Texas legalizes shooting invasive sheep from a helicopter for sport

[RdRdrFan]

Again, if it wasn’t legal to charge money for hunts, then these “I love my private property rights” landowners would be begging for state assistance in killing them.


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“Keep on keepin’ on…”

That’s a whole mouthful of socialism right there.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I apologize for only taking the moment to read your first, but I'm not sure why a "See RdRdrFan response for my position" wasn't all that was necessary. I promise to do better in the future and save your comment for last.

I'll read his later and consider his points.



This explanation is exactly my point. No matter where you go, the common denominator of extreme animal populations is private property and how they prioritize management.

And extermination isn't the same as heavily reduced to a manageable population, I may have used them somewhat interchangeably but to your point, NM allows a few exotics to thrive within a certain core range where they fill an ecological niche and have relatively low competitive impact with native species. Then outside of that do a very effective job of keeping that population essentially crushed, with the odd band of animals turning up here and there.

And I'll admit fault for just generalizing landowners but I'm generally expecting some good will on the part of those I'm having a conversation with to know I'm not talking about the small guys stuck in between major population hubs (caused by landowners who see a value in keeping them around) and who truly want/need them gone (I'd wager not likely not the guys who own helicopters to offer hunts from, but I digress)

But allow me to propose a hypothetical. Say I pay a Texas outfitter $10k to shoot a giant Aoudad. So he drives me around, we find a canyon to check, and there he is...Aoudad of my dreams standing on the opposite wall surrounded by his giant harem of equals, younger males, and ewes.

If I were to get set up, then turn to him and say, "Hey, I hear these guys have a major negative impact on the environment and are super overpopulated. I know my hunt agreement said one mature male sheep, and popping one of those ewes should cost me $4k, but how set in stone is that really? What do you say I put a bullet into him, then you and I unload on as many as we can before they make it over the ridge? Won't cost you a dime, and we eradicate some pests."

He can do whatever he wants, it's his/his boss's land, but what would you honestly expect the response to be?

If it's anything other than "sure," and I knew they had petitioned for this rule in the name of necessary population control, I'm not going to get mad, complain, or lecture how unfair that is, but I absolutely have all of the ground to stand on to rib them about it a bit.

The place I was hunting at a few months ago said we could shoot ewes for 400 bucks each. I’d imagine there would be trouble if you just started shooting every animal you saw.

 

[JGRaider]

Again, if it wasn’t legal to charge money for hunts, then these “I love my private property rights” landowners would be begging for state assistance in killing them.


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“Keep on keepin’ on…”

Right, and IF the queen had nuts she'd be the king.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Again, if it wasn’t legal to charge money for hunts, then these “I love my private property rights” landowners would be begging for state assistance in killing them.


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“Keep on keepin’ on…”

I know it’s hard to understand for non-Texans but you aren’t going to limit property rights to appease one land owner or you, while screwing 100’s. General public doesn’t care either way because You/they most likely will never hunt any of those ranches, you are talking an area that’s solid private land and larger then Montana, Wyoming combined

Essentially it won’t ever be that way in Texas, it’s also same reason some of us have a 5 month deer season and 100+- ranch whitetail tags.

Our state is controlled by large land owners. Those ranches’ top income are minerals(oil and natural gas), hunting, then Ag. It is complete opposite mentality then western states. General public has a big say in western states due large amounts of public lands, just not the mentality here.

This thread exist because I believe the rule to approve ability to charge was an FFA requirement,
I could be wrong

essentially TPWD looks at it as kill all you want , how ever you want on your land. If you want to pay to shoot them like hogs from a helicopter, knock your self out, that’s more dead aoudads.

 

[cbeard64]

Lifelong Texan here.

This is a private land state. You guys that are used to being able to roam anywhere want and throw out big opinions about what should happen on the landscape will find things a little different down here.

You’re not going to do a damn thing about the aoudad populations without the buy-in and cooperation of the large ranches. That’s getting harder to do when they can charge $6K a pop to hunt them.

Which is why I cringe at this “aoudad as poor-man’s sheep” trend that’s growing every year.

As I said above, ultimately it’s the demand to hunt them that will keep them on the landscape. So if hunters are looking for a scapegoat on this issue, the mirror may be the best place to look.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Plenty of other states have strong private land traditions. It’s not that I am advocating for anyone to be able to trespass on private property to kill these animals.

But Texas landowners (and hog outfitters in many Southeastern states) have rigged the game both ways. They get the animals marked as invasive so they can charge people to hunt them year round or from helicopters or whatever means that someone will pay for… means that are normally associated with unsportsmanlike methods that are necessary for eradication, but they don’t actually want the population eradicated or even significantly reduced.

In my simple little mind, you either get to treat them as a game species or as an invasive exotic that must be destroyed at all costs, not both.


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“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[JGRaider]

Plenty of other states have strong private land traditions. It’s not that I am advocating for anyone to be able to trespass on private property to kill these animals.

But Texas landowners (and hog outfitters in many Southeastern states) have rigged the game both ways. They get the animals marked as invasive so they can charge people to hunt them year round or from helicopters or whatever means that someone will pay for… means that are normally associated with unsportsmanlike methods that are necessary for eradication, but they don’t actually want the population eradicated or even significantly reduced.

In my simple little mind, you either get to treat them as a game species or as an invasive exotic that must be destroyed at all costs, not both.


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“Keep on keepin’ on…”

You need to quit while you're behind.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

You need to quit while you're behind.

The snarky one liners don’t actually address the hypocrisy in your position that it is somehow okay to charge people thousands of dollars to kill an invasive species.

And the absolutist, “I can do whatever I want with the animals on my property” is belied by the state regulation of the actual native species.

But hey, who am I to argue with someone’s right to feel righteous for getting paid to pretend to eradicate an invasive species?


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“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[Oakman]

Will the new Texas law apply to duo paragliding, thats gonna be more affordable?

 

[JGRaider]

The snarky one liners don’t actually address the hypocrisy in your position that it is somehow okay to charge people thousands of dollars to kill an invasive species.

Texas landowners can charge whatever they want, however they want, and any time they want to kill invasive, and "non native/exotic" game animals as classified by the TP&W. That's a fact even if you or anyone else doesn't like it. You can play by the landowner's rules or stay home, the choice is yours. BTW, TX landowner's charge hunters to kill predators including mountain lions that kill their sheep, goats, and cattle too anytime they want. You have a problem with that?

And the absolutist, “I can do whatever I want with the animals on my property” is belied by the state regulation of the actual native species.

See above for "non-native" game. Obviously TX landowners must abide by State regs if the game is classified and seasons/bag limits/etc are dictated by TP&W.

But hey, who am I to argue with someone’s right to feel righteous for getting paid to pretend to eradicate an invasive species.
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

You're entitled to your opinion no matter how misguided and off base it is.

 

[cbeard64]

The snarky one liners don’t actually address the hypocrisy in your position that it is somehow okay to charge people thousands of dollars to kill an invasive species.

And the absolutist, “I can do whatever I want with the animals on my property” is belied by the state regulation of the actual native species.

But hey, who am I to argue with someone’s right to feel righteous for getting paid to pretend to eradicate an invasive species?


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“Keep on keepin’ on…”

Do you have an actual, practical answer? Because just calling landowners hypocrites ain’t it. The animals have value because hunters are willing to pay to shoot them.

Just like ring-necked pheasants and brown trout have value even though they are invasive too.

If TPWD makes them “game animals” that will only limit the take and increase the demand.

I can’t understand your mindset. This ain’t public land down here. Absent some dire public health and safety issue, nobody can come onto private land start shooting, trapping, and poisoning animals without permission. Period. End of story.

 

[S-3 ranch]

This is a dumb topic, as it was never against any law to use a helicopter
To roundup livestock or kill exotic species, in Texas
The state owns All the native animals here and regulates how , when , where, number of animals per county
Elk once where native, but now are deemed extinct and exotic transplants
Aoudad are so dang expensive because, we land owners, are required to have
A state permit & insurance to lease the land, we never get a single permit for big horn sheep , so state government removed the incentive to keep aoudad numbers in check,
And having some out of state nimrods , creeping around, leaving gates open
Hurting themselves, driving off the road, ect, ect
Then taking you to court, only leaving a outfitter to be the responsible party
Works