Fleeing Californians and Property Values

[Elkdreamer]

@Elkdreamer is right. It is a quickly changing environment out there. Some states are worse than others, but with a new administration coming in on the federal level, I would be very much aware of their sweeping intentions. In Massachusetts the eviction moratorium was extended. It can be a killer for landlords. For some reason, the landlord does not get a moratorium on real estate taxes; go figure.

Know what you are getting into because things are changing. I have been in commercial real estate for over twenty years. This includes brokerage and property management. I am very nervous about government intervention. Residential landlords are an obvious target if you sit back and think about it for a moment. Research the Great Reset. Government housing is in our future if Biden/Harris have their way. And the most direct line is to tank the residential property owners.

The Government is trying to tank all independent people. Worker bees are all they want.

 

[sasquatch]

No one seems to be chalking this up, or at least attributing a large part of the blame, to simple population growth. More people, less space. That is where it all starts. Nearly everything else being talked about here is a spin-off of that.

More people require more jobs. The model had been for companies to setup shop in NY, Chicago, LA, San Francisco, Houston. Populations exploded in those cities. The cost of running a city grows. Politicians end up taxing individuals and companies to fund the extra services needed to handle all these people and of course, being corrupt, pad their pockets along the way. All driving up cost of living and doing business there. Sheer incompetence of politicians makes it worse. Real estate costs within reasonable commute times skyrockets pushing people further out from the city centers driving up costs further and further out. More and more land is developed to accommodate all these people. As those major city populations grow, smaller satellite cities become bigger cities. Companies start looking for more affordable places to setup. NY and LA being the prime examples of cities that have hit their tipping point, now even rich companies can no longer afford to base corporate headquarters there. Attracting talent is increasingly difficult due to horrible commute times and unaffordable real estate forcing potential employees to look at having roommates and/or live in match box size apartments. With no prospect of ever owning their own home. Homelessness, crime, flourish. Quality of life has reached lows people are not willing to accept. Major companies look to other cities. Mayors of these attractive cites bend over backwards to bring these companies to their towns (remember, corrupt and padding their pockets?). Tax breaks, etc. Atlanta went through this decades ago. Now it is Austin, Nashville, and seemingly every city in Texas. It’s a lot of cities talked about in this thread. This trend has been taking place over the last 30-40 years. But we are seeing a major change even within that trend where companies, e.g. financial services, that never considered being based anywhere but a NY or lesser extent Chicago now realize, with the advances in technology (seamlessly working remotely, high quality video conferencing at you finger tips, cloud services, software as a service, phones and tablets capable of being computer workstations) they can move to Austin or Nashville. They can still attract talent and still do business at a greatly reduced cost. And they are doing it in mass. All of it is driven by population growth and aided by advances in technology.

People have always retired to smaller, more affordable places. That is nothing new. People with the cash have always bought up land in those places. There are just way more of those people now and the go to places in the past are full and not the affordable place anymore. New places are being sought out. None of this happens without population growth. There is a finite amount of space within our boarders and we are busting at the seams.

This!!! And it’s political suicide to even try to discuss it. How dare you say there may be too many humans. The most destructive and needy species to ever exist.

We love to talk about managing everything except ourselves.


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[sasquatch]

It’s harsh but what happens in nature when a species gets overpopulated? Disease usually takes care of it........I think that’s where we are.


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It tries to. But our weak emotions of the 21st century have us do everything humanly possible to stop it, even if the cure is worse than the disease.

We just can’t handle hard truths anymore


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[Marble]

For those opposed to the peeps in CA moving your way, is it because of housing costs? Or politics? Or both?

It seems there is a pretty clear correlation with CA residents moving into areas and jacking house prices up. So that seems good for those who own already, bad for those who don't.

Has there been a difference in politics also? I'm not trying to push someone's button or argue. I'm really curious.

The people that I know from CA who move to ID, MT, WY, NV, TN, UT, are all ultra conservative. But the area i live in has never voted democratic in its history. Just curious.

Is CO going more and more liberal a result of people from CA?



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[CorbLand]

For me the California stuff is political. Your more than welcome to move here but leave your bullshit at the state line. It’s not only those that come from California. California is just an easy target.

We get a lot of people that move here in N. Utah to work at the university. Then they try and take our nice little town and turn it into where they came from. There was a lady pissed that the town wouldn’t allow for some naked marathon and that everyone here was allowed to own a gun.

They love the low crime rate and low tax rates then move here and try and change it to the place they just left because of high crime and high taxes.


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[Mt Al]

Has there been a difference in politics also? I'm not trying to push someone's button or argue. I'm really curious.

The people that I know from CA who move to ID, MT, WY, NV, TN, UT, are all ultra conservative. But the area i live in has never voted democratic in its history. Just curious.


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Montana had a red wave, nay, tsunami this year. The D running for senate out raised the R almost 2 to 1 and got trounced. Of course the polls had it a dead heat, wasn't even close to a dead heat. The same story across all the Fed and State seats this year in MT.

That to say: you may be right that those leaving CA for MT are conservative. The elitist bubbles of Bozeman and Missoula attract liberal people from everywhere, but overall the state voted highly conservative. All "our" predictions of CA/WA/OR liberals coming in, voting their policies in place and stealing our cheerios, requiring our kids to be sexually fluid, banning freedom of thought and locking up our guns didn't come true. What also didn't come true is the state even leaning slightly more liberal - was the opposite. My personal opinion on what happened was people voted against socialism/elitism vs. voting for the Rs.

My 2 cents on that issue.

 

[Rob5589]

For those opposed to the peeps in CA moving your way, is it because of housing costs? Or politics? Or both?

It seems there is a pretty clear correlation with CA residents moving into areas and jacking house prices up. So that seems good for those who own already, bad for those who don't.

Has there been a difference in politics also? I'm not trying to push someone's button or argue. I'm really curious.

The people that I know from CA who move to ID, MT, WY, NV, TN, UT, are all ultra conservative. But the area I live in has never voted democratic in its history. Just curious.

Is CO going more and more liberal a result of people from CA?



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Politics, taxes, housing prices, fuel prices, rampant unchecked immigration, you name it. I hope to leave some day, the thought of retiring here and being taxed out the wazoo is disheartening. I honestly wrote it off because the wife never showed any interest. But after all this year has thrown at everyone especially here, now even she is open to it.

 

[Marble]

Montana had a red wave, nay, tsunami this year. The D running for senate out raised the R almost 2 to 1 and got trounced. Of course the polls had it a dead heat, wasn't even close to a dead heat. The same story across all the Fed and State seats this year in MT.

That to say: you may be right that those leaving CA for MT are conservative. The elitist bubbles of Bozeman and Missoula attract liberal people from everywhere, but overall the state voted highly conservative. All "our" predictions of CA/WA/OR liberals coming in, voting their policies in place and stealing our cheerios, requiring our kids to be sexually fluid, banning freedom of thought and locking up our guns didn't come true. What also didn't come true is the state even leaning slightly more liberal - was the opposite. My personal opinion on what happened was people voted against socialism/elitism vs. voting for the Rs.

My 2 cents on that issue.

I dont want it to seem I think the people who are leaving CA are all conservatives. My exposure is to people like me, very conservative, that leave.

It's unfortunate, we'll it sucks, that the places I have thought about going have the potential to be turned into CA.

I se first hand how laws change here. They pass laws that shouldn't ever be passed, and don't pass the laws that should.

I have a job, four kids and a mom and dad that are keeping me here. As soon as circumstances change, we'll be leaving.

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[TheGDog]

I really wish they'd stay and fix their own problems instead of infect the states they move to.

That won't happen... because in order for these politicos out here to get in the door... they know they gotta do the Dem playbook of handing out free isht to the broke-n-po in exchange for votes... and also promising free isht and healthcare and education and and and and and for illegals... because ya got tons of Fams here which are 1st gen or 2nd gen with Familia down South or fam across the Pacific if ya feel me there.

We've tried... 3 times now to oust this A**HOLE!!! And even though you end up seeing LONG LINES at the locations where they had setup for people to sign the petitions for recalling Newsom... mysteriously when they all reach the Secretary of States office... oh gee... look at that.. gosh or golly... gee guys, you were soo close! He's their made guy. He's got family ties to Brown, Pelosi, Getty and a couple other mega rich ones.

And last night a thought occurred to me again re: why I believe it's likely Biden is a mde guy and a lot of shenanigans are in play. Think about it... Obama does this thing called the ACA right? Really... you're gonna FORCE everyone to get insurance? Hrmm... I wonder which industry may have been in cahoots on that one?

Hrmm.. and then.. the oopsie they didn't expect happens and Trump gets in. Thankfully he starts attacking the ACA.

Now... I'm imagining that this is likely having a negative effect on their revenue stream... so what do they do? Well... all these delusional people and the broke-n-po folks who got all those free Obama phones... (I didn't even know that was a thing until I noticed these certain Homeless-in-Auto folks that plagued are very nice neighborhood park for 12 years straight!).. I figure they're thinking Hrmm... well they'd all associated him with Obama and just end up seeing him as Obama 2.0.. and to sweeten the deal in that regard, in terms of perceiving him in that same manner they exploited to get Obama in there... they grab heels up Harris (ya know, who ironically talked major isht about Joe) to be their de facto presidente that they will just be waiting for the right time to announce that Joe has a health issue and will bow-down... and then they'll be all Yay! Look as us! We got the first "Black" woman into that office! We're amazing (BARF!) And it doesn't hurt that if she wasn't just such a two-faced beyotch, she's actually kinda hot... ish. The way I figure it. They'll probably leave Joe in there maybe a little longer than the first 100 days... maybe even a year. At least until they can lie their a**es off and claim *THEY* single-handedly put an end to CoVID (which you KNOW damn well they will try to market it that way at least). Or maybe when it's lowering... but not all the way out... they'll claim he got it and then claim his health is whack and usher her in there.

And somehow or another... there's some kind of clandestine thing going on in the background in terms of these aholes attacking 2nd amendment rights. I mean come the bleep on... the Remington thing? Seriously? You're gonna allow a suit to be brought against a company for how users decided to use their products in an illegal fashion? Seriously? Might as well just sh*t all over the entirety of capitalism then. Because without those kind of protections I can totally see a litigator using the Remington case as a precedent and expand this same tactic into other fields of business *they* don't agree with. Just need to figure out who is the major player pulling the strings on this one though.

 

[def90]

For those opposed to the peeps in CA moving your way, is it because of housing costs? Or politics? Or both?

Is CO going more and more liberal a result of people from CA?



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Yes it is.. Colorado is a little different than Mt and Id though. All of the big tech firms from the west coast have all set up major offices in the Boulder and Denver area because housing and the cost of living is cheaper here than San Jose and the bay area. Google employees can actually buy a house here where they probably couldn’t in California. Boulders’ median home price has gone from roughly $300k in 2000 when I moved here to $1.1m this past year with the largest jump occuring right about when Google opened their first office here. These people are not conservatives escaping California, they are the worst of California. Colorado used to be very Libertarian in feel, even in Boulder. Now the state is solid blue and I don’t see it changing ever back, hell the wolf reintroduction initiative just got passed and it was passed primarily by voters in Boulder and Denver, the rest of the state no longer has a population base large enough to override the whims of these two cities.

Have to add that Boulder recently passed an assault weapons ban. This ban was presented by a city council member who had just moved to Boulder within the previous two years as well as was pushed by Shannon Watts of Moms Demand Action who also recently moved to Boulder. These people will move in to a new place and get themselves in to political positions that will change how your city operates quicker than anyone realizes. If you live in an area with a large influx of people from out of state be sure to get active in local politics if you want your city to stay the same as it was/is.

 

[brettdunn7]

Interesting in fact as property values seem to be holding or rising all over the Midwest, Rocky Mountain front and south. I had my property on the market, Missouri Breaks in Montana, for some time. Had some tire kickers and one couple, not sure of sexual preference, interested. Too far out for some as this is in the Musselshell Valley with a 1000’ of River frontage. Took property off the market and will mow the entire 20 acres in the late spring, early summer. This will allow grasses and under growth to grow for the deer, elk, pheasants and more. Then, perhaps then, will consider putting back on the market. Who knows? Some hunter may want a remote retreat?

How much?


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[brettdunn7]

For me the California stuff is political. Your more than welcome to move here but leave your bullshit at the state line. It’s not only those that come from California. California is just an easy target.

We get a lot of people that move here in N. Utah to work at the university. Then they try and take our nice little town and turn it into where they came from. There was a lady pissed that the town wouldn’t allow for some naked marathon and that everyone here was allowed to own a gun.

They love the low crime rate and low tax rates then move here and try and change it to the place they just left because of high crime and high taxes.


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Yep I’m just glad Utah don’t put up with that crap... for the time being at least.


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[MTGunner]

Had it on the market for a good price, but plan to mow the entire property in late spring early summer. Planning to sell as owner, no real estate pinhead to mess things up once again. Not in a hurry at this point. If it sells, good’nuff! If not, good ‘nuff!
One very sage old hunter, my grandfather, told me once that there was no new property being made. Particularly remote hunting property.
As far as CA people moving into MT. Montana is a red state. Yes, there are blue cities that the liberals reside but of little consequence given the 2020 elections. Montanans have spoken. Montana is a red state. MTG

 

[Marble]

Yes it is.. Colorado is a little different than Mt and Id though. All of the big tech firms from the west coast have all set up major offices in the Boulder and Denver area because housing and the cost of living is cheaper here than San Jose and the bay area. Google employees can actually buy a house here where they probably couldn’t in California. Boulders’ median home price has gone from roughly $300k in 2000 when I moved here to $1.1m this past year with the largest jump occuring right about when Google opened their first office here. These people are not conservatives escaping California, they are the worst of California. Colorado used to be very Libertarian in feel, even in Boulder. Now the state is solid blue and I don’t see it changing ever back, hell the wolf reintroduction initiative just got passed and it was passed primarily by voters in Boulder and Denver, the rest of the state no longer has a population base large enough to override the whims of these two cities.

Have to add that Boulder recently passed an assault weapons ban. This ban was presented by a city council member who had just moved to Boulder within the previous two years as well as was pushed by Shannon Watts of Moms Demand Action who also recently moved to Boulder. These people will move in to a new place and get themselves in to political positions that will change how your city operates quicker than anyone realizes. If you live in an area with a large influx of people from out of state be sure to get active in local politics if you want your city to stay the same as it was/is.

Thanks for the input.

My wife and I had planned to move to CO but we have watched it move in lock step with CA. Which is unfortunate. CA politicians pass a lot of bills that really impact quality of life for the majority of people.

Not sure where or what we'll do. Still got time to figure that out.

Where I live the bay area, some coast areas and the LA basin rules the states. They hold the market population and make the rules for everyone else. Two totally different ways of life between living in the big city and the rural areas funded by timber, agriculture and trades.

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[LookinforDirt]

That won't happen... because in order for these politicos out here to get in the door... they know they gotta do the Dem playbook of handing out free isht to the broke-n-po in exchange for votes... and also promising free isht and healthcare and education and and and and and for illegals... because ya got tons of Fams here which are 1st gen or 2nd gen with Familia down South or fam across the Pacific if ya feel me there.

We've tried... 3 times now to oust this A**HOLE!!! And even though you end up seeing LONG LINES at the locations where they had setup for people to sign the petitions for recalling Newsom... mysteriously when they all reach the Secretary of States office... oh gee... look at that.. gosh or golly... gee guys, you were soo close! He's their made guy. He's got family ties to Brown, Pelosi, Getty and a couple other mega rich ones.

And last night a thought occurred to me again re: why I believe it's likely Biden is a mde guy and a lot of shenanigans are in play. Think about it... Obama does this thing called the ACA right? Really... you're gonna FORCE everyone to get insurance? Hrmm... I wonder which industry may have been in cahoots on that one?

Hrmm.. and then.. the oopsie they didn't expect happens and Trump gets in. Thankfully he starts attacking the ACA.

Now... I'm imagining that this is likely having a negative effect on their revenue stream... so what do they do? Well... all these delusional people and the broke-n-po folks who got all those free Obama phones... (I didn't even know that was a thing until I noticed these certain Homeless-in-Auto folks that plagued are very nice neighborhood park for 12 years straight!).. I figure they're thinking Hrmm... well they'd all associated him with Obama and just end up seeing him as Obama 2.0.. and to sweeten the deal in that regard, in terms of perceiving him in that same manner they exploited to get Obama in there... they grab heels up Harris (ya know, who ironically talked major isht about Joe) to be their de facto presidente that they will just be waiting for the right time to announce that Joe has a health issue and will bow-down... and then they'll be all Yay! Look as us! We got the first "Black" woman into that office! We're amazing (BARF!) And it doesn't hurt that if she wasn't just such a two-faced beyotch, she's actually kinda hot... ish. The way I figure it. They'll probably leave Joe in there maybe a little longer than the first 100 days... maybe even a year. At least until they can lie their a**es off and claim *THEY* single-handedly put an end to CoVID (which you KNOW damn well they will try to market it that way at least). Or maybe when it's lowering... but not all the way out... they'll claim he got it and then claim his health is whack and usher her in there.

And somehow or another... there's some kind of clandestine thing going on in the background in terms of these aholes attacking 2nd amendment rights. I mean come the bleep on... the Remington thing? Seriously? You're gonna allow a suit to be brought against a company for how users decided to use their products in an illegal fashion? Seriously? Might as well just sh*t all over the entirety of capitalism then. Because without those kind of protections I can totally see a litigator using the Remington case as a precedent and expand this same tactic into other fields of business *they* don't agree with. Just need to figure out who is the major player pulling the strings on this one though.

States need a system that gives the counties outside the major cities more say on what happens in the state. Just like California, NY or Texas should not be dictating unchallenged what happens in smaller states, large cities like Denver and Boulder should not be able to so easily decide policy for the entire state.

 

[r2searle]

You make it sound like the asking price was set at market value of $250k, and for no reason whatsoever some CA buyer offered and paid $300k OVER asking price. Is that really what's happening?

I think what he’s saying is a home that would have listed at 250k only a year or two ago is now being listed at 500k and still selling. This has drastically driven the prices of all homes through the roof. It’s a natural cycle of supply and demand but I can attest it’s unfortunate especially for local first time home buyer’s.


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[Elkdreamer]

I think what he’s saying is a home that would have listed at 250k only a year or two ago is now being listed at 500k and still selling. This has drastically driven the prices of all homes through the roof. It’s a natural cycle of supply and demand but I can attest it’s unfortunate especially for local first time home buyer’s.


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This. My kids have no chance to buy a home. Even one I would not have purchased 30 yrs ago. Very sad for the small percentage of hard working youth.

 

[brsnow]

Many people aren’t leaving CA because they don’t like it, they are younger families that want to be able to buy a home. 500k in ID is much better than 1-3 mil in the Bay Area. They keep the same income and less cost of living. Here in CO we are still netting gains, but many are leaving as the costs go up for many, but still far less expensive for those arriving. Capitalism

 

[Sleghammer]

I personally haven't seen those that move in keep the same income. I work as an engineer in the private sector. I've had multiple candidates from CA want to be paid about the same as they have. The company I work for can't afford it because it would outprice our clients. We don't come to terms. No job for them. But they move anyways.

 

[HeavilyArmedHIppie]

“Sounds like some people need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and work harder to have a house” - some old man who bought his first house for less than 1 year’s blue collar salary