Ice/snow comparison between rifles

[fwafwow]

Tangential question - do Cooper rifles use a Remington 700 trigger?

 

[amassi]

Tangential question - do Cooper rifles use a Remington 700 trigger?

Yes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Marbles]

Tangential question - do Cooper rifles use a Remington 700 trigger?

I'm pretty sure they do not, but have never had one in hand.

Only one aftermarket company makes a trigger for Cooper rifles. Lots of companies make triggers for Remington 700s.

The triggers look very different.
JARD Cooper trigger


JARD Remington 700 trigger

 

[Jimbee]

The biggest thing that I’ve seen is to fully- and I mean FULLY- bed the action area and barrel shank, and generously free float the barrel. I would also bed (I permanently glued) the bottom metal. Basically take the entire action, trigger, and bottom metal area and cover it completely in beding so that all the wood is covered.

Functionally it turns the action area into a mini chassis and I have not seen any issue at all from the wood with heavy use in very nasty weather.

Are you able to swap barrels via an internal action wrench, or haven't you rebarreled since you bedded/glued the bottom metal?

 

[4th_point]

While it isn't the subject of this thread at all, the only thing that really gives me pause on a Tikka is the amount of gas that comes back at a shooter. On two 6.5 CMs using starting loads from Hornady's manual for their 100 grain bullets, a strong blast of gas was the result when cases weren't expanding enough to seal the chamber. While rare, it would seem that a case split or separation, or popped primer would be pretty bad.

Thanks for the info. Stray gas handling of the T3 is a pet peeve of mine, and your experience illustrates why... gas directed at the shooter.

That stated, there's no one perfect rifle design out there. They each have pros and cons. For example, the Savage 110 has gas baffles at the front and rear of the bolt body, but all of mine had feeding issues. The M70 CRF eliminated the C-ring of the 98 with a coned breech, which allows stray gas down the left raceway, and when Winchester reintroduced the CRF they added a sacrificial baffle to the bolt body but some astute shooters have stated that the baffle isn't very effective and still allows gas to travel down that path. Mauser designed the 98 with the C-ring to prevent that.

I have an S20 and like the design a little bit more than the T3, but simple visual review isn't the same as experiencing 60k+ PSI going someplace that it's not supposed to. I'm mostly concerned with case failures, and not blown primers or obstructions. Most bolt bodies have transverse vent holes, but sometimes the path of least resistance is out the back of the bolt. Unobstructed gas down the left raceway is headed towards the shooter's face and eyeball. The 98 has a flange to divert the gas. Savage has that ugly baffle!

Anyway, glad that you just got gassed and nothing severe like stray particles.

 

[longrange13]

Your dedication to testing is much appreciated. Really good information.

 

[Igloo]

Thanks for the info. Stray gas handling of the T3 is a pet peeve of mine, and your experience illustrates why... gas directed at the shooter.

That stated, there's no one perfect rifle design out there. They each have pros and cons. For example, the Savage 110 has gas baffles at the front and rear of the bolt body, but all of mine had feeding issues. The M70 CRF eliminated the C-ring of the 98 with a coned breech, which allows stray gas down the left raceway, and when Winchester reintroduced the CRF they added a sacrificial baffle to the bolt body but some astute shooters have stated that the baffle isn't very effective and still allows gas to travel down that path. Mauser designed the 98 with the C-ring to prevent that.

I have an S20 and like the design a little bit more than the T3, but simple visual review isn't the same as experiencing 60k+ PSI going someplace that it's not supposed to. I'm mostly concerned with case failures, and not blown primers or obstructions. Most bolt bodies have transverse vent holes, but sometimes the path of least resistance is out the back of the bolt. Unobstructed gas down the left raceway is headed towards the shooter's face and eyeball. The 98 has a flange to divert the gas. Savage has that ugly baffle!

Anyway, glad that you just got gassed and nothing severe like stray particles.

Thank you!
I'm sure when the case swells enough to seal the chamber perhaps its a whole other story but no rifle besides the Tikka has really done that to me yet.
The Model 70 Push Feed seems to be a better gas handler than any of the CRF versions?

 

[medvedyt]

when i guided in northern quebec in the fall for caribou the worst issues we had were with remington 700 for freezing under freezing rain and issues were happening more often than any others and the tikka t3x worked great.
on another notes few users of tikka t3 got issues while hunting bison in the yukon with snow and ice blocking the action and the firing pin but never happened to me.

 

[akbound4]

Does anyone have any input on how a Weatherby Mark V action might function in this test regarding icing conditions, extreme cold, and drop safety?

 

[Marbles]

Does anyone have any input on how a Weatherby Mark V action might function in this test regarding icing conditions, extreme cold, and drop safety?

See post #62 in this thread.

 

[akbound4]

Thanks, I guess I was mentally grouping the Weatherby Vanguard’s in that group b/c of the similarities to the Howa but you’re right, it just says Weatherby. Perhaps the Mark V is in the same bucket of low performance in these conditions.

 

[Formidilosus]

Does anyone have any input on how a Weatherby Mark V action might function in this test regarding icing conditions, extreme cold, and drop safety?

Not fantastic, however it has been a long time since I have seen any really used beyond bluebird days.

 

[ACHILLES]

Form, have you ever done any testing regarding tikka triggers and fine dust or sand? I’ve learned that jewell Rem 700 triggers and dust don’t mix.
Just curious as I’ve seen windy dusty days shut down bolt rifles at competitions in Texas and Oklahoma. Not just the trigger but lock up the bolt too.

 

[Formidilosus]

Form, have you ever done any testing regarding tikka triggers and fine dust or sand? I’ve learned that jewell Rem 700 triggers and dust don’t mix.
Just curious as I’ve seen windy dusty days shut down bolt rifles at competitions in Texas and Oklahoma. Not just the trigger but lock up the bolt too.

Lots. T3 triggers are much, much more resilient in sand, dust, debris, snow, ice.

 

[akbound4]

Thank you Form. Another follow up question. Could one expect the new Sako 90 trigger/action with its hex wrench adjustability and modifications to the action to continue the Sako tradition of being a good performer in these conditions?

 

[Formidilosus]

Thank you Form. Another follow up question. Could one expect the new Sako 90 trigger/action with its hex wrench adjustability and modifications to the action to continue the Sako tradition of being a good performer in these conditions?

Probability is that they are fine, however I do not have experience with them.

 

[HighUintas]

I had my Tikka out in the weather the last few days and had the trigger malfunction for a period of time.

It was a backpack hunt and the rifle stayed outside the whole time. It was not covered in a rifle slicker or under a tarp; it was exposed to the weather the whole time. Day 1 bad of bad weather the temps dropped to around freezing and it dropped about 4-5 inches of wet snow. The gun was stood muzzle up under a pine tree at night. Day 2 of bad weather was basically wet snow/freezing rain type precip all day. Overnight low was about 15. Gun was stood up under a pine at night.

Day 3, ran the bolt. It was sticky and binding. The trigger may have worked once (it had an odd sound when dry firing) but then would get a slam fire when closing the bolt thereafter, every time. * May not be a true slam fire because no cartridge was in the chamber. But it seemed to dry fire when closing the bolt. The safety seemed to work when removing the bolt. The trigger return spring seemed frozen up. The bolt would close without firing as long as I pushed the trigger forward before closing the bolt. The trigger would then work once. But the trigger had to be manipulated this way every time. It took about 30-45 minutes of fiddling with it, probably more time just holding/carrying it to warm it up as much as I could but I don't think that did anything. The trigger then finally returned to normal function after working it back and forth for awhile.

*** One other minor detail... I have one of those aftermarket lighter springs in my trigger. That could be the cause.... With the factory trigger spring, maybe it would have been more resistant to the issue.

 

[Formidilosus]

but then would get a slam fire when closing the bolt thereafter, every time.

Actually firing upon closing, as in rounds went off? Or it wouldn’t stay cocked?

Anything is possible, however I have seen dozens purposely tried to be made to fail and have never been able to make one fire on closing. Sometimes it seems like it would fire by the sound, but they have never actually fired the round.

 

[Formidilosus]

Day 3, ran the bolt. It was sticky and binding. The trigger worked once, but then would get a slam fire when closing the bolt thereafter, every time.

Do you close the bolt on an empty chamber and drop the firing pin, safety off?

 

[HighUintas]

Actually firing upon closing, as in rounds went off? Or it wouldn’t stay cocked?

Anything is possible, however I have seen dozens purposely tried to be made to fail and have never been able to make one fire on closing. Sometimes it seems like it would fire by the sound, but they have never actually fired the round.

I didn't have a cartridge in the chamber, so I guess you can't truly call it a slam fire. When closing the bolt, it didn't stay cocked and the cocking/firing pin indicator moved forward as it does when firing. It sounded like it releases with as much force as correctly operating dry fire.

Do you close the bolt on an empty chamber and drop the firing pin, safety off?

I'm second guessing my memory on it working the first time I pulled the trigger after cycling the bolt.... I'll edit that part. I think it worked but the firing pin drop sounded really weak. The bolt was already cocked and the gun hadn't been manipulated at all for a couple of days. Cycled bolt, roughly, pulled trigger and it sounded weird.

Then, it seemed as if the bolt came uncocked, or released the firing pin (slam fire) when closing, unless I pushed the trigger forward into the set correct set position prior to closing the bolt.

Safety off, since you can't really cycle the bolt with the safety on.