I don't want Grizzlies spreading their range....There I said it

[S.Clancy]

Nobody said the backcountry, or front country, was supposed to be safe. If you aren't ok with the risk, don't go. Pretty simple.

 

[Moserkr]

California only has one grizzly left - the one on it’s flag. Im all for reintroducing them here since its in their historic range. I bet people from Alaska are laughing at this post. If you are so afraid of dying at the hands of a griz and leaving your family without you, either quit hunting or buy life insurance. For the love of God do not be one of those gofundme (gofundmyfamily) dead people.

Im more afraid of 99% of people’s 16 year old daughters driving recklessly while snapping selfies for tiktok. Driving to go hunting is way more dangerous. False sense of security.

 

[mossyoak52]

I agree 100%, but it’s not cool to say in the public domain these days. Like swimming with sharks, I like the comfort of being the only “apex predator” (hipster buzzword).

We’re supposed to be “tolerant” of bears because they share the landscape with us bro . I personally hate them, and unapologetically so. Out east you can recreate outside without the concern of attack. It’s a much more relaxing experience. Like walking at night in downtown New York City, a naïve person let’s his guard down. I’m much more relaxed in my small town walking around without as much of a concern for safety.

Why would I even want to share a landscape with an animal that wants to maul me for any unprovoked reason imaginable? Keeping a gun in arms reach at all times and being “bear aware” at every momen, It sucks. It’s not being a sissy, it’s having the common sense of self preservation, knowing that I am on the menu just like all the other prey animals that need to live on edge, or risk being eaten by being complacent.

More bears equate to more chances of an encounter that usually ends badly for the prey. Do the bear advocates like them because they looked cool on nat geo in the safety of our living room? Sure they are impressive, and command respect for their sheer power, but I’m totally fine with never seeing another one in the wild. I liked the days when they were in isolated pockets and still had a natural fear or desire to avoid humans. So I’m intolerant, I don’t care. Push them back to the confines of the Yellowstone ecosystem so more park hippies can take their roadside selfies with them and let me take care of the elk and deer populations, coyotes can handle the rest.

my wife and i have recreated outside everyday in one of the heaviest grizzly infested areas of montane for 38 yrs and we have never been attacked
people i alaska live with brown bears(which are 5 times more temperamental and twice as big as any lower 48 grizzly() and interior grizzlies dailey they don't stay inside because they are afraid to get attacked they learn to adapt learn their habitat and what to do and not do when they encounter one
like anything else in nature they have their place
and they were here long before the first settlers ever stepped foot in montana
don't want to deal with grizzlies move to a state that doesn't have them
you have a greater chance of getting attacked by a shark then a grizzly

 

[justin davis]

I’d rather grizzlies come in than wolves in colorado personally. It would keep the hippies and Boulder people on their toes. Grizzly can be dangerous. But I bet you have a better chance of dying in a car accident on the way to your hunt than by a bear

 

[mossyoak52]

The bios knew the carrying capacity.

It's the court orders and injunctions that are the problem, much like ballot box biology.


I'm not against predators, but I'm definitely against not having predator management.

how much more predator management do you want ?

 

[Billy Goat]

how much more predator management do you want ?

As much as it takes around my livestock.


How much grizzly management do we currently have?

 

[Pikespeak]

True, but in the math you use, it is not "informed decisions" it is disinformed decisions. You first need to know how to interpret statistics, clearly you do not.

I replied to your other comment nicely and asked for the formula as I haven't used my stats class in 15 years. You know the calc is wrong but you obviously don't know the answer either but you sure are mouthy. Here I figured it out for the both of us.

1 - (1-p) ^ n

 

[mossyoak52]

well if you ever encounter a grizzly just run preferably down hill
everyone knows running down hill slows bears down

 

[Wolf_trapper]

wolves will end up up back on the endangered species list in montana wyoming and idaho because of the relaxed regulations before long.
trust me you will never see a grizzly season in the lower 48 in our life time if ever
i live in montana in an area that has high frizz population
in 38 yrs and many many encounters with them
I'm still alive and have all my limbs common sense and
a cool head during an encounter goes a long way in keeping you alive

You live in Bozeman don't you...

Pipe down

 

[Pikespeak]

Yes, but now you are skewing data to support your thoughts.


Them Yellowstone hikers are idiots that take pictures with bison, you really think they don't have 10 times the odds of being killed by a grizzly after they offer to share their honey and porridge?


I agree with the stats in regards to population, like with 100 deaths with a population of 340 million, that ain't exactly the chances. I stand a zero chance of winning the lottery, cause I don't play, so those odds don't matter.

Still a low risk, but it will increase with spread.

Lol true, that was an assumption because I didn't know how to quantify that one. Interesting thought.

 

[mossyoak52]

As much as it takes around my livestock.


How much grizzly management do we currently have?

its the risk you take for raising live stock in grizzly territory
you knew the bears were there when you made that choice
and montana fish and game manages problem bears quite well

 

[Pikespeak]

I feel like this is kinda like the world telling people in India to grow the Tiger population when one ate their Auntie last week and they are just big pussies if they are worried about it.

 

[Mojave]

I understand your line of thinking, out of curiosity I searched for some data. I've always had an issue when stats are used against a population base that will never actually experience the risk. Not saying this is what you are doing just previous experience.

If we assume the target saturation of grizzlies in suitable habitat would be similar to Yellowstone, we can use some of Yellowstone's data to get a rough estimate of risk. The NPS lists this data on their site here: https://www.nps.gov/yell/learn/nature/injuries.htm

They say the risk of a grizzly bear attack for back country hikers in Yellowstone is 1:232,636 travel days. Doesn't sound too bad, however, we should probably increase this risk since hikers in Yellowstone are just hiking on trails. We are off trail, sneaking around, leaving piles of meat everywhere. I think that's work a double the risk. 1:116,318

Now, remember, this is PER DAY. So, lets assume you are an active outdoorsman and do 35 days a year in the backcountry, scouting, hunting, fishing etc. 1:3323 per year

But we don't hunt just one year, lets say we do 30 years over our life time. 1:110

So, at full grizzly saturation across your hunting area you are up to a 1:110 chance of experiencing a Grizzly attack during a 30 year hunting career.

Nice math!

 

[mossyoak52]

You live in Bozeman don't you..

nope we live in ennis /big sky one of the most grizzly & wolf infested areas of the state we deal with both on a weekly basis

 

[Rich M]

I could care less if grizzlies were extinct for real. They add nothing but the fear of getting eaten to a handful of folks.

Some critters were killed off for a good reason. Then the modern day hippies want to bring em back. Bears and wolves. Special kind of mysticism mix.

 

[Mojave]

I am against the growth of all super predators. They will be a single point of contention fighting us for access, game quantity and create livestock issues.

They aren't going to ever let us hunt brown bears (grizzly bears are brown bears for those that didn't study biology) in the lower 48.

Outside of Wyoming, Montana and Idaho it will be rare for any growth in the control of wolves. The leftist governments will never allow it to happen in Colorado, New Mexico or Arizona. Maybe in Utah. The number of wolves in the Gila is growing and if they aren't in Arizona they will be soon.

Wolverines and Canadian lynx will never ever be hunted below the Canadian border again. Trapping has already been shut down in New Mexico and California. Other states will fold.

 

[mossyoak52]

I am against the growth of all super predators. They will be a single point of contention fighting us for access, game quantity and create livestock issues.

They aren't going to ever let us hunt brown bears (grizzly bears are brown bears for those that didn't study biology) in the lower 48.

so your against the growth of the human population ? you must be with your first statement we are the superior predator
and they are a sub species of brown bears
just like the timber wolves is a subspecies of candaian grey wolves
if you don't want competition then i suggest you stay out of the woods and give up hunting because anyone that hunts is competition / point of contention hunting for the same species in the same area
in the 38 yrs we have been hunting montana wyoming idaho the presence of grizzlies and wolves have never prevented us from filling our tags idaho & wyoming elk population has actually grown sense wolves were introduced

 

[Antares]

I was just watching a Meateater YouTube vid where Cal is helping with some Grizzlies in Idaho and while I have put a lot of time into conservation personally I just can't get behind the grizzly push. There is already a lot of risk in the back country as it is and I saw what that grizzly did to Leonardo DiCaprio. What bothers me the most is that it seems most maulings the person didn't even have a chance to react. The bear bursts out of a bush and boom. Additionally, having a hunting season open so they at least would have some reason to fear us would be a massive uphill battle.

So we are encouraging a creature that we don't stand a chance against, that's highly aggressive, and has learned to not fear us. If you haven't seen one up close go to a zoo that has one and you will realize how insignificant you are compared to a full grown grizzly. In 15 years, they will have expanded to a large chunk of the Rockies. Why should my wife and kids risk being burdened with my death for me to go hunting?

::shrugs in Alaskan::

 

[Blowdowner]

The pro-grizzly arguments here range from diversions to slight personal attacks. We’re all on the same team here so it’s important to argue in good faith.
The main problem is you guys are arguing as though Pike is saying we should go into existing grizzly areas and stack their bodies to the sky. You are self-servingly ignoring the fact that grizzly REINTRODUCTION involves a team of scientists, politicians and complete tools riding on the backs of these grizzlies straight into our hunting area where they don’t currently exist. They do this for popularity reasons and the populace is not hunters.
Since you pro-Grizzly guys are side tracking the main argument I’ll throw my own curveball out for you: If a state wants to introduce grizzlies should they have to buy new land to put them on? Because when I grew up here, started a life, voted for my representatives, paid my taxes, there were no grizzlies. That’s what I signed up for. You want grizzlies - how many acres are YOU giving to the state?
I don’t mean this to be confrontational because I think most of you pro-Grizzly guys are taking your approach because you’ve forged your hunting life in their presence and that’s just the way it is for you and you’re kind of proud of it. But I personally would like to push them back over the Canada border. Donating every inch of the meat and hides to worthy causes of course.

 

[Bighorner]

I'm sorry, but some of you guys need to join the Red Lodge senior citizens on some hikes. I think those ladies could teach you a thing or two about conquering your fear of bears.