Taking Equity out of Home to Go on Guided Hunts

[Agross]

Not that it matters, but he said his house is worth 1.5 million. Did he say how much he paid for it?. Maybe I missed it.

 

[HornPorn]

IThe entire argument is whether or not to take out a bank loan to go sheep hunting and get instant gratification or to wait and save and sheep hunt later in life when the funds are in hand.

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Swing and a miss. I will book all my hunts over the next 6 months, complete them over the next 36, and by the time I have paid back the note, will have completed the hunts for hundreds of thousands dollars less than someone who spaced the same hunts out over 10 years.

You are the guy who goes into a car dealership and asks about monthly payment….im the guy who only cares about the total cost when it’s paid off.

 

[alaska_bou]

How do you think he paid the house off?

What’s the difference from the guy who finances a boat or a truck while still having a mortgage.

Plenty of guys with mortgages saving up going on sheep hunts.

I’ve already stated I wouldn’t necessarily do it my self but I hardly think he can’t afford it or is broke

Just pointing out the irony of some of the posts.

As long as his decisions don't negatively affect someone else, none of us can really criticize. My point is, if you ask 10, 20 or 30 financial advisors about this idea, honestly ask yourself how many would support this.

 

[sasquatch]

Swing and a miss. I will book all my hunts over the next 6 months, complete them over the next 36, and by the time I have paid back the note, will have completed the hunts for hundreds of thousands dollars less than someone who spaced the same hunts out over 10 years.

You are the guy who goes into a car dealership and asks about monthly payment….im the guy who only cares about the total cost when it’s paid off.

I don’t know you so I can’t validate your claims. However I can second your last statement to the point that VERY few in today’s society understand the importance of the total cost over the montly affordabilty.

It’s the exact reason prices continue to go up.

Vehicles cost too much?? Easy fix, extend the loan for 2 more years and bam, all of a sudden people love the prices lol


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[RdRdrFan]

As long as his decisions don't negatively affect someone else, none of us can really criticize. My point is, if you ask 10, 20 or 30 financial advisors about this idea, honestly ask yourself how many would support this.

Ask 20-30 high net worth individuals about his plan and you’d get some different answers than you’d get from financial planners.

I’m not anti financial planner. For alot of folks it makes sense. For folks that understand money and how to make it work for you….totally unnecessary. The reality is that a financial planner is going to tell you to wear a life jacket and floaties even if you are Michael Phelps.

 

[schmalzy]

I have to lol at the guys saying the guy with a paid off over $1MM house is too broke to sheep hunt

The even bigger irony is that I’m willing to bet that some of that crowd that’s telling him to wait x amount of years until he can pay it with liquid cash on hand then make comments about how the price of the hunts have gotten to high and not to do it.


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[180ls1]

Ask 20-30 high net worth individuals about his plan and you’d get some different answers than you’d get from financial planners.

I’m not anti financial planner. For alot of folks it makes sense. For folks that understand money and how to make it work for you….totally unnecessary. The reality is that a financial planner is going to tell you to wear a life jacket and floaties even if you are Michael Phelps.

Financial planner here. Its actually the opposite of what you think. The wealthy focus on their profession and let planners help out with their financial picture. Its the non-wealthy who don't.

A good planner does way more than just understand money. A lot is about understanding tax, insurance, social security, pensions, conversions, monte carlo analysis, asset location, asset allocation, goal setting, budgeting, estate planning, I could go on.... but its a LOT for even the most studious to grasp inside or outside the profession.

 

[schmalzy]

Financial planner here. Its actually the opposite of what you think. The wealthy focus on their profession and let planners help out with their financial picture. Its the non-wealthy who don't.

A good planner does way more than just understand money. A lot is about understanding tax, insurance, social security, pensions, conversions, monte carlo analysis, asset location, asset allocation, goal setting, budgeting, estate planning, I could go on.... but its a LOT for even the most studious to grasp inside or outside the profession.

I think like all professions there is a huge disparity in performance of financial planners. From holistic, truly capable professionals like you mention to lower tier, maybe entry level guys pushing a few different mutual funds that honestly probably don’t have the knowledge base to even make an educated comment on other investment opportunities/spending like real estate, business ventures and the various tax implications that come with it. Hell even brokers have specialties like tech, healthcare etc.


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[RdRdrFan]

Financial planner here. Its actually the opposite of what you think. The wealthy focus on their profession and let planners help out with their financial picture. Its the non-wealthy who don't.

A good planner does way more than just understand money. A lot is about understanding tax, insurance, social security, pensions, conversions, monte carlo analysis, asset location, asset allocation, goal setting, budgeting, estate planning, I could go on.... but its a LOT for even the most studious to grasp inside or outside the profession.

I’m not talking about the surgeon that is worth $10 million. I’m talking about legitimate high net worth individuals (9-10 figure net worth individuals). The people I’m talking about don’t use financial planners because their focus has a broader scope. And they utilize experts in the fields that you have listed. Tax issues are handled by their CPA’s in concert with their attorneys. Estate planning is handled by other attorneys. And so on. They use experts in those fields.

Several that I know and have worked with have briefly gone down the financial planner route and backed off quickly.

Many people can benefit from a financial planner. High net worth individuals don’t fall into that category (unless they inherited it and are catastrophically stupid).

My original point wasn’t to throw rocks at financial planners. It was to point out that there may be better folks to discuss certain things with.

You want to learn to play golf from Tiger Woods or take lessons from the local golf course pro?

 

[Novahunter]

The equity in your home is a tool. A HELOC gives you a way to access the equity, pay it back, and access it again.

It's not a bad or irresponsible way to pay for a hunt in and of itself. It's how you use the tool. If you need to float the cash for a few months, but can pay it back quickly that is what I would recommend.

 

[Novahunter]

Actually, I 'm the guy who paid cash for my truck, which I bought in 2023', and I paid cash for my wife's suv, and I paid cash when I bought my last new boat and my new side by side. I have titles in-hand for everything. See the pattern? I don't ask other people for money every time I want something. We are a fairly educated family (BS,MS), fairly successful, and we don't need to balance a check book, so to speak. I don't typically boast, but I have been fortunate in my hunting career to say the least, so believe me, there is no jealousy here as others have implied. I have hunted every region of the planet many times over, so much so that just about every major bucket list has been done, so if I die tomorrow, I will die happy from a hunting perspective. So no, you do not need to go into debt and make piss-poor financial decisions to fulfill personal bucket list hunts. I have hunted NA sheep, goats, moose, caribou, brown bear, muskox, etc, etc, about 9 different species of Asian ibex, sheep, argali and tur, African dangerous game, and numerous trips South America, central American, South Pacific, Europe, etc,. And most importantly, I did it all without any loans and without asking permission from a bank manager. We worked for our money. No one gave us a handout, and no one gave us a loan to play now, pay later. I haven't even talked about the fishing trips or the personal travel that I have taken my family on that had nothing to do with hunting. What I am saying is, you don't have to put your financial future at risk to accomplish your goals by making foolish, downright idiotic choices.

I am curious how many of those who think taking out a HELOC at 8% for $300k for sheep hunting have a 4-year or higher college education? No judgement, just curious.

BTW, the OP says his income isn't high enough to afford these sheep hunts, but he is hoping the mortgage interest from a $300k sheep loan will help his taxable income.... Does anyone else not see the obvious irony in that?

Trump's Tax cuts and jobs act changed the rules on HELOC'S and equity loan's. The interest can only be deducted off your income tax if the equity used to improve the property.

 

[alaska_bou]

Swing and a miss. I will book all my hunts over the next 6 months, complete them over the next 36, and by the time I have paid back the note, will have completed the hunts for hundreds of thousands dollars less than someone who spaced the same hunts out over 10 years.

You are the guy who goes into a car dealership and asks about monthly payment….im the guy who only cares about the total cost when it’s paid off.

I'm actually the guy who paid cash when I bought my last new truck in 23', title in-hand, and I have already hunted all over the world for NA sheep, Asian sheep, tur, argali, ibex, every region of the world, many times over in-fact. And I did it all without ever receiving a handout and without ever asking for a bank loan for a hunt I couldn't otherwise afford. So yes, there is a pretty big difference between us. I'm a fiscal conservative, other people just pretend to be.

 

[180ls1]

I’m not talking about the surgeon that is worth $10 million. I’m talking about legitimate high net worth individuals (9-10 figure net worth individuals). The people I’m talking about don’t use financial planners because their focus has a broader scope. And they utilize experts in the fields that you have listed. Tax issues are handled by their CPA’s in concert with their attorneys. Estate planning is handled by other attorneys. And so on. They use experts in those fields.

Several that I know and have worked with have briefly gone down the financial planner route and backed off quickly.

Many people can benefit from a financial planner. High net worth individuals don’t fall into that category (unless they inherited it and are catastrophically stupid).

My original point wasn’t to throw rocks at financial planners. It was to point out that there may be better folks to discuss certain things with.

You want to learn to play golf from Tiger Woods or take lessons from the local golf course pro?

Ok, I see what you are saying but I don't think that is true. Many tax advisors have their securities licenses, same as attorneys. Some of them have their CFP, CFA and so on. You don't hear about the advisors because their business, real estate or whatever takes all the shine and these people don't "need" a 100-page financial plan. However, there is usually someone there who is qualified in their ear.

 

[RdRdrFan]

Ok, I see what you are saying but I don't think that is true. Many tax advisors have their securities licenses, same as attorneys. Some of them have their CFP, CFA and so on. You don't hear about the advisors because their business, real estate or whatever takes all the shine and these people don't "need" a 100-page financial plan. However, there is usually someone there who is qualified in their ear.

Yes someone is helping them but the type of person I am speaking of is not utilizing a jack of several trades. They utilize multiple experts in specific fields.

The original point that is being lost is that someone said that all financial instruments planners would say this is a bad idea and I would argue that there are much better people to listen to than a financial planner. Hence my question.

Would you rather learn to play golf from Tiger Woods or the clubhouse pro at your local course?

See, one of those two options has actually excelled at the subject matter at hand and the other, while likely able to help most in some ways, can just talk about what he thinks would be best.

I have chosen to surround myself with and learn from people who have had the type of success in life that I aspire to. Why would I take financial advice from someone who likely has a smaller net worth than mine??

Once again, not knocking on financial planners as a whole. For a large portion of the population that isn’t financially literate or doesn’t care to learn….for those who want to go to their day job and some day retire and be relatively comfortable then it is probably a good thing.

 

[180ls1]

Yes someone is helping them but the type of person I am speaking of is not utilizing a jack of several trades. They utilize multiple experts in specific fields.

The original point that is being lost is that someone said that all financial instruments planners would say this is a bad idea and I would argue that there are much better people to listen to than a financial planner. Hence my question.

Would you rather learn to play golf from Tiger Woods or the clubhouse pro at your local course?

See, one of those two options has actually excelled at the subject matter at hand and the other, while likely able to help most in some ways, can just talk about what he thinks would be best.

I have chosen to surround myself with and learn from people who have had the type of success in life that I aspire to. Why would I take financial advice from someone who likely has a smaller net worth than mine??

Once again, not knocking on financial planners as a whole. For a large portion of the population that isn’t financially literate or doesn’t care to learn….for those who want to go to their day job and some day retire and be relatively comfortable then it is probably a good thing.

Fair enough.

To answer your question, I would find someone locally. As an ex-professional athlete myself (baseball) the best players are not necessarily the best teachers. I am confident I could find someone in San Diego who would out-teach Tiger. I could find multiple of that person. The goal is to find the person who is most capable of helping you, not the person with the biggest accolades.

 

[RdRdrFan]

Fair enough.

To answer your question, I would find someone locally. As an ex-professional athlete myself (baseball) the best players are not necessarily the best teachers. I am confident I could find someone in San Diego who would out-teach Tiger. I could find multiple of that person. The goal is to find the person who is most capable of helping you, not the person with the biggest accolades.

I would agree with that. I’d rather have Butch Harmon teach me than Tiger. But as a general rule……Tiger would be way better than your average club pro.


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[rayporter]

i can only speak for me. my priority was to retire and be happy. i retired at 51 and had a lot of time to enjoy. i paid cash for my second truck and paid cash for my current house.

i see your argument, about long term savings , too. [but i would not do it]
good luck----do a write up!

 

[DigEmUpPro1]

It’s great to be financially secure but you only get one opportunity to go after your dreams. Sheep hunts are only getting more expensive and most are booked years in advance. If it was me I would build the best plan I could to afford the hunts. You have the rest of your life to make more money.

 

[Quailchaser]

You know the old saying, sheep hunting requires a young man's body and an old man's wallet. I'm wanting to go on all 4 of the north american sheep hunts, as well as a few other mountain hunts while I am still physically able. I have cash flow, but not enough to pay $70K+ at a time for a hunt. My house is paid for and I could take $300K or so out of it, get a mortgage going on todays rates, then refinance in a few years once things go back down. If you look at how much hunt costs have skyrocketed over the last three years, I figure I'll be saving money to go ahead and book them now vs over the next 10 - 15 years. In the meantime, I'll enjoy the tax benefits of lowering my taxable income due to the mortgage interest. Heading to sheep show this week and right now this is my plan

Thoughts?

sounds like a great idea to me! once you go on that first sheep hunt you will wonder why you didn't do it earlier!

 

[Hunter81]

This can be and has been debated for days…. In my opinion it comes down to if you have a family involved in the equation or not. If it’s just you than do want makes you happy. If you’ve got others involved in the longer term financial situation than I think you should reevaluate.