I don't want Grizzlies spreading their range....There I said it

[mossyoak52]

Its not going to get far if you start throwing insults on post #3. Lets have an adult convo, we can do it.

I have plenty of experience with black bears...have been charged 2x and a couple other interesting interactions. I also backpacked into Yellowstone and hammock camped with an ex gf and were pushed out of camp by a grizzly at 2am.

Also- lets play your logic out. Don't want to go wander the African savanna by your self? Or swim in a river where Hippos kill a few people a year? Come on man - Don't be a puss, you don't have any interactions to really form an opinion so what are you whining about?

black bears and grizzlies are 2 totally different animals
not even a close comparison

 

[Wolf_trapper]

grizzlies in colorado are next eventually they will be reintroduced there

If people had real life experiences with the natural world it wouldn't happen. Ballot box biology will make it happen. Griz might make it down on their own but it won't be for a while. That would be more acceptable with me.

 

[mossyoak52]

Why do some deer fear humans and others eat out of your front yard. I think animals are smarter than you give them credit for. They notice when Bob gets blasted from down the street.

montana fwp has killed enough of them here to prove the theory of kill a few and they will learn o fear humans to prove that theory wrong unlike deer grizzlies don't hang out in large heards like deer
so its not like they will see their buddy bob get blasted

 

[mossyoak52]

If people had real life experiences with the natural world it wouldn't happen. Ballot box biology will make it happen. Griz might make it down on their own but it won't be for a while. That would be more acceptable with me.

their has been a few grizzly sightings in colorado but its being kept quiet by cpw
just like the wolf pack in colorado that just happened to magically appear just before the reintroduction was introduced they didn't just wander into colorado i think they had some help

 

[Bubblehide]

Statistics are reality...informed decisions are the best decisions. Also, everyone you know drives everyday, how often are they outdoors in grizzly habitat?

True, but in the math you use, it is not "informed decisions" it is disinformed decisions. You first need to know how to interpret statistics, clearly you do not.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Statistics are reality...informed decisions are the best decisions. Also, everyone you know drives everyday, how often are they outdoors in grizzly habitat?

Statistics are reality??????? What basement are you posting from?

 

[Billy Goat]

I understand your line of thinking, out of curiosity I searched for some data. I've always had an issue when stats are used against a population base that will never actually experience the risk. Not saying this is what you are doing just previous experience.

If we assume the target saturation of grizzlies in suitable habitat would be similar to Yellowstone, we can use some of Yellowstone's data to get a rough estimate of risk. The NPS lists this data on their site here: https://www.nps.gov/yell/learn/nature/injuries.htm

They say the risk of a grizzly bear attack for back country hikers in Yellowstone is 1:232,636 travel days. Doesn't sound too bad, however, we should probably increase this risk since hikers in Yellowstone are just hiking on trails. We are off trail, sneaking around, leaving piles of meat everywhere. I think that's work a double the risk. 1:116,318

Now, remember, this is PER DAY. So, lets assume you are an active outdoorsman and do 35 days a year in the backcountry, scouting, hunting, fishing etc. 1:3323 per year

But we don't hunt just one year, lets say we do 30 years over our life time. 1:110

So, at full grizzly saturation across your hunting area you are up to a 1:110 chance of experiencing a Grizzly attack during a 30 year hunting career.

Yes, but now you are skewing data to support your thoughts.


Them Yellowstone hikers are idiots that take pictures with bison, you really think they don't have 10 times the odds of being killed by a grizzly after they offer to share their honey and porridge?


I agree with the stats in regards to population, like with 100 deaths with a population of 340 million, that ain't exactly the chances. I stand a zero chance of winning the lottery, cause I don't play, so those odds don't matter.

Still a low risk, but it will increase with spread.

 

[QuackAttack]

It’s hard for the idealists to accept, but apex predators were eliminated for good reasons…like they ate your kids…killed your cattle…made it where you had to carry a rifle every time you went to the outhouse.


These were valid reasons and people think the new bears will be different from the old bears.., nope

 

[mossyoak52]

It’s hard for the idealists to accept, but apex predators were eliminated for good reasons…like they ate your kids…killed your cattle…made it where you had to carry a rifle every time you went to the outhouse.

man hasn't been eliminated and we are the ultimate apex predator
so that thinking is way off

 

[JjamesIII]

I was just watching a Meateater YouTube vid where Cal is helping with some Grizzlies in Idaho and while I have put a lot of time into conservation personally I just can't get behind the grizzly push. There is already a lot of risk in the back country as it is and I saw what that grizzly did to Leonardo DiCaprio. What bothers me the most is that it seems most maulings the person didn't even have a chance to react. The bear bursts out of a bush and boom. Additionally, having a hunting season open so they at least would have some reason to fear us would be a massive uphill battle.

So we are encouraging a creature that we don't stand a chance against, that's highly aggressive, and has learned to not fear us. If you haven't seen one up close go to a zoo that has one and you will realize how insignificant you are compared to a full grown grizzly. In 15 years, they will have expanded to a large chunk of the Rockies. Why should my wife and kids risk being burdened with my death for me to go hunting?

I agree 100%, but it’s not cool to say in the public domain these days. Like swimming with sharks, I like the comfort of being the only “apex predator” (hipster buzzword).

We’re supposed to be “tolerant” of bears because they share the landscape with us bro . I personally hate them, and unapologetically so. Out east you can recreate outside without the concern of attack. It’s a much more relaxing experience. Like walking at night in downtown New York City, a naïve person let’s his guard down. I’m much more relaxed in my small town walking around without as much of a concern for safety.

Why would I even want to share a landscape with an animal that wants to maul me for any unprovoked reason imaginable? Keeping a gun in arms reach at all times and being “bear aware” at every momen, It sucks. It’s not being a sissy, it’s having the common sense of self preservation, knowing that I am on the menu just like all the other prey animals that need to live on edge, or risk being eaten by being complacent.

More bears equate to more chances of an encounter that usually ends badly for the prey. Do the bear advocates like them because they looked cool on nat geo in the safety of our living room? Sure they are impressive, and command respect for their sheer power, but I’m totally fine with never seeing another one in the wild. I liked the days when they were in isolated pockets and still had a natural fear or desire to avoid humans. So I’m intolerant, I don’t care. Push them back to the confines of the Yellowstone ecosystem so more park hippies can take their roadside selfies with them and let me take care of the elk and deer populations, coyotes can handle the rest.

 

[QuackAttack]

man hasn't been eliminated and we are the ultimate apex predator
so that thinking is way off

You know what I mean…furry apex predators.

Kinda the same reason you don’t keep venomous snakes around your kids…

 

[Bubblehide]

...
These were valid reasons and people think the new bears will be different from the old bears.., nope

But, but, but they are cute furry and cuddly creatures.

On another note, they made a movie (one is currently playing in theaters near you) on the same lines as this, but they went back in time much further and utilized whole different species.

 

[mossyoak52]

It’s hard for the idealists to accept, but apex predators were eliminated for good reasons…

translation guys that can't hunt or ride around in the truck and shoot from the road because they are to lazy to actually get out of the vehicle and actually use effort to find game have to have something to blame it on so lets blame it on predators

 

[jimh406]

I'd trust the fish/wildlife/conservation to get the right number of Grizzlies in MT had they figured it out with wolves. But, they didn't. I expect there will be a push until they are almost impossible to control unless hunting is allowed for Grizzlies in the lower 48 soon. As is, the wolf regulations keep being relaxed to try to get wolves under control. As many as there are, some still want them to increase.

But, if you like Grizzly numbers to increase a lot, there are lots of places to move where their numbers are increasing. Maybe you should move to one of those places.

 

[mossyoak52]

You know what I mean…furry apex predators.

Kinda the same reason you don’t keep venomous snakes around your kids

really i have a friend that has several venomous snakes and has kids (he has an exotic snake license ) knowing what your doing and teaching kids not to go near or handle them is the key
same with bears

 

[JjamesIII]

Why do some deer fear humans and others eat out of your front yard. I think animals are smarter than you give them credit for. They notice when Bob gets blasted from down the street.

Of course they do. Gunshots are now a dinner bell for bears. I like the videos of a hunter having to abandon his kill when a bear “claims” it. That more positive reinforcement and conditioning for a bear. Gunshot, human scent, human presence =free dinner while the naked ape just watches like a little beta boy. Lol.

 

[mossyoak52]

I'd trust the fish/wildlife/conservation to get the right number of Grizzlies in MT had they figured it out with wolves. But, they didn't. I expect there will be a push until they are almost impossible to control unless hunting is allowed for Grizzlies in the lower 48 soon. As is, the wolf regulations keep being relaxed to try to get wolves under control. As many as there are, some still want them to increase.

But, if you like Grizzly numbers to increase a lot, there are lots of places to move where their numbers are increasing. Maybe you should move to one of those places.

wolves will end up up back on the endangered species list in montana wyoming and idaho because of the relaxed regulations before long.
trust me you will never see a grizzly season in the lower 48 in our life time if ever
i live in montana in an area that has high frizz population
in 38 yrs and many many encounters with them
I'm still alive and have all my limbs common sense and
a cool head during an encounter goes a long way in keeping you alive

 

[QuackAttack]

translation guys that can't hunt or ride around in the truck and shoot from the road because they are to lazy to actually get out of the vehicle and actually use effort to find game have to have something to blame it on so lets blame it on predators

Did you quote the wrong post?

Bears are the equivalent of a psychotic cannibal with a room temp IQ and perpetual appetite. It’s logical to want them gone or at least isolated to parks.

They literally view you as food.

 

[Billy Goat]

I'd trust the fish/wildlife/conservation to get the right number of Grizzlies in MT had they figured it out with wolves. But, they didn't. I expect there will be a push until they are almost impossible to control unless hunting is allowed for Grizzlies in the lower 48 soon. As is, the wolf regulations keep being relaxed to try to get wolves under control. As many as there are, some still want them to increase.

But, if you like Grizzly numbers to increase a lot, there are lots of places to move where their numbers are increasing. Maybe you should move to one of those places.

The bios knew the carrying capacity.

It's the court orders and injunctions that are the problem, much like ballot box biology.


I'm not against predators, but I'm definitely against not having predator management.

 

[cuerro viejo]

How do you feel about wolves?

They and Giz should be land locked into California