Ice/snow comparison between rifles

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus

First, thanks for doing this test and reporting results. Supremely helpful.

Second, any thoughts on how a properly built Mauser 98 may have performed in such a test? We always hear about how they were “designed for war time conditions” back in the day.

Ehh. Any of the really open designs suffer from ice and snow, especially exposed claw extractors.

 

[p3t3rsn]

Ehh. Any of the really open designs suffer from ice and snow, especially exposed claw extractors.

Thanks Form. Hadn’t of thought of it like that before, but makes logical sense.

Cheers.

 

[DJL2]

Found an older article reference I remembered. This Swedish firm tested several common rifles for precision in extreme hot and extreme cold. Also tested for extraction and corrosion resistance. Finally did blocked barrel test.

Howa 1500 actually did best which isn't terribly surprising as they are made in Japan of excellent steel and precision for such a low price.

Since I'm digging into a past post anyway... the Howa 1500 is an old Sako design at heart. It is a better rifle than many people give it credit for.

Is the Tikka action considered to be drop-safe? I typically hunt with one in the chamber.

I didn't see an answer to this specifically, other than people noting the Tikka safety blocks the striker (which is a good thing). My own unofficial test was to cock the rifle, take the safety off, and bang it on the ground butt first with feeling to see if I could get the striker to drop. My T3x had no issues passing that test and I had no concerns carrying it in the field with one in the pipe... though, as a matter of principle, if I were to use it as a hammer, I would unload it first. ;-)

 

[UpSideDown]

Since I'm digging into a past post anyway... the Howa 1500 is an old Sako design at heart. It is a better rifle than many people give it credit for.

I didn't see an answer to this specifically, other than people noting the Tikka safety blocks the striker (which is a good thing). My own unofficial test was to cock the rifle, take the safety off, and bang it on the ground butt first with feeling to see if I could get the striker to drop. My T3x had no issues passing that test and I had no concerns carrying it in the field with one in the pipe... though, as a matter of principle, if I were to use it as a hammer, I would unload it first. ;-)

Having now dropped my Tikka *hard* twice; one time being a complete lawn dart throw onto the barrel when I slipped on a wet log; I can say that when the safety is on these rifles are dang safe. With the safety off, I don’t know.

 

[Southern Lights]

I have never felt the need to swap trigger components on any Tikka or Sako I owned, or any other rifle.

Whenever I have felt the need to do this I stop and ask myself this simple question:

"Do I know more about firearm design than Sako/Tikka (insert your rifle maker here)?"

If the answer is no, then just leave the rifle alone.

I have seen many problems caused by after market mods on rifles. Mainly 700 series with triggers that work great in nice weather, but have problems the minute things go south of sunny and 70 degrees.

Guys I know that guide a lot have run into numerous problems with modified client gear. Usually it's replacement triggers or various upgrades trying to alter trigger pull/break.

If a factory trigger is not your thing, I'd just recommend getting another brand that suits you better vs. trying to alter the trigger. It's not worth ruining a hunt over!

 

[Southern Lights]

I figured this would be the appropriate place to post this, just curious as the what happened.

My hunting partner shot a mule deer yesterday. Brand new Tika Roughtech Ember 300wm. He set up on the buck and squeezed the trigger, the gun didn't go off. He ejected the round and put it in his pocket cycled the bolt and shot the buck. Next one went off.

Light primer strike. It was 12 degrees and snowing. The gun was not plugged up with snow. Less than 20 rounds on the gun, it was zeroed earlier in the week.

Any thoughts? Any action needed? He's going to go shoot more today to see what happens. Factory Hornady 200gr ELD X.

Sent from my SM-G990U2 using Tapatalk

I have had light strikes on my Sako TRG (similar action to Tikka) in snow/freezing. Usually ice around rear of bolt shroud impinging striking pin so it light strikes. First trigger pull breaks the ice, cycling bolt then frees it up for second shot to work.

I actually feel that keeping the TRG cocked allows the ice to form over the rear firing pin indicator to allow this to happen. My solution in bad weather is to simply not walk with the rifle cocked so any ice that forms on the rear is knocked off when the bolt is cycled to bring the rifle ready.

I'd also check to make sure the firing pin is free of all lube. Sako advises in their manuals to not lube the firing pin for cold weather conditions.

Finally as others posted, the bolt not being closed is the #1 reason my TRG will light strike. This also happened once when ice was under the bolt detent in the action and got packed in so it would not go into battery all the way.

 

[Wiscgunner]

Haven't read thru this whole thread... yet but I run Tubb T7T triggers as I was quite impressed with his testing videos. I have run my trigger in very dusty environments and sat them in freezing rain without a problem. Granted I did not try a formal test like Form has set up but I have utmost confidence in that trigger. At the time only the Tubb and the CG Extreme Mod22 were drop safe with the safety engaged as they both push up and block the firing pin when the safety is applied where other only block the trigger when the safety is engaged. Since then Geisselle came out with theirs but I have no experience with that trigger personally.

XTSP REM Style MOD 22 Target Trigger (with safety)

Overview The Model 22 trigger is the successor to the already popular and proven CG Jackson trigger, internally referred to as the Mod 21. The Mod 21 was designed to be universal and fit a variety of popular actions. However, in the Remington action, the Model 21 had clearance issues when...

triggersandscopes.com

David Tubb T7T two-stage trigger (fits remington 700 style actions) Right Hand Standard Weight

Tubb T7T two stage trigger (fits Remington 700 style actions; the smooth pull and crisp break make this one of the best triggers on the market;

www.davidtubb.com

 

[BLJ]

Custom 3-Position Gun & Rifle Safeties | Gentry Custom

Discover premium custom 3-position gun & rifle safeties at Gentry Custom. Expert gunsmithing and installation services for superior firearm performance and safety.

gentrycustom.com

I emailed Gentry to see if this safety blocks the firing pin. No response yet.

I did read on another forum that it did, just no confirmation from the company yet.

***ETA*** Got an email response saying that the safety does in fact block the firing pin and disengages at the sear.

 

[NSI]

The epidemic of non-drop-safe r700 triggers is such a big deal in light of the dominance of that pattern in customs, that I do think any r700 trigger purporting to be safe needs to be taken seriously and tested. Impact could be broad if found to be even Geissele-levels of safe if not Tikka-levels of reliable.

-J

 

[Shortschaf]

Is there a place I can find the results of the drop testing? If it's listed in the thread already, my bad I missed it

 

[kickemall]

Is there a place I can find the results of the drop testing? If it's listed in the thread already, my bad I missed it

Go to the long range hunting forum and at the bottom it says "sub-forums" click that and you'll see scope evals.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

I think he wanted rifle trigger drop test results

 

[Shortschaf]

I think he wanted rifle trigger drop test results

^this

 

[Formidilosus]

That time of year again.


Rifles were left outside in the truck at -6° F when I started.




Warmed the truck up for a couple of minutes and drove 10min to the shooting spot. Turned truck off and set rifles against the bumper while I set the target up. One a R700 based custom action with Bix & Andy trigger, and one a factory Tikka T3x. Both had started to sweat a bit from the warmer vehicle, and then that sweat froze once outside.


You can see the thin layer of front on this one-







The Tikka was shot for about 40 rounds with no issues, then the custom rifle was shot. First 2 round rounds were light strikes on the primer, and you could feel that the trigger was “sluggish” and the firing pin wasn’t “snapping” but felt sluggish as well. Round three and on felt normal and fired fine.

You can see the two light strike rounds at the bottom of the mat in this pic-



I marked them with a marker-



Once finished I loaded them in the Tikka and both fired without issue-





No water, interference, just from the truck to shooting. Both bolts, triggers, and actions are setup the same way- degreased, then a very light wipe down with lube on the outside of the bolt and lugs only. Of course nothing definitive can be stated by this, just interesting and follows the normal expectation.


Both were dropped in the snow and left overnight for tomorrow.

 

[PNWGATOR]

That time of year again.


Rifles were left outside in the truck at -6° F when I started.

View attachment 657510


Warmed the truck up for a couple of minutes and drove 10min to the shooting spot. Turned truck off and set rifles against the bumper while I set the target up. One a R700 based custom action with Bix & Andy trigger, and one a factory Tikka T3x. Both had started to sweat a bit from the warmer vehicle, and then that sweat froze once outside.


You can see the thin layer of front on this one-
View attachment 657511
View attachment 657512

View attachment 657513



The Tikka was shot for about 40 rounds with no issues, then the custom rifle was shot. First 2 round rounds were light strikes on the primer, and you could feel that the trigger was “sluggish” and the firing pin wasn’t “snapping” but felt sluggish as well. Round three and on felt normal and fired fine.

You can see the two light strike rounds at the bottom of the mat in this pic-
View attachment 657514


I marked them with a marker-
View attachment 657515


Once finished I loaded them in the Tikka and both fired without issue-

View attachment 657516



No water, interference, just from the truck to shooting. Both bolts, triggers, and actions are setup the same way- degreased, then a very light wipe down with lube on the outside of the bolt and lugs only. Of course nothing definitive can be stated by this, just interesting and follows the normal expectation.


Both were dropped in the snow and left overnight for tomorrow.

View attachment 657517

Look forward to tomorrow’s findings!!!!

RokStok cold soak report forthcoming. Love it!

 

[Choupique]

Since I had an incident a few years ago where I couldn't load my model 70 due to ice in the chamber, I always dry fire my rifle a few times in the morning if it's got any sign of frost on it. Don't know if it does anything but it makes me feel better.

 

[Marshfly]

Since I had an incident a few years ago where I couldn't load my model 70 due to ice in the chamber, I always dry fire my rifle a few times in the morning if it's got any sign of frost on it. Don't know if it does anything but it makes me feel better.

Based on what happened in the test above it absolutely does do something. "Round three and on felt normal and fired fine."

I bet those light strike rounds would have fired just fine in the R700 after the firing pin loosened up.

Owning both Tikkas and R700s that get hunting with a lot, I'll be doing the same with both moving forward in cold conditions.

 

[False_Cast]

Based on what happened in the test above it absolutely does do something. "Round three and on felt normal and fired fine."

I bet those light strike rounds would have fired just fine in the R700 after the firing pin loosened up.

Owning both Tikkas and R700s that get hunting with a lot, I'll be doing the same with both moving forward in cold conditions.

The heat from the fired rounds probably contributed to the results as well.

 

[Marshfly]

The heat from the fired rounds probably contributed to the results as well.

There were no fired rounds when the third attempt "felt normal and fired fine."

 

[False_Cast]

There were no fired rounds when the third attempt "felt normal and fired fine.

After rereading, you are correct.