Taking Equity out of Home to Go on Guided Hunts

[HornPorn]

You know the old saying, sheep hunting requires a young man's body and an old man's wallet. I'm wanting to go on all 4 of the north american sheep hunts, as well as a few other mountain hunts while I am still physically able. I have cash flow, but not enough to pay $70K+ at a time for a hunt. My house is paid for and I could take $300K or so out of it, get a mortgage going on todays rates, then refinance in a few years once things go back down. If you look at how much hunt costs have skyrocketed over the last three years, I figure I'll be saving money to go ahead and book them now vs over the next 10 - 15 years. In the meantime, I'll enjoy the tax benefits of lowering my taxable income due to the mortgage interest. Heading to sheep show this week and right now this is my plan

Thoughts?

 

[2five7]

If you've got the cash flow to support making payments on 300k at 7% for hunts, I would think you'd even enough cash to just do one hunt every other year or so, and not borrow the money.

Your money, do with it what you like. But, any financial advisor would tell you it's a terrible idea.

 

[100 others]

Maybe pull out less now and do the Dall & Stone sheep hunts while you're young and lighter on cash, then worry about the RM/Desert which "should, on average" be less physically strenuous when you're older with more disposable income.

 

[Maverick1]

Sounds financially irresponsible but fun. It’s your money. The price of those hunts is going to go up in the future (have they ever gone down?). Interest rates may go up or down, don’t really know.

 

[ProStaffSteve]

This seems unwise. Keep us updated on the hunt!

 

[cosmopolitan_redneck]

At the end of the day it's your money and if the hunts are that valuable to you then have at it. Couple things to consider:

• Looking into a HELOC vs taking a loan, there are pros and cons but I'd explore both, mainly the thought on only paying interest on what you need 1 hunt at a time vs the entire amount and not paying fees every time as well
• Call any outfitters and guides you are interested in using and see if they offer payment plans so you can avoid paying the interest (I just listened to a podcast where the guide company mentioned they do this even years in advance)
• Talk to someone who does this for a living there are all types of ways to utilize your money and equity, taking the time to do the research will save you significantly

 

[4cMuley]

YOLO!

 

[ljalberta]

Do you have a family? Either way, it's not what anyone would call a wise decision. But it's particularly terrible if you have a wife and/or kids (or want a wife/kids).

Better ways to hunt sheep out there. Also plenty of guys absolutely crushing the mountains who are past the age of 60.

But, if you do go, I hope you share a nice little write up for us all.

 

[svivian]

Thats such a personal decision that I don't think anyone can answer that but you. Personally I wouldn't but that's me.

If you are serious about pursuing this I would highly recommend a HELOC. I'm happy to discuss this via DM as this is an area that I deal with on a daily basis.

 

[SDHNTR]

I AM a financial advisor. Bad idea! If you can’t cash flow a hunt (or any other discretionary luxury purchase) AFTER meeting ALL of your other financial obligations AND retirement savings goals, sorry, you can’t afford to go on a sheep hunt.

 

[jpmulk]

Terrible idea if you’re asking for opinions.

 

[cbeard64]

I echo the above. It’s a terrible financial move on several levels. If you have a family or want a family it seems very selfish and irresponsible. I can see borrowing against your equity for one hunt to fulfill a dream/finish a slam. I cannot see cashing in your financial future on the altar of sheep hunting.

If family is not involved or in your future that’s a different story.

As an aside, spending actual money/going into debt for supoosed tax write offs is about the worst financial move you can make. It’s literally spending $5 to “save” $1. In the case of your mortgage interest example it’s more like going into debt $50 to “save” $1. (My math is just for illustration purposes but you get the drift.)

 

[flathead#2]

NOPE

 

[Nine Banger]

Call in to The Dave Ramsey Show!

But let us know when it will air!

 

[HornPorn]

As an aside, spending actual money/going into debt for supoosed tax write offs is about the worst financial move you can make. It’s literally spending $5 to “save” $1. In the case of your mortgage interest example it’s more like going into debt $50 to “save” $1. (My math is just for illustration purposes but you get the drift.)

You could do all 4 three years ago for $190K. Now you are looking at $280K. So over the last 3 years, I have already lost $90K, or $30K/year.

7% of 300K is $21,000, which is a savings of $9,000 per year over the current inflation rate in a grand slam. I am going to pay all $300K back in 10, 11 years tops, so by the time I get done paying the loan off, the interest I will have paid will not be significant compared to the savings I will have realized by doing it all in 2025 and 2026 hunting seasons.

What do you a think a grand slam will cost in 2034?

 

[SDHNTR]

You could do all 4 three years ago for $190K. Now you are looking at $280K. So over the last 3 years, I have already lost $90K, or $30K/year.

7% of 300K is $21,000, which is a savings of $9,000 per year over the current inflation rate in a grand slam. I am going to pay all $300K back in 10, 11 years tops, so by the time I get done paying the loan off, the interest I will have paid will not be significant compared to the savings I will have realized by doing it all in 2025 and 2026 hunting seasons.

What do you a think a grand slam will cost in 2034?

Sheep hunting is a luxury, something that is discretionary. A prudent man does not finance such things. To assign $1 of interest expense to the cost means you can't afford it. Someone who could truly afford chasing a slam would never even ask this question. If you really want to see why, sit down with a financial planner and see the ramifications of such decisions printed out in black and white.

If a Grand Slam is important to you, the only solution is making more money to fund the dream.

 

[Walmart Greeter]

Sounds like a great idea, go for it!

 

[Nine Banger]

Do lots of outfitters self-finance hunts for clients? If I was the outfitter, I'd be worried about folks flaking and wanting the money back after they come to their senses since it is not a quick transaction.

Or perhaps it's a money maker if they have a rock-solid no refunds policy, they are good if you go and good if you don't.

 

[wesfromky]

Another thought, if chasing those kind of hunts is really want you want - sell your house, buy a much smaller place, downsize by selling off everything but the essentials, and use the money for the fist couple of hunts while you save money for the rest. That way, you still have a paid for house in case things don't work out the way you think.

The other thing to think about is that the price might not keep going up - a big enough hit to the economy and you might see people selling off already booked hunts for half price.

Chasing dreams is valid. But, with this you might try to find more of a middle way.

 

[cbeard64]

I strongly suggest looking at an actual mortgage interest payout table. You will find that the interest payments are front-loaded. Lenders know the vast majority of the loans won’t last the full term so they are structured this way on purpose. In 10 years you will pay a ton of interest in addition to having to pay back the principal. (Maybe more than the 300K principal.) That’s $$$ down the drain. IDK if that’s true of home equity loans and/or HELOCS but assume it is. Debt for anything other than building a business/investment that will help make you more $$$ is a big fat trap. Consumer debt is the worst of all. The debt you are talking about is straight up consumer debt with nothing tangible received once the hunts are done.

I don’t question your assumption that sheep hunting is expensive and will only become even moreso. No doubt that is true.

That’s also true of many luxury items like planes, yachts, paintings, etc. Guided sheep hunts are a luxury item. (They always have been but are even moreso now.) Just because they happen to be a luxury item you are passionate about doesn’t change the fact that it’s simply not responsible to sacrifice such a big chunk of your financial future for a luxury item.

I have taken the Slam. I drew the desert tag and did two of the other hunts when they were much more affordable. Only the last one (2022) was crazy expensive but by then I could afford it.

I am as passionate about sheep hunting as just about anyone and the Slam is certainly a dream come true, but I would have never have gone into debt to hunt sheep. The stress and guilt would simply not have been worth it.

You can justify anything to yourself if you want to bad enough, but I suggest you step back and ask yourself the hard question of is your sheep hunting passion really worth what you would be sacrificing to fulfill it?