Corner Crossing (is any hunter against it?)

[LandYacht]

I don't own a lot of land, but the mentality of it is ok to trespass is wierd to me. Some one just corner hopping might not be a big deal, but there is enough "stuff" that goes on with trespassing you can not blanket statement it. I had some steal targets up for over a decade, they disappeared. There have been other incidents that make you just shut it down for everyone. Basically if the public treated peoples property with respect, more land owners would be willing to allow trespassing ect.
the worst part, is hunters have been over 75% of my trespass issues. Not hunting, but i had a family pull up to my field, get out and start playing. The first time no big deal, kind of wierd, but no big deal, the third time. Um this is not public property, there answer was so. They got booted.

I don’t see how this is related to corner hopping. Trespassing is trespassing. It is the same argument that is made the majority of the time when people argue against corner hopping, I guess it’s a slippery slope? Allow someone to cross your air space while their arms occupy air space over your property and the then they will be sleeping in your bed?

I see corner hopping and trespassing as two very different things. One involves walking on your property.


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[rob86jeep]

I am a land owner and also the owner of a semi rural single family home on a residential lot. Should someone be aloud to corner hop my residential property as well?

If someone corner hopped your rural land (if it landlocked public), would you call the police on them for trespassing?

Now, if someone stepped onto your residential lawn (same as putting a foot down while corner hopping), would you call the police on them for trespassing? Or back to the rural property, what if someone was walking down your border (with public) and accidentally took a few steps on your land?

I personally wouldn't call the police in either situation.

 

[Btaylor]

I am a land owner and also the owner of a semi rural single family home on a residential lot. Should someone be aloud to corner hop my residential property as well?

If they are moving from public ground to public ground the answer is yes.

 

[rob86jeep]

It would be nice for a corner hopping case to make it to the supreme court. I heard on a podcast that ideally, it should be for someone other than hunters (due to having the hunting stigma clouding the actual issue). Maybe a couple of boy scouts heading into the woods for a scout trip, or middle age females going birdwatching. I bet that would play out favorably and get corner hopping legalized by case law.

 

[muddydogs]

I’m ignorant to this, but what rights does a rancher have to the BLM land sections within his property? Can he farm, keep cattle on, cut hay on it?

Its basically there land, they can't farm it but as long as they keep withing the grazing regulations they can run cattle, hunt it and recreate on the land within the law.

This is my biggest grip, if the public can't access the land then it should be off limits to the surrounding land owner, we're paying for the management of the land so the local property land owner can add to there acreage. Then if the local game and fish department can get some kind of access worked out for the public land we end up paying the landowner something for the access to public land that there using as there own. There's millions of acres of landlocked public land in the West being used by ranchers for there own gain while locking out the public paying for the land and all the while these farmers and ranchers have there hand in every government program made to subsidize them. Its one big welfare system with the working class people footing the bill.

 

[2ski]

So how do we write the law? Okay when theres no fence. Not ok when there is one?

We make money for our schools off public land leases. There is a reason for us to own inaccessible to us lands.

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[wytx]

They must pay a lease for the landlocked land I believe.
We manage a ranch that has public sections adjacent, made it a point to let the GW know corner crossing is not an issue for us. Trespassing is though, always some bad apple but most are respectful of the private.
I always wondered what of you had a 8 ft step ladder to put up over the corner?

 

[idelkslayer]

Here's a series of ridiculous questions.

Are all of these landowners making sure that when they place their corner fence posts that the post does not cross the infinitesimal point were their land and the public land meet? Do they make sure that the post doesn't lean and infringe on the public air space? Do they ensure that their fence line is entirely within the property boundary and within the imaginary vertical line of air space ownership?

I would be willing to bet that 99% of landowners don't feel like they have done anything wrong if their fencing crosses the boundary by a little bit. Why should we view this differently than a portion of someones body momentarily crossing the air above their property.

I think corner crossing should be legal.

If the landowner has a fence at the corner in question he has the right to not have it damaged. So people constantly climbing over his fence would cause harm to his property and he shouldn't have to deal with that, or he should be compensated.

I think that placing steps that go over the fence corner would be an acceptable solution. It would clearly mark the corner and prevent accidentally trespassing, and prevent damage to fences. In places where there is no fence a signed post could act as a clear marker for the public to ensure they are accessing at the proper location.

I also think it would be acceptable if this applied only to truly landlocked public parcels. If there is a way to reach the property even if it means accessing at a point a greater distance away then there would be no need to require corner crossing.

 

[wytx]

Not all fences are on property lines, some are placed where terrain makes it easier.
Great questions and points idelkslayer.

 

[FURMAN]

The last time I checked I could get from one piece of land to another which was corner connected without putting my foot on the two adjacent pieces of land. It is the entire premise of the game of checkers. I find it absolutely ridiculous that anyone would argue this fact and even more so that the government has taken a stance against it. "Corner crossing" absolutely should be legal.


In the argument where a land owner has chosen to place fences such that you can not physically step from corner to corner due to said fence placement I feel an easement should be mandated or public use of the fence should be allowed. I get the argument against what I just said. I was raised on a farm in country where everything is private. I am still not for blocking public access and never will be.

 

[Dos Perros]

For clarification, corner crossing may not be illegal. I don't think it's explicitly outlawed anywhere, at least where I have hunted. It's just not exactly legal either. I don't know of anyone who has been successfully prosecuted for corner crossing. The state game agencies and law enforcement do say not to do it, though.

 

[100percent]

Its basically there land, they can't farm it but as long as they keep withing the grazing regulations they can run cattle, hunt it and recreate on the land within the law.

This is my biggest grip, if the public can't access the land then it should be off limits to the surrounding land owner, we're paying for the management of the land so the local property land owner can add to there acreage. Then if the local game and fish department can get some kind of access worked out for the public land we end up paying the landowner something for the access to public land that there using as there own. There's millions of acres of landlocked public land in the West being used by ranchers for there own gain while locking out the public paying for the land and all the while these farmers and ranchers have there hand in every government program made to subsidize them. Its one big welfare system with the working class people footing the bill.

There are so many mistruths and falacies in this post I don’t know where to begin.

First of all, landlocked land is “mostly” leased to adjoining landowners for whatever commercial enterprise it will afford at an established fair market value or in a lot of cases, to the highest bidder. Some goes unleased but, if utilized by for commercial gain that entity can be prosecuted.

Second, as it pertains to outfitters, the land must be leased from the state or other govt entity by the outfitter to operate on or in some cases to operate even “near”. The land receives just compensation for private use in most cases.

Third, this land costs not one single dollar out of your pocket. It has been paid in full for several hundred years and there are no operating costs to bear.
Fourth, I don’t have an opinion on corner-hopping but, until the law changes, we must follow the law. As a side note, it is very depressing to see the consistent negative connotation private landowners receive on this site.
Land ownership is the American dream for most individuals. Why poop on the landowner and their rights? As a whole, they are personally contributing to government coffers much more than the individual who doesn’t own an acre.
Lastly, and more importantly, farmers and ranchers are not a welfare state. A better description would be “National Security” maybe even a national treasure. If you take away affordable commercial food production in this country you will see the meaning of welfare from one coast to to the other. History has repeatedly proven this maxim to be fact! History has also proven that food production in the hands of the government is not sustainable and inevitably results in a dictatorship! Many examples of this...
So before you rant incoherently and inconsistently, you might think about what you are saying. Be careful what you wish for!!!

 

[FURMAN]

For clarification, corner crossing may not be illegal. I don't think it's explicitly outlawed anywhere, at least where I have hunted. It's just not exactly legal either. I don't know of anyone who has been successfully prosecuted for corner crossing. The state game agencies and law enforcement do say not to do it, though.

I have been specifically told by several different game wardens in multiple states that if I were to get caught I would be ticketed and could take it up in court. I do not have the time nor money to waste messing with it. I completely disagree with it but it doesn't change mind about the hassle.

 

[5MilesBack]

A guy was walking his dog by my house yesterday. His dog took a dump on my grass. He had the audacity to place one foot on my grass to pick up dog crap. Didn’t even have the common courtesy to trespass up my walkway, knock on my door, then ask permission to pick up dog crap. Uncivilized world we live in.

Yep, the guys a dirtbag for "allowing" his dog to crap on your lawn. Lots of dirtbags in society these days.

 

[Dos Perros]

I have been specifically told by several different game wardens in multiple states that if I were to get caught I would be ticketed and could take it up in court. I do not have the time nor money to waste messing with it. I completely disagree with it but it doesn't change mind about the hassle.

Yup and that's why folks generally don't do it. I could lose my job if convicted so that's strong enough deterrent for me.

 

[Redside]

My main issue is the government owning land that is not accessible by the public. If we can’t get to it, “we” shouldn’t own it.

What happens when the adjacent landowner decides to sell or give his land to RMEF or other public groups and the land opens up? That's happened and now we have more access. Don't discount what might happen in the future.

Also, for the people saying that allowing corner crossing will lead to more trespassing. That reminds me of the anti gun argument when discussing concealed carry leads to more crime...criminals don't care what the law says they'll break it anyway.

 

[Dos Perros]

I also wouldn't be surprised if, in my lifetime, a cost-effective technology is developed that would convey a person through the air safely to landlocked public. That's right folks, some bad ass hoverboards or something like that.

 

[2five7]

I don't really care whether its legal or illegal, but I do wish that each state would have a clearly defined set of rules regarding it, and that they would enforce those laws.

 

[BuzzH]

There are so many mistruths and falacies in this post I don’t know where to begin.

First of all, landlocked land is “mostly” leased to adjoining landowners for whatever commercial enterprise it will afford at an established fair market value or in a lot of cases, to the highest bidder. Some goes unleased but, if utilized by for commercial gain that entity can be prosecuted.

Second, as it pertains to outfitters, the land must be leased from the state or other govt entity by the outfitter to operate on or in some cases to operate even “near”. The land receives just compensation for private use in most cases.

Third, this land costs not one single dollar out of your pocket. It has been paid in full for several hundred years and there are no operating costs to bear.
Fourth, I don’t have an opinion on corner-hopping but, until the law changes, we must follow the law. As a side note, it is very depressing to see the consistent negative connotation private landowners receive on this site.
Land ownership is the American dream for most individuals. Why poop on the landowner and their rights? As a whole, they are personally contributing to government coffers much more than the individual who doesn’t own an acre.
Lastly, and more importantly, farmers and ranchers are not a welfare state. A better description would be “National Security” maybe even a national treasure. If you take away affordable commercial food production in this country you will see the meaning of welfare from one coast to to the other. History has repeatedly proven this maxim to be fact! History has also proven that food production in the hands of the government is not sustainable and inevitably results in a dictatorship! Many examples of this...
So before you rant incoherently and inconsistently, you might think about what you are saying. Be careful what you wish for!!!

Your post isn't factual at all, where to begin.

Federal Public lands are NOT leased at fair market value, but rather based on an out of date Act of Congress and executive order:


The formula used for calculating the grazing fee was established by Congress in the 1978 Public Rangelands Improvement Act and has remained in use under a 1986 presidential Executive Order. Under that order, the grazing fee cannot fall below $1.35 per AUM/HM, and any increase or decrease cannot exceed 25 percent of the previous year’s level. The annually determined grazing fee is established using a 1966 base value of $1.23 per AUM/HM for livestock grazing on public lands in Western states.

You're also wrong that Federal Land doesn't cost the American Tax Payer...it 100% absolutely does. Administrating public land grazing, mineral development, wind/solar development all cost the tax payer. There's also PILT that is paid to the counties based on the amount of federal land found in each county, that comes from the taxpayer as well. Of course lets not also forget about firefighting costs, weed spraying, government subsidized predator control, and all the other administrative things that the taxpayer pays for.

Federal leases never go to the "highest bidder", I cant out-bid a current lease holder even if I wanted to pay 2-3 times more for the right to lease it. Most every State has lease agreements that allow the current lease holder to match anyone that may outbid them. Its a rigged game that favors private land owners hugely.

You're also wrong about State leases as well, many are more an AUM than Federal, but still not based on fair market value.

As to outfitters...I don't know if a maximum of a few hundred dollars to operate a year on State and Federal land is "fair and just" compensation. I don't believe so, but that's just my opinion. I know in WY, on State ground outfitters pay 10 cents an acre to lease for hunting with a Statutory maximum they have to pay per year, no matter how many clients they take or how much state land they operate on.

Also, ever taken a look at the farm subsidy data base? The public is paying out the ass for the poor farmers. In your home State of Mississippi, between 1995-2017 your farmers have received 9.52 billion in subsidies. I often wonder if they're better at farming the land or "farming" the Government?

EWG's Farm Subsidy Database

EWG's Farm Subsidy Database put the issue on the map and is driving reform. Just ten percent of America's largest and richest farms collect almost three-fourths of federal farm subsidies; cash payments that often harm the environment.

farm.ewg.org

All that to the point that muddydogs has a valid point and his post is more factual than your rant. I also don't believe that allowing corner crossing is a violation of any property right, and I do it when the need arises.

 

[Trial153]

If a corner was crossed and there is no Aggrieved Party, the idea that it’s crime is ridiculous.