I'm all ears - any info on buying/building points per state?

[Whisky]

Some good info here guys.

I just signed up for HuntinFool. I've also signed up for Hunterstrailhead and bought a subscription to that Extreme Elk magazine. You guys are costing me lots of money, and I ain't even started applying or buying points yet this year.

I only bought points last year for a few species in one state. I'll be looking to do quite a bit more this year. And hopefully get 1 or two out of state opportunities in during the upcoming season.

 

[tstowater]

Some good info here guys.

I just signed up for HuntinFool. I've also signed up for Hunterstrailhead and bought a subscription to that Extreme Elk magazine. You guys are costing me lots of money, and I ain't even started applying or buying points yet this year.

Money well spent. Use those materials as guides, not the end all-be all. Over time you will figure out what I mean. You've only began down the path of no return, but well worth the trip.

 

[rhendrix]

Crap. I don't have the money for hunting fool or extreme elk right now. We're gonna owe 1500 dollars to Uncle Sam this year cause my wife got promoted. Where should I put in for points only that I could apply for a good mule deer hunt in a couple of years? I know Montana and Idaho(?) you can buy points in, I'll also be putting in for Colorado this year but I'm hoping I draw with no preference points. Arizona seems expensive, as does Nevada.

 

[HellsCanyon]

Crap. I don't have the money for hunting fool or extreme elk right now. We're gonna owe 1500 dollars to Uncle Sam this year cause my wife got promoted. Where should I put in for points only that I could apply for a good mule deer hunt in a couple of years? I know Montana and Idaho(?) you can buy points in, I'll also be putting in for Colorado this year but I'm hoping I draw with no preference points. Arizona seems expensive, as does Nevada.

Idaho has no preference points and you have to buy the hunting license which is nonrefundable. If you aren't planning on hunting it OTC than you gotta consider if the $160 or so for the license is worth the possibility of not getting a point and not drawing anything.

Mike

 

[bigeasygator]

Crap. I don't have the money for hunting fool or extreme elk right now. We're gonna owe 1500 dollars to Uncle Sam this year cause my wife got promoted. Where should I put in for points only that I could apply for a good mule deer hunt in a couple of years? I know Montana and Idaho(?) you can buy points in, I'll also be putting in for Colorado this year but I'm hoping I draw with no preference points. Arizona seems expensive, as does Nevada.

I think there is always uncertainty as to whether you can buy points in Montana without applying but I think they usually let you. If the unit you're looking at in Colorado is 100% draw with 0 points consider putting that unit as a second choice and putting a harder to draw unit as your first so you can build points. My recommendation is to apply for as much as you can. Nevada is expensive if you just apply for one species...but not if you apply for more. In Nevada you can apply for deer, elk, goat, rocky mountain bighorn, California bighorn, and desert bighorn...once you buy a license each species (and bonus point) is only $10 or $20. It's also one of the few (maybe only?) state that lets you apply for more than one sheep species. Lastly, Nevada is a bonus point squared system so you can draw at any time...in other words, Nevada is at the top of my list of must apply to states! Like we've said, there are lots of details that are hard to capture in a single post!

 

[bigeasygator]

And as far as mule deer specific, Colorado, Wyoming, Arizona, Utah and Nevada would be the states I'd focus on with Wyoming and Colorado your best bet at pulling a decent unit with a few points in my opinion.

 

[rhendrix]

For some reason I was under the impression Idaho did bonus or preference points, wish I knew which state I was thinking of now. Crap.

 

[tstowater]

And as far as mule deer specific, Colorado, Wyoming, Arizona, Utah and Nevada would be the states I'd focus on with Wyoming and Colorado your best bet at pulling a decent unit with a few points in my opinion.

Agreed. Some of the units in the other states are practically impossible to draw. Some of these states do offer "non-draw" tags with different bells and whistles. Usually aren't cheap, but at least give you some certainty of when you are going.

 

[rhendrix]

If I put in for a unit as my first choice in CO for mule deer and do not get it, but do get the second choice and take it, will I get a PP still? I was under the impression I wouldn't.

So far I'm planning on applying to CO, WY, UT, and MT. If I have the money I'll try to I'll apply in NV, gonna go for deer and elk in all four states, in 2-3 years my options should become pretty good at being able to get a quality deer or elk tag every year or two. Sound about right?

 

[shanevg]

If I put in for a unit as my first choice in CO for mule deer and do not get it, but do get the second choice and take it, will I get a PP still? I was under the impression I wouldn't.

So far I'm planning on applying to CO, WY, UT, and MT. If I have the money I'll try to I'll apply in NV, gonna go for deer and elk in all four states, in 2-3 years my options should become pretty good at being able to get a quality deer or elk tag every year or two. Sound about right?

Like other have said - be sure to pay attention to how much extra it costs to apply for additional species in states. In CO, WY, and MT you can apply for just one species at a time but in UT and NV the largest cost of applying is the non-refundable hunting license so if you invest the $80 (in UT) or $150ish (in NV) to apply for just deer and elk, you might as well invest the $110 (UT) or $200 (NV) to apply for every single species the state has to offer. NV is probably your best chance to ever draw a desert sheep tag if you build your points up and UT has some great sheep, moose, mountain goat, and buffalo hunts.

 

[blb078]

So far I've already put in for WY(elk, will do deer too), AZ(elk), (antelope point), Maine & NH moose point. Plan on putting in for points and/or tags in UT, CO, MT, and I'm on the fence with NM and NV. And for those that really want to hunt moose and don't care if it's out west or not I'd highly recommend you put in for VT, NH, ME. It's very cheap points are only $15-$25 and there is no upfront tag cost or anything just a that small fee for the point depending on state, and if drawn the moose tags are $500-600.

 

[bigeasygator]

If I put in for a unit as my first choice in CO for mule deer and do not get it, but do get the second choice and take it, will I get a PP still? I was under the impression I wouldn't.

So far I'm planning on applying to CO, WY, UT, and MT. If I have the money I'll try to I'll apply in NV, gonna go for deer and elk in all four states, in 2-3 years my options should become pretty good at being able to get a quality deer or elk tag every year or two. Sound about right?

As to the PP question, if you don't draw your first choice you keep your PP in Colorado. This means if you buy an OTC tag or pull your second (or third) choice you still keep your PP.

And as to the second part of your question it all depends on what you want to do. I'd take a slightly different strategy than you. One, if you're interested in sheep put in for every sheep tag you can. As for deer, CO, WY, and NV for sure. Utah and Arizona are great as well but you're probably looking at a 20 year wait to draw tags there (though it can happen sooner). For elk if always be applying to NM, while I build points in WY, NV, UT, and AZ. Again, UT and AZ are probably gonna be your longest waits. If you're only looking at drawing the best tags, think every 10-20 years for deer and elk. That being said, there are great units in CO and WY for deer that you could draw every few years. And there are units in the other states that you wouldn't have to wait that long.

For some perspective, one of the top elk units in AZ is unit 10. All seven NR tags went to people with at least 18 points for the rifle draw and 20 NR tags went to people with at least 10 points for the archery draw. In Utah, the Paunsaugunt archery deer hunt required 13 points to guarantee you one of the two tags. Your odds in the random draw without respect to bonus points was 1 in 250.

Should we start discussing point creep??

 

[tstowater]

The bad part about points is that the more you get, the more concerned you have about the quality issue and not just opportunity. Example, there are now quite a few people sitting on max points for elk and deer in Wyoming and some are still putting in for points only. Why? Not sure where to go, don't have time, concerned about getting the unit they want. If you want to hunt and are not concerned necessarily about quality, then don't worry about points for elk, deer and antelope as there should be an opportunity every year to hunt somewhere without points. Points are generally needed (exceptions; NM and Idaho) to get certain species. In Colorado, you will need to apply 4 years at a minimum to get a sheep, moose or goat tag. Points are for the long term, but you also need to look at the mountain of people ahead of you. Even in Nevada where they square your points, 15 years of points equals 226 chances vs. 5 years equals 26 chances (points squared plus 1). Who has a better chance of drawing? That said, you can draw the first year and people have.

Let's not talk about point creep as the publications that have been mentioned earlier have contributed to that. IMO.

 

[bigeasygator]

Let's not talk about point creep as the publications that have been mentioned earlier have contributed to that. IMO.

it's important for people to understand what it is and incorporate it into their strategy. Simply put, what may take 15 points to draw now may take 30-35 points 20 years from now given the limited tags and number of people in line. Even more simply put, there are tags you'll probably never draw even if you wait (unless something changes).

And while the publications hurt certain units, they also help with others (people tend to flock to what they call the best leaving other tremendous units easier to draw).

 

[wapitibob]

"All seven NR tags went to people with at least 18 points for the rifle draw and 20 NR tags went to people with at least 10 points for the archery draw."

While technically correct, that assumes a NR had a chance at a tag with 10 points and that would not be the case. It's a lot worse than HF makes it sound.

"Simply put, what may take 15 points to draw now may take 30-35 points 20 years from now given the limited tags and number of people in line. Even more simply put, there are tags you'll probably never draw even if you wait (unless something changes)."

That's the main thing people just getting started don't seem to grasp.

 

[shanevg]

"Simply put, what may take 15 points to draw now may take 30-35 points 20 years from now given the limited tags and number of people in line. Even more simply put, there are tags you'll probably never draw even if you wait (unless something changes)."

That's the main thing people just getting started don't seem to grasp.

I agree. You need to look at the math on different hunts. Mathematically, there is really no point to apply for sheep and moose in WY if you are just starting unless the 1/50 (for moose) or 1/200 (for sheep) random odds seem to justify the $100/yr preference point fee. Almost every state has hunts that are not worth hoping for as point creep will make them essentially impossible to hunt unless that state changes their regulations. With that said - point creep also helps other units. For example, AZ has some archery elk or sub-par sheep units that draw odds if anything have improved on because once people get enoguh points they feel like they have invested too much to apply for a "sub-par" unit.

The simple fact is that the point game is as much a game of psychology as it is of mathematics and money. You need to find those hunts that are good enough to get a trophy or have a fun time hunting without necessarily being the best unit in the state.

The more you play the game, the more you will come to appreciate ID and NM for not having preference points!

 

[bigeasygator]

The simple fact is that the point game is as much a game of psychology as it is of mathematics and money. You need to find those hunts that are good enough to get a trophy or have a fun time hunting without necessarily being the best unit in the state.

The more you play the game, the more you will come to appreciate ID and NM for not having preference points!

That's why I get most excited for the Idaho and New Mexico draws. I'm changing my strategy for sheep this year and putting in for better odds units. I decided a 150 class sheep would make me more than happy

The publications like HF don't really capture the odds that well. I realized that this year for NV desert sheep. I applied in the top unit and their odds were something like 1 in a 1000. When you start calculating how many people with 20 bonus points (and 19, 18, 17...) put in, you quickly see that your odds were closer to one in 50,000 (with zero points). Like I said, I realized I'm ok if I don't kill a world record desert sheep!

 

[tstowater]

As you can see, the whole process can become discouraging if you don't have a clear understanding of what you are after (trophy defined) and go into it with your eyes open. Every year I look at where I sit in Wyoming sheep points and ask myself why the h*** I'm dumping another $100 into a longshot. As the boys in HF says, someone is going to draw, so it might as well be me. Only thing scarier would be to draw so many quality tags that you possibly can't go on all the hunts.

 

[bigeasygator]

"All seven NR tags went to people with at least 18 points for the rifle draw and 20 NR tags went to people with at least 10 points for the archery draw."

While technically correct, that assumes a NR had a chance at a tag with 10 points and that would not be the case. It's a lot worse than HF makes it sound.

You do have a chance to draw that tag with less than 10 points. You can draw it with zero points. 50% of Utah LE tags go to the person with the most points, the remaining 50% are chosen by a random draw. It's not a good chance, but it's a chance. The HF says the random odds are 1 in 250, but that doesn't count bonus points so it's worse than that. But, again, it's still possible.

 

[rhendrix]

As you can see, the whole process can become discouraging if you don't have a clear understanding of what you are after (trophy defined) and go into it with your eyes open. Every year I look at where I sit in Wyoming sheep points and ask myself why the h*** I'm dumping another $100 into a longshot. As the boys in HF says, someone is going to draw, so it might as well be me. Only thing scarier would be to draw so many quality tags that you possibly can't go on all the hunts.

So is defining what a trophy is to you the first step, cause I'll be honest, I'm thoroughly confused as to where I should and should not apply.