Taking Equity out of Home OP spoke to me - now, me too!

[180ls1]

I don’t know man. I am a huge advocate for helping set your family up financially for life but that can be done through life insurance and other means that take over when you are gone.

My dad died in his sleep when I was 4. Yesterday marked 28 years. I would pay 25K just to be able to ask him if he was proud of me.

My cousins husband went snowmobiling last March and came home two days later in a helicopter after his sled landed on him and killed him. He had four kids. I would bet they would take a 5 minute conversation over 25K.

Make sure your family is taken care of but take the time and spend the money to create memories. It can and does all change in the blink of an eye.

Don't forget about disability insurance bud. Its 2% (roughly) of your income and your income is arguably your most valuable asset.

If you die, your wife can move on. You get disabled, it may take your wife down with you (caregiver) for who knows how long. Then your family is really screwed.

Just something to think about. Its the most undersold and undervalued insurance out there.

 

[IDVortex]

Don't forget about disability insurance bud. Its 2% (roughly) of your income and your income is arguably your most valuable asset.

If you die, your wife can move on. You get disabled, it may take your wife down with you (caregiver) for who knows how long. Then your family is really screwed.

Just something to think about. Its the most undersold and undervalued insurance out there.

I haven't looked hardcore into it, but I've been told you can very easily still get denied benefits if they don't dame it legit, is that not true? I've got a good life insurance policy on myself so if I die all debt can be paid off, and she could buy a home in the area we live in fully. But, I still think of the fact of being disabled. That's something that isn't talked about, and it's not cheap...

 

[ihookem]

Go on a cheap hunt and have a good time. Never cost me much to fish and hunt... My most expensive hunt was $1,300 about 20 yrs. ago. House was paid , and so was the new 4 ac. we bought for the next house. It is way more important to have financial security . I have argued this topic many times. Maybe a few times I was a little sarcastic.. I hear of guys on a different thread ( Lake-Link) and they tell me it is SOOOOO worth it.. I keep telling them, 90 % of households are not even close to financially secure. They talk bout the boat they want,,,but the bank wont lend me enough.. I bought a 40, and it's tough but worth it , just to find they are in a very cheap house and likely an apartment.. MANY of these marriages don't last , and then come whining that their Bi$%tch wife left the divorce papers on the counter and half the furniture was gone... All the replies " That ( every nasty name) you can think of. I can guarantee , many of these people will be short on money come retirement and will need to bow to an ever increasingly powerful government that will control them. I refuse to be one of them that needs this government to eat and sleep.. I love hunting and fishing and it costs me $2,000 per yr. ? with gas and all. You dont need to spend a lot. If you need to borrow the money, you cant afford it.

 

[5MilesBack]

I get your sentiment, but I really don’t think this math pencils out. Need to capitalize some other expenses in there; rifle, binos, pack etc.

A lot of us use those things regardless whether we are hunting or not. But I guess for the scenario you draw up, we'd have to throw in the cost of the vehicle as well.

The bottom line is that we all use a vehicle outside of hunting, we all eat every day outside of hunting, and we all have some equipment that gets used outside of hunting.....i.e. I'd still be shooting target archery even if I wasn't a hunter.

So, even if we count all those things into the $$$ equation, we could just as easily write them all off the first year of purchase. Most of my equipment that I use every year for camping/hunting is over 15 years old. Those costs were absorbed into the equation years ago. So given that, my only costs for hunting every year are tag and fuel costs. An average elk season will cost me around $200-$250 each year depending on the distance. That's pretty cheap meat for organic elk. And my CO moose and sheep costs were $300 higher for each just because of the tag costs. Still cheap meat.

 

[180ls1]

I haven't looked hardcore into it, but I've been told you can very easily still get denied benefits if they don't dame it legit, is that not true? I've got a good life insurance policy on myself so if I die all debt can be paid off, and she could buy a home in the area we live in fully. But, I still think of the fact of being disabled. That's something that isn't talked about, and it's not cheap...

Good job on the life insurance. I remember delivering a check to a widow. I pray that I never have to do that again.

The data I've seen puts satisfaction over 90% for those with a claim. Yes, you can get denied and it's certainly not as easy as military (no hate). They also write exclusions, you can't have back surgery then get DI a year later without them excluding your back. However, they will include everything else.

It's generally bought like this. Would you rather make $84k/yr and be dependent on the state + family should you get sick, hurt, cancer, stroke, etc... or make $82K/yr and be able to stay in your house, pay bills, and have a similar quality of life.

 

[IDVortex]

Ill have to look more into it seriously. It's the one of the main weak points in the if SHTF moments of life and I need to get it taken care of.

Good job on the life insurance. I remember delivering a check to a widow. I pray that I never have to do that again.

The data I've seen puts satisfaction over 90% for those with a claim. Yes, you can get denied and it's certainly not as easy as military (no hate). They also write exclusions, you can't have back surgery then get DI a year later without them excluding your back. However, they will include everything else.

It's generally bought like this. Would you rather make $84k/yr and be dependent on the state + family should you get sick, hurt, cancer, stroke, etc... or make $82K/yr and be able to stay in your house, pay bills, and have a similar quality of life.

 

[SDHNTR]

This is bananas. Another one? The legacy you are actually leaving your family with is simply an example of poor financial decision making. Ever wonder why being broke often seems to run in families? It’s because of this type of thing and the examples taught to children. In addition to those memories, what you leave your children will be the ripple effects of living beyond your means. Make sure it’s worth it. Your choice, just own it.

As was previously said, there are plenty of ways to provide your family with cherished memories without going into debt to do it.

I just took my family to Hawaii for a week. It was awesome, and everyone had a blast. On the plane ride home, my 14 yr old said “Dad, thanks for taking me to Hawaii. I’ll remember that forever. I appreciate it and know it was expensive, but I want you to know, I have just as much fun when we just go camping as a family”.

I’m saying this as a person with 25 years of professional experience in the retirement planning business, and someone who lives to hunt, and someone who could afford sheep hunting. It doesn’t make financial sense even without taking out debt to do it. And all the more, it is simply nuts to finance such hunts with debt.

I’ll say it again…. Unless your every current and future financial obligation, including a comfortable retirement, is already fully funded and complete secure, you have no business spending money on any kind of hunt or other luxury/discretionary purchase. And spending money you don’t have is even more absurd.

 

[SDHNTR]

Debt is a funny thing...everyone has an option about it. People go into debt for all sorts of reasons including car debt, school loans, a mortgage, a second home, a third home, a rental, a new deck, new windows, a vacation. Most people have debt, they just prioritize differently the things for which they are willing to enter debt.

There’s good debt and bad debt. Inexpensive and tax deductible debt to put a roof over your head and to purchase an appreciating asset is good debt. Credit cards, auto loans (usually), or funding non essential discretionary purchases is bad debt.

 

[SDHNTR]

Ill have to look more into it seriously. It's the one of the main weak points in the if SHTF moments of life and I need to get it taken care of.

Disability insurance is a huge gap I see commonly in financial planning. Most responsible people obtain life insurance, yet statistically, you are far more likely to get injured or ill and not be able to work, than you are to actually die. Every family man should have enough disability coverage to replace his income.

Employer funded basic disability benefits generally only cover 50-60% of income and are taxable. Disability funded through Social Security is incredibly hard to quality for. Most people erroneously believe their SS to include disability benefits. Good luck with that. Fortunately most people employed by larger companies should have access to individual supplemental disability insurance via their group benefits package. This is also generally quite inexpensive. Probably a smart call to make to your HR representative. Or if self employed, make sure ample disability insurance is included in your benefits package, along with health and life.

 

[schmalzy]

This is bananas. Another one? The legacy you are actually leaving your family with is simply an example of poor financial decision making. Ever wonder why being broke often seems to run in families? It’s because of this type of thing and the examples taught to children. In addition to those memories, what you leave your children will be the ripple effects of living beyond your means. Make sure it’s worth it. Your choice, just own it.

As was previously said, there are plenty of ways to provide your family with cherished memories without going into debt to do it.

I just took my family to Hawaii for a week. It was awesome, and everyone had a blast. On the plane ride home, my 14 yr old said “Dad, thanks for taking me to Hawaii. I’ll remember that forever. I appreciate it and know it was expensive, but I want you to know, I have just as much fun when we just go camping as a family”.

I’m saying this as a person with 25 years of professional experience in the retirement planning business, and someone who lives to hunt, and someone who could afford sheep hunting. It doesn’t make financial sense even without taking out debt to do it. And all the more, it is simply nuts to finance such hunts with debt.

I’ll say it again…. Unless your every current and future financial obligation, including a comfortable retirement, is already fully funded and complete secure, you have no business spending money on any kind of hunt or other luxury/discretionary purchase. And spending money you don’t have is even more absurd.

Not trying to split hairs here but want to clarify your last paragraph.

Do you think that you should be 100% debt free (including a mortgage) and have a retirement fully funded to go on any sort of luxury or discretionary trip?


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[TN2shot07]

Not trying to split hairs here but want to clarify your last paragraph.

Do you think that you should be 100% debt free (including a mortgage) and have a retirement fully funded to go on any sort of luxury or discretionary trip?


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From a purely financial advice perspective I think it’d be a pretty easy case to make that if you’re buried in consumer debt (student loans, cars, credit cards) that booking 5 figure hunts may not be the best decision for your future. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with choosing not to attack your mortgage aggressively to enjoy some life but it’s all about balance

 

[schmalzy]

From a purely financial advice perspective I think it’d be a pretty easy case to make that if you’re buried in consumer debt (student loans, cars, credit cards) that booking 5 figure hunts may not be the best decision for your future. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with choosing not to attack your mortgage aggressively to enjoy some life but it’s all about balance

Firmly agree 100%.

I’m definitely in the don’t extend yourself camp and that you and your family all have to be on same page. But I don’t think waiting until you’re 100% debt free is necessarily the answer for everyone either.

Only thing I know is tomorrow isn’t guaranteed and you can be gone in an instant. Make good choices and plan for the future, but don’t miss out on living life.


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[180ls1]

Firmly agree 100%.

I’m definitely in the don’t extend yourself camp and that you and your family all have to be on same page. But I don’t think waiting until you’re 100% debt free is necessarily the answer for everyone either.

Only thing I know is tomorrow isn’t guaranteed and you can be gone in an instant. Make good choices and plan for the future, but don’t miss out on living life.


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Yup, tapping into equity is not the same as putting $$$ away per check to spend. A refinance probably cost $7,000 (I am guessing) and the spending associated with tapping into home equity.

People spend home equity like credit cards. This leads to them spending significantly more than if they paid with earned income / cash. Not to mention before vs after interest rate.

 

[ericthered]

Absolutely no hard feelings for any one choosing that path, I love the thought of this but the realist in me cringes. I’m taking the opposite approach, I’m 35 now and the house will be paid for before 40. After that I should be able to fund retirement and cash flow any reasonable hunt I want, outside of maybe sheep and only a dall would really interest me anyway. Sure, something tragic could happen between now and then but I’ll take my chances statistically

The NWT Dall’s sheep hunt will be pushing a $100k five years from now. If you put your deposit down 5 years from now and then actually go 2 years from then….inflation.

 

[ericthered]

Memories with dad are great but instead of leaving the kids memories, might it be better to leave them a lifetime gift? Instead of a bear hunt, maybe start and fund a retirement account for the kids or grandkids?

Young people today are finding it impossible to buy a house. Maybe instead of buying a hunt, give each kid $25k for a down payment. That’s a lifetime gift and I’m sure, in time, they will appreciate it more than a hunt.

My three kids will get houses eventually….with or without my help. My daughters will never get to take an adventure hunt unless they marry a guy who decides not only is it a priority, but it’s a priority for his wife. I think I’ll take them on the $30k adventure hunt instead. Maybe they’ll meet a good guide!

 

[ericthered]

I wonder if most people criticizing this likely have mortgages themselves yet are still hunting?

Following the debt free approach to adventure hunting will leave most people with YouTube memories.

 

[Fowl Play]

Honest opinion, since you asked, you phrase every hunt as if you are doing it for them. I doubt your daughters would prefer to spend 10 days hunting vs say spend a month with you in a villa in Tahiti or multiple yearly vacations with you paying all expenses for everyone. So I would just recognize that you are doing it for yourself. If it was purely quality time you could spend that money differently. Hell, you could pay for your daughters to not work and instead do a year trip with them for the amount you are about to pay.

It’s your money, but I would think hard about the cost. How many years earlier would you be able to retire if you didn’t do it, etc.

 

[ericthered]

To be fair. OP did ask for peoples opinions…

I did. Thank you for replying. There’s really no right or wrong opinion - glad to hear them all.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Hopefully your daughters don't start family's in the mean time.

 

[ericthered]

Don't forget about disability insurance bud. Its 2% (roughly) of your income and your income is arguably your most valuable asset.

If you die, your wife can move on. You get disabled, it may take your wife down with you (caregiver) for who knows how long. Then your family is really screwed.

Just something to think about. Its the most undersold and undervalued insurance out there.

Life insurance in place to ensure everything is paid off should I fall off a cliff or get eaten buy a bear.

I haven't looked hardcore into it, but I've been told you can very easily still get denied benefits if they don't dame it legit, is that not true? I've got a good life insurance policy on myself so if I die all debt can be paid off, and she could buy a home in the area we live in fully. But, I still think of the fact of being disabled. That's something that isn't talked about, and it's not cheap...

another thought…most guys whitetail hunting climbing in trees will have more claims per hunter than adventurer hunters who are cared for by a guide.