Corner Crossing (is any hunter against it?)

[Pro953]

What morality is involved? We're talking about stepping from public, to public without setting foot on private. Are you saying that you own the space from the ground to the edge of the atmosphere? Are we going to start fining airplanes that fly over private land?

I would do a bit of research. Private land ownership does include a certain amount of air space. That number varies by area but usually up to a couple hundred feet.

If the land owner build a 8’ wall corner to corner how would you get though it? I am not against corner crossing and would like some solution to make it legal and accepted but the idea that it is not a violation of property rights as they are currently written is interesting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Trial153]

Does that logic follow for other crimes as well? As long as the "victim" doesn't know it's not a crime?

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

We aren't talking about other "crimes". We are discussing public to public corner crossing. And it stands that there is no aggrieved party in the action. It take some special mental gynamstics to see this as crime, Unless of course your profiting from denying acess of the public to their lands.
If anything, the prevention and enforcement of it should the crime against the general public who damaged by the lack of acess for to their land.

 

[Kevin Dill]

I would do a bit of research. Private land ownership does include a certain amount of air space. That number varies by area but usually up to a couple hundred feet.

If the land owner build a 8’ wall corner to corner how would you get though it? I am not against corner crossing and would like some solution to make it legal and accepted but the idea that it is not a violation of property rights as they are currently written is interesting.

This perfectly illustrates why the 'step through' argument....while theoretically workable....is not a realistic approach toward solving the problem. A determined landowner will simply find a way to create a barrier preventing the 'step through'. Two sections of tall fence joining at the corner would do it. You need a legal easement to allow passage without obstruction.

 

[Rmauch20]

Legalize it and move on. there’s bigger fish to fry than worry about someone stepping over in to your airspace.

 

[NoWiser]

All of you people that support corner crossing seem to forget that in some cases in order to reach that corner you have to tresspass on somebody's private property. If you are traveling through public land in order to access a corner crossing then I have no problem with your actions, as long as you don't have to tresspass in order to get over any fences. The vast majority of land owners agree that it's wrong to interfere with access to public lands but the truth is that some people that think that they have a right to corner cross will tresspass in order to reach that corner. They aren't floating over the ground, they are driving, riding, or walking on private property at some point in order to get to the corner. It is absolutely impossible to walk on a real world land boundary that is drawn on a map without actually touching private property.

I own a small parcel of land next to Helena National Forest (where I have a permenant residence) and I've had several people over the years attempt to drive up my POSTED, PRIVATE driveway and along my property line, which requires that they drive off of my driveway and over a small pasture area in order to reach the property boundary that is adjacent to another private parcel in order to access public land that lies on my property's back edge - even though there are public Forest Service roads leading to the very same area no more than 3 miles away. This is the reality of what corner crossing is, it's tresspassing on private land.

Yes, allowing people to tresspass on my property will result in even more tresspassing. Under our corrupted legal system if I allow even one person to cross regularly then I've set a precedent of allowing public acces to my private property which could be contrued to mean that I gave up control of my private land to the public. I can easily be sued for trying stop people from tresspassing using any number of legal tactics. If a person feels that it's legal to cross my private property on one boundry then it's a sure thing that sombody will assume that they can cross at any other point along my property boundries and I wont be able to stop them since traditioinally I've allowed access through my private lands. In essence, I've given up my private property rights and made my land public land.

Do you even know what corner crossing is? The whole point is that it's not necessary to trespass if you cross at the corners. If someone trespasses to get to the corner, that's not a corner crossing issue, that's a trespassing issue.

 

[Dos Perros]

This perfectly illustrates why the 'step through' argument....while theoretically workable....is not a realistic approach toward solving the problem. A determined landowner will simply find a way to create a barrier preventing the 'step through'. Two sections of tall fence joining at the corner would do it. You need a legal easement to allow passage without obstruction.

If the two sections of fence intersect at the corner, then some of that corner post must be on public land and therefore trespassing itself. The only way to do what you're suggesting is two independent fences angling at 90 degrees whose corners are very close to each other but not touching.

 

[Kevin Dill]

If the two sections of fence intersect at the corner, then some of that corner post must be on public land and therefore trespassing itself. The only way to do what you're suggesting is two independent fences angling at 90 degrees whose corners are very close to each other but not touching.

The bigger picture is....as I said....a landowner who wants to prevent step-through corner crossings will find a way to accomplish it. I guarantee I could build a barrier which doesn't intrude on the public land, yet no hunter could step through it....go over it....or go around it without trespassing. That's the reason this issue needs a legal resolution and easement or right-of-way. Otherwise it's just a game of one-upmanship between hunters and landowners.

 

[Marble]

I've corner hopped so.many times in my 35 years of big game hunting...I didnt even know it was a thing. No one has ever cared and i really didn't think it was illegal.

Even if the private was and public was separated by a fence and I needed to cross, I would.

Keep in mind I care take a 3000 acre cattle ranch and constantly fix fences and chase trespassers off. I did not see corner crossing as anything related to trespassing. Still dont.

There could be a compelling reason for not allowing it. Just haven't seen it yet.

 

[bmf0713]

See! I did that without trespassing in the other 2 squares. I think we just need more accurate gps systems and property lines. Haha.

 

[Trial153]

See! I did that without trespassing in the other 2 squares. I think we just need more accurate gps systems and property lines. Haha.

Your pant leg infringed on the private squares rights. Off with your head.

 

[bmf0713]

Your pant leg infringed on the private squares rights. Off with your head.

How does that work though? They own the land not the air...just like floating down a stream right? They don’t own the water?....

 

[Pro953]

See! I did that without trespassing in the other 2 squares. I think we just need more accurate gps systems and property lines. Haha.

Actually no... if you took a downward facing camera view you would see, from a legal perspective that your body is crossing into the neighboring space. Your foot physically touching the square has nothing to do with it.

Is this all really dumb, yes. Would it be silly and petty for someone to be charged with trespassing for corner crossing, yes. It is however based on most interpretations of private property and property boundaries trespassing. As Kevin pointed out. It just needs to be legally clarified, what is and what is not possible. Certainly easement, land swap and access programs could be possible. It just takes a willing and funded party to put the effort into it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Pro953]

How does that work though? They own the land not the air...just like floating down a stream right? They don’t own the water?....

Incorrect. Private property usually extends a few hundred feet in the air.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BuzzH]

Incorrect. Private property usually extends a few hundred feet in the air.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Does it?

Try building your house right on your exact property line....county will be along shortly to have a chat.

 

[bmf0713]

Incorrect. Private property usually extends a few hundred feet in the air.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah. Makes sense. I guess if my neighbors tree branch is hanging over my property I can cut whatever is hanging over.

 

[Pro953]

Does it?

Try building your house right on your exact property line....county will be along shortly to have a chat.

Correct. But that is a code issue not a question of the property boundary. Most cities and counties have codes that restrict building height and how close you can build to your lot line. That said it’s not illegal you just need to request a variance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bigdesert10]

If I am a landowner and corner crossing is legal, what protections do I have from the liability of a person getting hurt on my property?

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

Every state that I know of has recreational exemptions for landowners. So long as you don't charge a fee of any kind for people to use your land, you are protected from liability.

 

[5MilesBack]

Yeah. Makes sense. I guess if my neighbors tree branch is hanging over my property I can cut whatever is hanging over.

Absolutely.

 

[HvyBeams]

If the corner isn't pinned, and you're within a few feet of a corner, it would be impossible to "prove beyond a reasonable doubt" that you trespassed.

 

[TC406]

As a resident of Southwest Montana, it is insane the amount of checkerboarded public land that there is around here. To the extent that Randy Newberg makes a point to take a helicopter in to "landlocked" parcels of public land to hunt elk in several episodes of OYOA and Fresh Tracks. There's nothing worse than watching a herd of elk sitting on public land, having a rout to get to them all on public land, but not being able to because it would mean crossing two corners. There is only one section that I know around here that on a map looks like a corner, but the landowner built his fence so that the corners overlap by about 6 feet and installed a gate to allow public access to the far parcel.

In my opinion the argument that crossing a corner violates the private property "airspace" of a landowner is nothing but semantics to justify the law, and let large landowners fatten their holdings and let their clients brag that they shot an elk on public land, that is not accessible to the public.

Corner crossing should not be a crime. I should be up to the landowner to decide how he wants the corner crossed. If he has a fence, than the BLM or BHA should be able to build a set of steps over the fence. If there is no fence, than something should be placed to delineate the corner.