Formidilosus
Super Moderator
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2014
- Messages
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I have been asked by multiple people to do an ice and snow reliability eval between rifles/actions/triggers. Tthis is not a “test”, it is just a view at what generally happens. Doing a legitimate test requires more rifles and consistent conditions than I have. So…
The rifles:
1). Tikka T3 in KRG Bravo chassis
2). Sauer 100 factory
3). Howa 1500 Alpine factory
4). Remington M7 with TT trigger and Bansner stock
5). Winchester Pre 64 M70 factory
6). Tikka T3 factory
7). Sako TRG 42 factory
This will be done in multiple steps, worst case working back back to easy to see any differences that show themselves. Every rifle is started in exactly the same condition- empty chamber, closed bolt, safety on, magazine loaded and/or inserted.
1: Total Failure
8oz of water poured directly into action, trigger, and magazine; then rifle is dropped in snow, covered for 10 min. After ten minutes
, rifles were pulled out of snow and set standing upright for ten minutes. Temperature was -11°F.
The first portion is designed for none of them to work- it is a total failure event.
Unsurprisingly none of them worked.
1). T3/Bravo safety moved, was bolt would not move rearward past halfway back. Trigger frozen completely. Magazine could be removed after breaking ice.
2). Sauer 100 had a completely frozen trigger and safety did not unlock tigger or bolt. Magazine could be removed after breaking ice.
3). Howa everything locked up- safety, bolt, trigger. Floor plate was opened after breaking ice and prying.
4). M7 TT was able to scrape ice off and work bolt. Magazine did not feed. After breaking and scraping ice, and bashing release latch, got floor plate open and dumped rounds after breaking ice. Hammered bolt open and dropped one round into chamber. It fired. After that it continued to slam fire- rifle fired with no activation of trigger when was bolt closed. Could not do anything to fix.
5). Win M70 Pre 64- Safety worked, trigger moved, bolt handle rotated but bolt would not move rearward at all. Was able to scrape and hammer open the floor plate.
6). T3 factory- safety was locked on safe. Bolt would not move. Trigger was locked. Magazine could be removed after breaking ice.
7). Sako TRG42- everything locked up as safety could not be moved. Magazine could be removed after scraping ice.
Following this, all rifles were placed inside the cab of the truck and driven back for approximately 12 min before being brought inside a 65° building to thaw and being checked every 5 minutes with a primed case.
Rifles will be listed in order that they returned to fully functioning.
1). T3 factory worked correctly in all aspects with a sticky bolt as soon as pulled from the truck. 30 min total.
2). Winchester Pre 64 started cycling first, trigger still didn’t work until 1 hour and 5 minutes.
3). Sako TRG42, once safety could be moved, rifle worked fully. 1 hour 5 minutes.
4). Tikka T3/Bravo. 1 hour 5 minutes.
5). Sauer 100, once trigger and safety started working, rifle functioned correctly. 1 hour 25 minutes.
6). Howa 1500, once safety could be moved, rifle worked correctly. 1 hour 30 minutes.
7). Remington M7 with Trigger Tech trigger. Rifle fired in sub 5 minutes, trigger slam fired until 1 hour 53 minutes.
None of the rifles worked correctly out of the snow. The only one that fired was the Remington and it remained unsafe for nearly two hours. The first rifle to work correctly was the factory Tikka T3.
As no rifle was expected to work from this trial, nothing is surprising. The main takeaways are how fast the factory T3 came back, how long the Remington remained unsafe, and how long it took the Howa and Sauer’s safeties to work.
Next will be 4 ounces of water and no snow….
Con’t….
So a slight change due to some snow fall. Rifles were taken from the 60°F building to outside and placed in a table letting the snow fall for 4 hours.
All rifles worked fine except the Remington and Sako TRG. The Remington slam fired for 10-12 racks, then started working correctly; the Sako had light strikes for 2 trigger pulls then worked fine.
All the rifles were reset up and 4 ounces of water were poured from the top onto the action and then the rifles were shaken and placed upright.
They will be checked in 1 hour.
Cont…
The rifles:
1). Tikka T3 in KRG Bravo chassis
2). Sauer 100 factory
3). Howa 1500 Alpine factory
4). Remington M7 with TT trigger and Bansner stock
5). Winchester Pre 64 M70 factory
6). Tikka T3 factory
7). Sako TRG 42 factory
This will be done in multiple steps, worst case working back back to easy to see any differences that show themselves. Every rifle is started in exactly the same condition- empty chamber, closed bolt, safety on, magazine loaded and/or inserted.
1: Total Failure
8oz of water poured directly into action, trigger, and magazine; then rifle is dropped in snow, covered for 10 min. After ten minutes
, rifles were pulled out of snow and set standing upright for ten minutes. Temperature was -11°F.
The first portion is designed for none of them to work- it is a total failure event.
Unsurprisingly none of them worked.
1). T3/Bravo safety moved, was bolt would not move rearward past halfway back. Trigger frozen completely. Magazine could be removed after breaking ice.
2). Sauer 100 had a completely frozen trigger and safety did not unlock tigger or bolt. Magazine could be removed after breaking ice.
3). Howa everything locked up- safety, bolt, trigger. Floor plate was opened after breaking ice and prying.
4). M7 TT was able to scrape ice off and work bolt. Magazine did not feed. After breaking and scraping ice, and bashing release latch, got floor plate open and dumped rounds after breaking ice. Hammered bolt open and dropped one round into chamber. It fired. After that it continued to slam fire- rifle fired with no activation of trigger when was bolt closed. Could not do anything to fix.
5). Win M70 Pre 64- Safety worked, trigger moved, bolt handle rotated but bolt would not move rearward at all. Was able to scrape and hammer open the floor plate.
6). T3 factory- safety was locked on safe. Bolt would not move. Trigger was locked. Magazine could be removed after breaking ice.
7). Sako TRG42- everything locked up as safety could not be moved. Magazine could be removed after scraping ice.
Following this, all rifles were placed inside the cab of the truck and driven back for approximately 12 min before being brought inside a 65° building to thaw and being checked every 5 minutes with a primed case.
Rifles will be listed in order that they returned to fully functioning.
1). T3 factory worked correctly in all aspects with a sticky bolt as soon as pulled from the truck. 30 min total.
2). Winchester Pre 64 started cycling first, trigger still didn’t work until 1 hour and 5 minutes.
3). Sako TRG42, once safety could be moved, rifle worked fully. 1 hour 5 minutes.
4). Tikka T3/Bravo. 1 hour 5 minutes.
5). Sauer 100, once trigger and safety started working, rifle functioned correctly. 1 hour 25 minutes.
6). Howa 1500, once safety could be moved, rifle worked correctly. 1 hour 30 minutes.
7). Remington M7 with Trigger Tech trigger. Rifle fired in sub 5 minutes, trigger slam fired until 1 hour 53 minutes.
None of the rifles worked correctly out of the snow. The only one that fired was the Remington and it remained unsafe for nearly two hours. The first rifle to work correctly was the factory Tikka T3.
As no rifle was expected to work from this trial, nothing is surprising. The main takeaways are how fast the factory T3 came back, how long the Remington remained unsafe, and how long it took the Howa and Sauer’s safeties to work.
Next will be 4 ounces of water and no snow….
Con’t….
So a slight change due to some snow fall. Rifles were taken from the 60°F building to outside and placed in a table letting the snow fall for 4 hours.
All rifles worked fine except the Remington and Sako TRG. The Remington slam fired for 10-12 racks, then started working correctly; the Sako had light strikes for 2 trigger pulls then worked fine.
All the rifles were reset up and 4 ounces of water were poured from the top onto the action and then the rifles were shaken and placed upright.
They will be checked in 1 hour.
Cont…
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