020 to 2021 that needed replaced?
I only checked Colorado but I could almost guarantee that all western states saw an increase in new hunter applications so its hard to buy the we need more hunters argument.
In Oregon we just lost OTC mule deer archery hunting and most eastern OTC elk tags over claims of over crowding.
When influencers make videos on behalf of companies on how to use their product to get more tags or where to hunt you lower the barrier to entry which means more people are going to engage in hunting with little to no effort to get those tags.

Did you look at the stats of how many of those are non res? because I bet most of them are, which means residents don't see a drastic decrease in odd and they state makes more money. As for OTC thats up to the state and if they were to limit non resident OTC tags I bet that pressure would go down. I blame state agencies being money hungry way over someone on social media.... Hell AZ was PAYING influencers to promote OTC hunting in AZ so they can bring in more revenue. It sure as hell wasnt to help the deer numbers increase.

 

[clkress5]

Now hunting and killing are two different things. If you are killing for any other reason besides the meat, I would love to hear an argument defending that.

I have multiple animals in the freezers and hunt for myself were ever and when ever I have the opportunity to. I also haven't bought any meat from the store in years besides chicken. My dogs eat all trimming that I wouldn't eat and do 100% of my own processing along with showing vets how to do it themselves. I have gone out just to kill something for the meat, I really don't see an issue with that.

 

[DAOutfitters208]

I have multiple animals in the freezers and hunt for myself were ever and when ever I have the opportunity to. I also haven't bought any meat from the store in years besides chicken. My dogs eat all trimming that I wouldn't eat and do 100% of my own processing along with showing vets how to do it themselves. I have gone out just to kill something for the meat, I really don't see an issue with that.

Neither do I. Killing for any other reason than the meat is what I would have an issue with.

 

[woods89]

@Mattrinella i agree with you on influencers, but I’d appreciate clarification when it comes to your implicit criticism of guys who hunt on private land. Are you only talking about big ranches when you dog on private land or are the guys sharing a 100 acre deer lease lumped into that too? It seems like all this glorification of public land hunting is also a big part of the problem. If these influencers were showing how great managing a lease with your buddies could be instead of going on backcountry hunts, you western boys would have a lot less competition from flatlanders.

Also I agree with the opinion on here that mapping software and forums are just as responsible for the overcrowding out west

I think I agree with some of this. I hunted almost exclusively private this year here at home. It's not the same as public. But I enjoyed it in its own right, and since I don't know how long my permissions will last, I took advantage of it. I don't see anything inherently less good about it, but if I'm going to be honest about it, I have to admit that in my situation it is a lot easier than public. I'll eat those whitetails without a bit of guilt, though.

Where I start to roll my eyes is when people try to adopt extreme terms and looks and it's obvious that they are hunting one of those "easier" places. I wish they would just be honest about it.

So much of this is also different east/midwest vs west. It's a tangled web but I really enjoy the discussion.