Why you should not take equity out or dump your 401 K to take super expensive hunts.

[2531usmc]

I’m a little older and have retired but still work part time. I raised three kids and squeezed every nickel. I have a great life in retirement because I taught myself financial awareness and financial discipline. I also taught my kids financial awareness and discipline. They are on the right track…

But as I lived my life I saw friends and family members do the opposite. They went through a couple of common stages:
Decade of 20s:YOLO
Decade of 30s: YOLO, but I’ll start thinking about retirement.
Decade of 40s: starting to think about it and starting to plan for it,
Decade of 50s: realizing their work life is coming to an end. starting to feel the real fear of not being able to live off social security and their savings. Worried about keeping their homes
Decade of 60s and beyond. Basically trapped in house just trying to pay bills and feed yourself.

Conversely, if you flipped the script upside down, that would be the friends and family members that scrimped, saved, and invested starting when they were young,

 

[WRO]

Thank god i enjoy hunting anything i can do diy for the cost of gas and lodging. In the end the antlers don’t mean much to me other than to trigger a memory. I realized long ago literally no one else cares what i have on the wall. For me it’s all about the actual hunt. Even if you have the money i think its insane to spend $200,000 to kill an animal that in the end will just sit on your wall for people to simply look at and either say “nice” or “disgusting”. Even those that can appreciate it won’t be nearly as excited as i would be or realize what went into getting the animal they’ll just think it’s simply cool. But most i take downstairs in the man cave barely glance at the game down there.

The memory of 10-15 days in the untouched back country is priceless of the northland is not repeatable, you’re not accounting for that.


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[RdRdrFan]

A lot of good points in this thread. A lot of ignorant posts as well.

In my line of work I see the details of people’s financial lives daily. A few things I’ve learned (that apply to this thread) in my decades of doing what I do:

- Don’t ever assume that you know what someone’s financial position is unless you have seen their financials. Making assumptions based on what you THINK you see from the outside is a dangerous and typically erroneous move.

- One size (or solution) doesn’t fit all. Sweeping statements and generalizations shows a lack of exposure to the myriad of situations that exist. There are a lot of those on this thread including the basis and actual title of the thread.

- Personal Financial Planners are for the financially illiterate. If you have half a brain and can read….you will be better off on your own. A much better plan is to study and observe the habits and actions of highly successful individuals and learn how they make things work. I deal with wealthy individuals daily. Uber wealthy. They utilize help. But it is specific and professional help. Tax attorneys, CPA’s, etc. To a person they would all laugh at the idea of utilizing a PFP. Best way I know how to put it, a guy that can justify a Rolls Royce isn’t going to take financial advice from a guy who can only justify a Ford Pinto. Not saying that all of the advice you would get from every PFP is bad. But it is rarely designed for you to reach your maximum potential.

At the end of the day, unless you know what someone’s financial position is then don’t judge it.

This whole thread is a clickbait response to the guy who is taking out a HELOC to go get his slam. Details are fuzzy but from what I remember, that guy had a $1.5MM home paid for and didn’t have any other debt. He was going to book his hunt on the HELOC and have it paid off in 5-7 years. Based on that limited knowledge coupled with the ignorance of some of the responses on the thread, I’d wager that he is better off financially than 90% of the people that responded to that thread and 98.3% of the people who criticized him in the thread.

 

[KenLee]

I’m a little older and have retired but still work part time. I raised three kids and squeezed every nickel. I have a great life in retirement because I taught myself financial awareness and financial discipline. I also taught my kids financial awareness and discipline. They are on the right track…

But as I lived my life I saw friends and family members do the opposite. They went through a couple of common stages:
Decade of 20s:YOLO
Decade of 30s: YOLO, but I’ll start thinking about retirement.
Decade of 40s: starting to think about it and starting to plan for it,
Decade of 50s: realizing their work life is coming to an end. starting to feel the real fear of not being able to live off social security and their savings. Worried about keeping their homes
Decade of 60s and beyond. Basically trapped in house just trying to pay bills and feed yourself.

Conversely, if you flipped the script upside down, that would be the friends and family members that scrimped, saved, and invested starting when they were young,

What about the ones who are already dead?

 

[Predator_SD]

I’d wager that he is better off financially than 90% of the people that responded to that thread and 98.3% of the people who criticized him in the thread.

Didn’t you just contradict yourself here??? Didn’t you say to not judge people without actually seeing their financials? Have you seen mine or anyone else responding here?

 

[RdRdrFan]

Didn’t you just contradict yourself here??? Didn’t you say to not judge people without actually seeing their financials? Have you seen mine or anyone else responding here?

Nope. Didn’t make a concrete statement about anyone’s position. Said that I would make that bet. I don’t KNOW (and didn’t say I did) but I’d certainly make the bet. It’s a fairly safe bet.

 

[Predator_SD]

The memory of 10-15 days in the untouched back country is priceless of the northland is not repeatable, you’re not accounting for that.


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So you’re saying i don’t have priceless memories???? Seriously, i’ve been at this 40 years man i’ve got an entire lifetime worth of priceless memories. I ain’t just walking out in my backyard ya know.

 

[Predator_SD]

Nope. Didn’t make a concrete statement about anyone’s position. Said that I would make that bet. I don’t KNOW (and didn’t say I did) but I’d certainly make the bet. It’s a fairly safe bet.

Still contradictory to your points man. Wonder if Warren Buffett would plop down $200,000 for a hunt? That guy is richer than everyone on this thread combined and could pay cash. Too bad he isn’t on Rokslide to chime in but my money would be on him saying it’s a really poor financial decision.

 

[TheGrayRider]

“Enjoy yourself. It is later than you think.” Chinese proverb.

 

[RdRdrFan]

Still contradictory to your points man. Wonder if Warren Buffett would plop down $200,000 for a hunt? That guy is richer than everyone on this thread combined and could pay cash. Too bad he isn’t on Rokslide to chime in but my money would be on him saying it’s a really poor financial decision.

Not contradictory at all.

As for Warren Buffett, no idea what he would say. Guessing it would be that his hobby is investing (great hobby by the way) and he’d rather watch that $200M grow than watch sunsets in the backcountry. No bad call either way for Mr. Buffett as he can afford to do what his heart desires.

 

[HNTR918]

 

[RdRdrFan]

View attachment 821898

Great tool to demonstrate the benefit of compounding returns. Not really an accurate view of what it actually looks like in the real world. But I like the point it is trying to make.

 

[180ls1]

Great tool to demonstrate the benefit of compounding returns. Not really an accurate view of what it actually looks like in the real world. But I like the point it is trying to make.

This actually illustrates the "time value of money."

 

[RdRdrFan]

This actually illustrates the "time value of money."

Semantics as the chart appears (haven’t calculated) to be showing a flat 15% return. Same chart can be utilized to discuss either one.

 

[180ls1]

Semantics as the chart appears (haven’t calculated) to be showing a flat 15% return. Same chart can be utilized to discuss either one.

Then why criticize it for not being accurate when you are trying to use it to demonstrate something it wasn't intended for?

Furthermore, you are wrong about the 15% return. The return assumptions are sliding.

 

[WRO]

So you’re saying i don’t have priceless memories???? Seriously, i’ve been at this 40 years man i’ve got an entire lifetime worth of priceless memories. I ain’t just walking out in my backyard ya know.

JFC, I didn’t say you don’t have memories.

I can tell you hunting the remote mountains of Alaska is a completely different memory than hunting the remote areas in the lower 48. (Done both)

I wouldn’t trade all the time I spent in AK and the cool memories I made for more money in my retirement.

I got to go be a part of a hunt in on an OIL tag in Utah this year, that will stick out more than any other memory in my deer hunting career besides hunting with my kids.

Exceptional places and experiences create exceptional memories.

 

[ironworker378]

More and more, each day, I like the sound of a bullet hitting long-range steel over $$$$ on a Head on the wall that no one cares about.

 

[TheWhitetailNut]

There is extremes to all of this.

Someone really close to me owns his own business, he is a multimillionaire through his own contributions plus if he sold his business today he’d net at least 10-15 million. This man frets over a few thousand dollars every deer season and is so stressed from work that he may not enjoy his fortune. My dad is the opposite, made plenty of money over the years and spent almost all of it on hunting/life. He is 80 now and still works some, he won’t leave us much but that guy is happy and didn’t miss out on much in life.

As much as retirement seems so desirable, the amount of people that deteriorate rapidly and get bored of life once work ends are rarely talked about.


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There's a great deal of truth here. For most business owners, the business is the primary source of enjoyment. This explains why your friend frets about the few grand, he just doesn't value it (deer hunting) much. Additionally I think lots of folks misunderstand wealthy people (1st Gen.) the joy is in generating the wealth, not having it.

 

[RdRdrFan]

Then why criticize it for not being accurate when you are trying to use it to demonstrate something it wasn't intended for?

Furthermore, you are wrong about the 15% return. The return assumptions are sliding.

I criticize the accuracy of any of these tables that are presented without context. While the math may be accurate in the fact of 3x4=12, it is not applicable to a scenario when NxY=12. Variables come into play in real life. The chart assumes and fixes variables that are rarely exactly mirrored in real life. So yeah, it isn’t inherently accurate beyond stipulated variables that cannot be controlled in real life.

Fair enough on the return. I looked at the first two years and saw that it doubled in 5 years. That’s about a 15% return. I stated in that post that I didn’t calculate the return.


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[NRA4LIFE]

IMO, 401K's are for necessities and retirement. If you're taking money out of it to fund a hunt, most likely you cannot afford the hunt.