Ice/snow comparison between rifles

[Formidilosus]

Well shit! I can’t drop my tikka because of my vortex and can’t drop my defiance anti because of the dang bix n andy trigger.

So much for that nightforce scope I put on it! I might need another LHT!

Haha. The Bix n Andy is actually one of the better triggers. At least they feel good.

I know you know this, but I’m not trying to say “you can’t hunt with an R700”. I’m just saying and trying to show that there are differences. The R700 would never be made or accepted today as a brand new rifle.

 

[RussDXT]

Going completely budget here, what do you think about the CVA Scout?

I have one in a 300 BLK and from what I see it seems pretty simple and I would hope it would do well in bad conditions but perhaps the hammer would freeze.

 

[Formidilosus]

Going completely budget here, what do you think about the CVA Scout?

I have one in a 300 BLK and from what I see it seems pretty simple and I would hope it would do well in bad conditions but perhaps the hammer would freeze.

Couldn’t say.

 

[rabbithuntr]

I had a Remington style 2 stage trigger cost me a decent buck last fall. I pulled the trigger and nothing happened the a second later it went off. I had left my gun in the truck overnight so it was acclimated too. It was 10-15 degrees.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Southern Lights]

If you buy a rifle made in a Scandinavian country it will work in cold weather. Tikka/Sako are tough to beat not only for reliability but accuracy in the cold. Tikkas are very affordable, very accurate, and very tough. I love my Blaser, but if I really wanted a tough knock around rifle that would always work, the Tikka would be on that list.

 

[Southern Lights]

Interesting. I’d be curious if an AI would do the same. I’d imagine likely even with the bolt design.

I have owned/shot Sako TRG and AI in all sorts of weather. The AI is reliable, but I did have it really go down hard in fine dust. I can't fault the rifle too much there, but they re not infallible. I rate the trigger as probably more reliable on the AI than the TRG to general dust/debris though. But both rifles were extremely reliable at all times otherwise. I just think they are too heavy for most people to want to carry all day. If you want a TRG-Lite then I think you should look at the Sako/Tikka offerings. They share many features of the milspec TRG bolt design and even trigger groups has some parts that looks like they are borrowed/re-used from the design.

 

[Southern Lights]

Found an older article reference I remembered. This Swedish firm tested several common rifles for precision in extreme hot and extreme cold. Also tested for extraction and corrosion resistance. Finally did blocked barrel test.

Här exploderar älgstudsaren under testet - Testfakta

Fastnar kulan i loppet vill du inte stå med det här vapnet i handen. Två av älgstudsarna klarade inte sprängtestet, när Testfakta lät Försvarets Materielverk prova åtta jaktvapen. I testet som helhet blev det billigaste geväret bäst.

www.testfakta.se

PDF chart of results (in Swedish so will need to translate):

https://www.testfakta.se/sites/default/files/_BINARY_11457.pdf

Howa 1500 actually did best which isn't terribly surprising as they are made in Japan of excellent steel and precision for such a low price.

Blaser 93 (article was from 2007 before R8 was introduced) was second place overall.

Sako/Tikka/Mannlicher scored highest in cold weather precision but this was not function testing. Just seemed to test accuracy. Again Sako/Tikka are made by people that live and hunt in extreme cold so this is not surprising.

Best corrosion resistance was the Blaser. Blaser uses a very hard nitride coating on their barrels and other components are well treated/stainless. My Blaser barrel can show some light rust spots if left wet, but mostly it never shows any kind of corrosion. From the translation:
"To find out how well the weapons resist rust, they had to stand for two hours in salt fog and then for 15 hours in a 40 degree warm room with 95 percent humidity, which corresponds to approximately 14 days in an environment close to the sea without weapon maintenance. The least rusted test's most expensive weapon, the Blaser R93. Most rusted Anotonio Zoli Luxury."

Barrel block test the R700 and Browning both blew up and failed the test. Other rifles passed without exploding and risking injury to the shooter.

 

[ElPollo]

Found an older article reference I remembered. This Swedish firm tested several common rifles for precision in extreme hot and extreme cold. Also tested for extraction and corrosion resistance. Finally did blocked barrel test.

Här exploderar älgstudsaren under testet - Testfakta

Fastnar kulan i loppet vill du inte stå med det här vapnet i handen. Två av älgstudsarna klarade inte sprängtestet, när Testfakta lät Försvarets Materielverk prova åtta jaktvapen. I testet som helhet blev det billigaste geväret bäst.

www.testfakta.se

PDF chart of results (in Swedish so will need to translate):

https://www.testfakta.se/sites/default/files/_BINARY_11457.pdf

Howa 1500 actually did best which isn't terribly surprising as they are made in Japan of excellent steel and precision for such a low price.

Blaser 93 (article was from 2007 before R8 was introduced) was second place overall.

Sako/Tikka/Mannlicher scored highest in cold weather precision but this was not function testing. Just seemed to test accuracy. Again Sako/Tikka are made by people that live and hunt in extreme cold so this is not surprising.

Best corrosion resistance was the Blaser. Blaser uses a very hard nitride coating on their barrels and other components are well treated/stainless. My Blaser barrel can show some light rust spots if left wet, but mostly it never shows any kind of corrosion. From the translation:
"To find out how well the weapons resist rust, they had to stand for two hours in salt fog and then for 15 hours in a 40 degree warm room with 95 percent humidity, which corresponds to approximately 14 days in an environment close to the sea without weapon maintenance. The least rusted test's most expensive weapon, the Blaser R93. Most rusted Anotonio Zoli Luxury."

Barrel block test the R700 and Browning both blew up and failed the test. Other rifles passed without exploding and risking injury to the shooter.

I love the fact that the Google translate version of this refers to the rifles as “moose bouncers”.

 

[HighUintas]

Tanks for the links @Southern Lights

 

[ehayes]

Would it be accurate to conclude that any tikka bottom metal swapped out with an aftermarket aluminum bottom metal, especially one with AICS mags, would perform similar to the KRG?
What steps, if any, could one take to weather proof these aftermarket Tikka bottom metals?

 

[manitou1]

Lesson learned from this article:
NEVER, EVER lend Formidilosis one of your guns... ever!

 

[Formidilosus]

Lesson learned from this article:
NEVER, EVER lend Formidilosis one of your guns... ever!

At least when you get it back you’ll know if it works or not.

 

[kad11]

If you buy a rifle made in a Scandinavian country it will work in cold weather. Tikka/Sako are tough to beat not only for reliability but accuracy in the cold. Tikkas are very affordable, very accurate, and very tough. I love my Blaser, but if I really wanted a tough knock around rifle that would always work, the Tikka would be on that list.

Unfortunately, I don't think the same can be said for all Scandinavian stock manufacturers. Here's a GRS Fenris on a T3x - this wouldn't cause any issues, right?

I'm probably going to fill that gap because I like the stock otherwise, but was surprised to hear from GRS that that gap is completely normal.

 

[Brandon.miller.4]

Unfortunately, I don't think the same can be said for all Scandinavian stock manufacturers. Here's a GRS Fenris on a T3x - this wouldn't cause any issues, right?

I'm probably going to fill that gap because I like the stock otherwise, but was surprised to hear from GRS that that gap is completely normal.

View attachment 564284

Thats just plain unacceptable

 

[wyobigbuckhunter]

This was very well done! Thanks for the info

 

[TriIceS]

I remember that tikka has a Canadian scouting rifle for around 2k. I wonder how that rifle work in such a condition.

 

[Formidilosus]

I remember that tikka has a Canadian scouting rifle for around 2k. I wonder how that rifle work in such a condition.

As well as any factory Tikka- very well. The T3x Arctic also has some other good features for an all weather rifle- very well done iron sights and solid detachable mags.

 

[kad11]

Thats just plain unacceptable

I thought the same. Seems like the original mold wasn't quite right and they just didn't bother to fix it. The GRS rep mentioned it was like that on their previous model, the berserk, too.

 

[PBBananaHammock]

As well as any factory Tikka- very well. The T3x Arctic also has some other good features for an all weather rifle- very well done iron sights and solid detachable mags.

I listened to an interview with some participants of an Arctic warfare training course with Swedish/Norwegian special operative units and the amount of random crap that comes with sub 0 temperatures is fascinating. Problems you would never consider without experiencing them.

Have you ever seen or experienced any cracking or degradation in plastic/polymer stocks in freezing conditions? Stock Tikka furniture, KRG, magpul, anything that utilizes a polymer skin or body.

Many types of polymers, especially if aged, have a tendency to become brittle and crack when subject to stressors (like recoil) when in particularly cold conditions.

I had wondered if that might not have been a consideration with the decision for the laminate stock on the t3x Arctic.

 

[Formidilosus]

I listened to an interview with some participants of an Arctic warfare training course with Swedish/Norwegian special operative units and the amount of random crap that comes with sub 0 temperatures is fascinating. Problems you would never consider without experiencing them.

Have you ever seen or experienced any cracking or degradation in plastic/polymer stocks in freezing conditions? Stock Tikka furniture, KRG, magpul, anything that utilizes a polymer skin or body.

Yes, however not in a Tikka, Sako, Blaser, KRG, or current Magpuls magazines or stocks/grips.

Many types of polymers, especially if aged, have a tendency to become brittle and crack when subject to stressors (like recoil) when in particularly cold conditions.

Real cold causes all sorts of issues that people who think 30° is cold have no concept of.

I had wondered if that might not have been a consideration with the decision for the laminate stock on the t3x Arctic.

I’m not sure on that. There was a fair bit of legacy thinking involved in some of those choices. Not necessarily bad, just maybe not for reasons some would think.