I don't want Grizzlies spreading their range....There I said it

[Pikespeak]

I was just watching a Meateater YouTube vid where Cal is helping with some Grizzlies in Idaho and while I have put a lot of time into conservation personally I just can't get behind the grizzly push. There is already a lot of risk in the back country as it is and I saw what that grizzly did to Leonardo DiCaprio. What bothers me the most is that it seems most maulings the person didn't even have a chance to react. The bear bursts out of a bush and boom. Additionally, having a hunting season open so they at least would have some reason to fear us would be a massive uphill battle.

So we are encouraging a creature that we don't stand a chance against, that's highly aggressive, and has learned to not fear us. If you haven't seen one up close go to a zoo that has one and you will realize how insignificant you are compared to a full grown grizzly. In 15 years, they will have expanded to a large chunk of the Rockies. Why should my wife and kids risk being burdened with my death for me to go hunting?

 

[WeiserBucks]

How do you feel about wolves?

 

[slick]

It's not quite AloneMan status but curious to see how this plays out.

The backcountry is a really scary place, better stay home. Sounds like you have a plethora of interactions with bears to draw an opinion from

 

[Pikespeak]

How do you feel about wolves?

Honesty, I don't feel threatened by them. I believe wolf attacks are almost non existent. Even if they do happen sometimes I feel like they aren't near as like to catch me by surprise and Id have a decent chance putting my back against a tree (or climbing one) and slinging 10mm rounds at them.

Now, I know there are other arguments around impact to ungulates and ranching that I don't know enough to have formed an opinion.

 

[Pikespeak]

It's not quite AloneMan status but curious to see how this plays out.

The backcountry is a really scary place, better stay home. Sounds like you have a plethora of interactions with bears to draw an opinion from

Its not going to get far if you start throwing insults on post #3. Lets have an adult convo, we can do it.

I have plenty of experience with black bears...have been charged 2x and a couple other interesting interactions. I also backpacked into Yellowstone and hammock camped with an ex gf and were pushed out of camp by a grizzly at 2am.

Also- lets play your logic out. Don't want to go wander the African savanna by your self? Or swim in a river where Hippos kill a few people a year? Come on man - Don't be a puss, you don't have any interactions to really form an opinion so what are you whining about?

 

[Billy Goat]

I think your wife and kids are burdened by the risk of your death everytime you go hunting.


Don't know that grizzlies really increase it much.

Just to clarify, I think it's over 100 deaths annually from hunting accidents, I think grizzlies might get someone a year on average, now add in brown bears and it changes.

Still kinda small potatoes in ways to die everyday.

 

[Bighorner]

The woods are inherently dangerous. The wilderness even more so.

But I'll take bears over the daily traffic on I25.

 

[Pikespeak]

I think your wife and kids are burdened by the risk of your death everytime you go hunting.


Don't know that grizzlies really increase it much.

Just to clarify, I think it's over 100 deaths annually from hunting accidents, I think grizzlies might get someone a year on average, now add in brown bears and it changes.

Still kinda small potatoes in ways to die everyday.

I understand your line of thinking, out of curiosity I searched for some data. I've always had an issue when stats are used against a population base that will never actually experience the risk. Not saying this is what you are doing just previous experience.

If we assume the target saturation of grizzlies in suitable habitat would be similar to Yellowstone, we can use some of Yellowstone's data to get a rough estimate of risk. The NPS lists this data on their site here: https://www.nps.gov/yell/learn/nature/injuries.htm

They say the risk of a grizzly bear attack for back country hikers in Yellowstone is 1:232,636 travel days. Doesn't sound too bad, however, we should probably increase this risk since hikers in Yellowstone are just hiking on trails. We are off trail, sneaking around, leaving piles of meat everywhere. I think that's work a double the risk. 1:116,318

Now, remember, this is PER DAY. So, lets assume you are an active outdoorsman and do 35 days a year in the backcountry, scouting, hunting, fishing etc. 1:3323 per year

But we don't hunt just one year, lets say we do 30 years over our life time. 1:110

So, at full grizzly saturation across your hunting area you are up to a 1:110 chance of experiencing a Grizzly attack during a 30 year hunting career.

 

[Trr15]

DiCaprio was lucky to make it out alive. Just by the skin of his teeth. Did you see what happened to Goose in Topgun? I’m never flying a fighter jet again.

 

[WeiserBucks]

You're really trying to spotlight a miniscule part of the hazards we face. How many die in car wrecks every day?

 

[Pikespeak]

DiCaprio was lucky to make it out alive. Just by the skin of his teeth. Did you see what happened to Goose in Topgun? I’m never flying a fighter jet again.

Lol really man...that was obviously a joke I put in there.

 

[Bubblehide]

Now, remember, this is PER DAY. So, lets assume you are an active outdoorsman and do 35 days a year in the backcountry, scouting, hunting, fishing etc. 1:3323 per year

Statistics rarely works the way you work the numbers. The odds from one day to the next would not change since you cannot control the individuals out on the trails. As such, on day one, the odds would be 1:232,636 travel days, on day 10 the odds would be1:232,636 travel days, and on day 200,000 the odds would still be1:232,636 travel days.

 

[Pikespeak]

You're really trying to spotlight a miniscule part of the hazards we face. How many die in car wrecks every day?

Your lifetime chances are roughly 1:100 to die in a car wreck, just was looking that up...Thats lifetime, so on a yearly basis of activity you would roughly be 3.1x more likely to get attacked by a grizzly bear.

Also, just because we face current risks doesn't mean we have to add more. Why don't you put a meth lab in your basement, you already could die going to work today?

 

[Wolf_trapper]

I agree I live in a griz infested part of Mt and it's nice when you go to areas you know they aren't in every willow bottom. Historical reintroductions are unwise in most situations if you ask me. Griz get into co and every logging job will get put into court for habitat infringement BS.

 

[Pikespeak]

Statistics rarely works the way you work the numbers. The odds from one day to the next would not change since you cannot control the individuals out on the trails. As such, on day one, the odds would be 1:232,636 travel days, on day 10 the odds would be1:232,636 travel days, and on day 200,000 the odds would still be1:232,636 travel days.

True in the pure statistics definition from stats classes but its still used for a rough estimation. Unless there is another calculation that was used that I can't recall which is very possible. Please share if you have another way.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Quit looking up odds and get back to reality. I've known over a dozen people killed in car wrecks and I only know 1 person who has actually seen a grizz, much less been killed by one.

 

[mossyoak52]

I was just watching a Meateater YouTube vid where Cal is helping with some Grizzlies in Idaho and while I have put a lot of time into conservation personally I just can't get behind the grizzly push. There is already a lot of risk in the back country as it is and I saw what that grizzly did to Leonardo DiCaprio. What bothers me the most is that it seems most maulings the person didn't even have a chance to react. The bear bursts out of a bush and boom. Additionally, having a hunting season open so they at least would have some reason to fear us would be a massive uphill battle.

So we are encouraging a creature that we don't stand a chance against, that's highly aggressive, and has learned to not fear us. If you haven't seen one up close go to a zoo that has one and you will realize how insignificant you are compared to a full grown grizzly. In 15 years, they will have expanded to a large chunk of the Rockies. Why should my wife and kids risk being burdened with my death for me to go hunting?

how does a dead grizzly fear humans or teach other grizzlies to fear humans ?
i don't need to go to a zoo I've seen them many many many times in 38 yrs here in Montana wyoming and idaho you keep your distance they keep theirs most attacks happen when people interrupt them while feeding startle them or they have cubs other then that they try to avoid humans

 

[mossyoak52]

I agree I live in a griz infested part of Mt and it's nice when you go to areas you know they aren't in every willow bottom. Historical reintroductions are unwise in most situations if you ask me. Griz get into co and every logging job will get put into court for habitat infringement BS.

grizzlies in colorado are next eventually they will be reintroduced there

 

[Pikespeak]

Quit looking up odds and get back to reality. I've known over a dozen people killed in car wrecks and I only know 1 person who has actually seen a grizz, much less been killed by one.

Statistics are reality...informed decisions are the best decisions. Also, everyone you know drives everyday, how often are they outdoors in grizzly habitat?

 

[Pikespeak]

how does a dead grizzly fear humans or teach other grizzlies to fear humans ?
i don't need to go to a zoo I've seen them many many many times in 38 yrs here in Montana wyoming and idaho you keep your distance they keep theirs most attacks happen when people interrupt them while feeding startle them or they have cubs other then that they try to avoid humans

Why do some deer fear humans and others eat out of your front yard. I think animals are smarter than you give them credit for. They notice when Bob gets blasted from down the street.