Taking Equity out of Home to Go on Guided Hunts

[william schmaltz]

I don’t track what each costs other than what I see here, but it seems the stone has been the reason for most of that inflation over the last 3-5 years. It appears the Dall will follow. The other two have gone up, but I feel like they were $50-60k 5 years ago and now at $70k based off your post. It sounds like you have $100k ready to rock if you plan to pay $100k year 1 of your loan. Go down and lock in a price with down payments on a Dall and Stone hunt this weekend. You won’t be able to hunt for another 2-3 years so you should easily have them paid off by hunt day. Zero interest paid, zero risk.

Now you’re only fighting inflation on the big horns. You should have no problem locking in those in 3-5 years based off how you say the loan would be paid. Total inflation paid would probably be $20-30K, a far cry from the interest you would’ve paid. Estimated total years to hunt 4 sheep = 6-7. Estimated money “lost” to inflation = conservatively $30-40k. No banks, no interest, no risking the house.

Thin horns seem to have the lower success rate. I’d do the Dall first then stone and rebook immediately if unsuccessful and you decide it’s still important to shoot each and sheep hunting is for you.

Like 95% of “seeking thoughts and advice” posts on Rokslide, it appears your mind is made up and it was more seeking affirmation. Plenty of good alternatives have been proposed. Good luck on your slam!

 

[30338]

Great advice there.

 

[Happy Antelope]

I love it

 

[Happy Antelope]

This seems unwise. Keep us updated on the hunt!

My thoughts exactly

 

[go4thegusto]

My late Brother-In-Law taught me 2 things 40 years ago that have carried with me:
"Interest is something you earn"
"Never finance toys"

 

[MntHunter]

I think you should do it, you can probably get Marco Polo and Blue sheep this year and get deposits down on a couple of NA sheep hunts.

This is bad financial advice, but good life advice. Enjoy it!

 

[Fishn4eyes]

Personally I wouldn't do what you are proposing but that's just my opinion.

One thing to keep in mind is quite a few outfitters are using escalation clauses so I'm not sure you would actually by able to lock in prices for all four sheep and be able to rely on those prices when the time to hunt comes.

Maybe that is something you can negotiate, I'm not sure but I've heard this more often lately.

As everyone knows, prices are just sky-rocketing and not sure if they will ever plateau.

Good luck to you man, hope you figure out a good solution and complete your dream!

 

[ladogg411]

... but I also think it's BS for lots of others who just want to convince themselves they're sick for it because sheep are expensive and exclusive. ..

100%

I want it because others want it. It must be cool if guys drop $60K on a hunt.

Those high peaks and huge basins are cool. You don't need an exclusive tag to go there and check it out.

A part of me cheers for the Rams that got away from the big spender that dropped $60K on a hunt. And then he goes back the next year because otherwise he is somehow not a successful person.

 

[WRO]

Yup, that $$$ could spit off $10k/yr forever in a hunting fund affording you some sweet hunting opportunities. I know my taste has changed over the years so that flexibility would be nice.

10k won’t buy what it used to.


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[Marbles]

I think what you and many are missing is, the whole point of doing this is to lock in today's rates on all hunts.... not only the 4 north american wild sheep which I already pointed out have collectively increased by $90,000 in only 3 years, but also the other hunts which include asian mountain hunts also appreciating though not as drastically. I will book all of these hunts now, and go on the hunts over the next 2-3 years.

Another thing, many posters are assuming that I will pay the loan down in even increments across a 10 year period. I never said that. I might throw 100K at it the first year, then make regular payments, then throw another $100K at it in year 5, etc. These are just examples, but just because I say it might take 10-11 years....that's a max, and it doesn't mean Im making minimum payments during that time. I have a banker who is going to write it up with no pre-payment penalty, and the interest will go down as the principal goes down.

Now, if you are still with me, go back to why I'm doing this in the first place:

Total cost of all hunts if booked/contract put in place in 2024 + whatever interest I might pay until loan is paid off

vs.

Total cost of all hunts if booked and done methodically over the next decade, one by one.

You asked for opinions, I gave mine. You are an adult, you get to do what you want and live with whatever the consequences (good or bad) are. I don't have to understand, and I certainly do not. Your logic appears more convoluted and motivated for an end now than it did before. If you don't want to hear that, than don't ask for opinions.

If you can put $100K down in the first year, why borrow the $100K and pay loan fees and 1 year of interest on it? If you have $100K to put down, then you can put deposits down on all the hunts now. It will take five years to save the additional $200K you need to reach $300K if you put away the payment amount each month. That is half a decade, not one. Then you have $200K over the next five years to spend on other adventures.

Instant gratification sets one up for a very hard time if things don't go as planned.

I guess once you hunt your last one in 3 years, that is the end of sheep hunting. Sounds pretty empty. People planning to get old and stop being active has always struck me as very odd. Of course, it is what is expected in our society, I still think it is dumb.

Hopefully there is not a global catastrophe that shuts down travel and makes you have to eat the cost of all your hunts in the same two year period. Hopefully you don't get injured and find yourself eating the cost and now having payments.

Sell the house, buy a singlewide trailer, go enjoy life.
Keep the house, take a mortgage, cross fingers that there are not bumps in the road.
Keep the house, have a touch of patients and discipline, have margin in life if things go sideways.

 

[ladogg411]

I think what you and many are missing is, the whole point of doing this is to lock in today's rates on all hunts....

I understand the idea of locking in today's price.

Today's sheep prices are horrible. Why lock in a bad deal.

 

[RdRdrFan]

I understand the idea of locking in today's price.

Today's sheep prices are horrible. Why lock in a bad deal.

We aren’t talking about fuel prices. A drop in the price of sheep hunts would be unprecedented…..

It has never happened and likely never will. If you want to hunt sheep then there is a price to be paid and that price isn’t gonna go down.

In 10 years you will be looking back and wish for the “good old days” when it only cost $40,000 to book a Dall hunt in Yukon…..or $100k for a stone hunt in BC.

 

[ndlawrence]

My thoughts exactly

Ditto. But, if it’s worth it to you, do it. Don’t fret about what some randos on RS have to say. Go hunt.

 

[ndlawrence]

We aren’t talking about fuel prices. A drop in the price of sheep hunts would be unprecedented…..

It has never happened and likely never will. If you want to hunt sheep then there is a price to be paid and that price isn’t gonna go down.

In 10 years you will be looking back and wish for the “good old days” when it only cost $40,000 to book a Dall hunt in Yukon…..or $100k for a stone hunt in BC.

This is also true.

 

[alaska_bou]

Im not saying that this is a brilliant idea. But it isn’t the worst. I can 10000% guaranty that the vast majority of the folks ridiculing the OP on this thread have a mortgage or rent. Unless you are COMPLETELY debt free or you peruse Rokslide for fun and don’t spend any money hunting then you are a hypocrite for throwing rocks at the OP. Because you are basically doing the exact same thing (just in a different order).

I think what you are missing is the fact that a home is a necessity that justifies a mortgage. As much as I love to hunt, hunting is not a necessity, and sheep hunting is not an entitlement. The fact is, it really doesn't matter if the guy's house is paid for or not. That is more or less irrelevent. The only factor that might play is if this guy can actually get a loan or not, using his home as collateral. At the end of the day, he wants to take out a loan to go on hunt. Most of us have wealth to some degree. Does the accumulation of wealth justify our entitlement to take out a loan to hunt sheep? I have about $500k in home equity right now, does that mean I can borrow money to hunt markhor, and that I can afford it? I think not.

 

[schmalzy]

100%

I want it because others want it. It must be cool if guys drop $60K on a hunt.

Those high peaks and huge basins are cool. You don't need an exclusive tag to go there and check it out.

A part of me cheers for the Rams that got away from the big spender that dropped $60K on a hunt. And then he goes back the next year because otherwise he is somehow not a successful person.

To each his own, but If a man is ethically and legally pursuing an animal and or dream im never going to root against him. Part of what makes this forum so awesome is getting to share or read others adventures and the magic that is chasing wild animals in the mountains.

Maybe 60k is nothing to him, maybe he won the lotto, maybe it’s the culmination of a lifetime of disciplined financial choice; why be happy that he failed?


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[MuleyFever]

I think what you are missing is the fact that a home is a necessity that justifies a mortgage. As much as I love to hunt, hunting is not a necessity, and sheep hunting is not an entitlement. The fact is, if you don't have the money for a sheep hunt, you are not ENTITLED to a sheep hunt. GO SAVE YOUR MONEY instead of asking the bank to give you a sheep hunt.

I dont agree with this take. He is not asking the bank to give him a hunt. He is asking to borrow back some of the money he has already given the bank to pay off his house.

My wife and I just went through a similar exercise. I bought a new truck a few months back. We debated borrowing money or paying cash. We decided it wasnt worth paying interest so we paid cash because if we came across a situation where we needed cash we could just borrow it back. The interest rate paid was higher than the interest rate earned. Essentially, we just parked our money to save money.

 

[RdRdrFan]

I think what you are missing is the fact that a home is a necessity that justifies a mortgage. As much as I love to hunt, hunting is not a necessity, and sheep hunting is not an entitlement. The fact is, if you don't have the money for a sheep hunt, you are not ENTITLED to a sheep hunt. GO SAVE YOUR MONEY instead of asking the bank to give you a sheep hunt.

Nope. Not missing anything. If you have a mortgage on your home AND if you are spending any money at all on hunting rather than putting those funds towards extinguishing your debt then you are indeed a hypocrite if you criticize the OP for his proposed plan. You don’t have to like it. But that’s a fact.

 

[MuleyFever]

Not to mention you can rent, and never need a mortgage.

 

[Marbles]

Nope. Not missing anything. If you have a mortgage on your home AND if you are spending any money at all on hunting rather than putting those funds towards extinguishing your debt then you are indeed a hypocrite if you criticize the OP for his proposed plan. You don’t have to like it. But that’s a fact.

Someone who cannot see a difference between only hunting locally because it is cheap, and spending $60K on a guided hunt is missing quite a bit. It is like saying because someone plays low stakes poker with friends they cannot tell someone not to mortgage their house to go play in Vegas. It is a false dichotomy. I guess this is where I say "You don't have to like it. But that's a fact."