Corner Crossing (is any hunter against it?)

[204guy]

What about this quandary? I am a private land owner and have dealt with every issue imaginable in dealing with trespassing. Certain people forget the law and everything their parents ever taught them when a big buck or ducks are concerned. It must be primal? I don't have a set opinion on this (yet) but, think about this.. i want to feel corner jumping would be ok but, there are other concerns that give me pause. I keep coming back to a situation where a home, barn or get-away is on a private section within a reasonable distance to public section corners, you bought this property for the wide open spaces, the quiet, etc... or maybe it's been like that for 100 years, all of a sudden corner jumping is legalized and several hundred people access the far section through my/our property and ruin the peace and privacy that I once enjoyed. I invested my life savings and untold sweat equity for this opportunity. Overnight, my paradise is compromised and value tanked. My question is how would you repay this loss and what does it do for land value in these situations, which property taxes are based on? What is the gain for joe public? Does he win individually while the group loses or vice versa?
Read clearly, this theoretical in my situation but, very real in many instances across the west.

Still haven't seen an argument against that isn't a ridiculous red herring or greed based.

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You got both. Congrats...?

 

[Milestone522]

My preferred method of public land corner crossing.

 

[Trial153]

What about this quandary? I am a private land owner and have dealt with every issue imaginable in dealing with trespassing. Certain people forget the law and everything their parents ever taught them when a big buck or ducks are concerned. It must be primal? I don't have a set opinion on this (yet) but, think about this.. i want to feel corner jumping would be ok but, there are other concerns that give me pause. I keep coming back to a situation where a home, barn or get-away is on a private section within a reasonable distance to public section corners, you bought this property for the wide open spaces, the quiet, etc... or maybe it's been like that for 100 years, all of a sudden corner jumping is legalized and several hundred people access the far section through my/our property and ruin the peace and privacy that I once enjoyed. I invested my life savings and sweat equity for this opportunity. Overnight, my paradise is compromised and value tanked. My question is how would you repay this loss and what does it do for land value in these situations, which property taxes are based on? What is the gain for joe public? Does he win individually while the group loses or vice versa?
Read clearly, this theoretical in my situation but, very real in many instances across the west.

This is a great illustration of the unreasonable entitlement mentality that many landowners currently have. That’s like me listing a ranch for sale with 5000 acres but only 2500 are deeded. Why should the public be denied access to their land to make your land “worth more”? Furthermore why should the public pay for the management of land they can’t access so that an individual can profit from the use of that land while the public is denied access. So your sweat equity is of value while while ours isn’t ?

 

[rob86jeep]

What about this quandary? I am a private land owner and have dealt with every issue imaginable in dealing with trespassing. Certain people forget the law and everything their parents ever taught them when a big buck or ducks are concerned. It must be primal? I don't have a set opinion on this (yet) but, think about this.. i want to feel corner jumping would be ok but, there are other concerns that give me pause. I keep coming back to a situation where a home, barn or get-away is on a private section within a reasonable distance to public section corners, you bought this property for the wide open spaces, the quiet, etc... or maybe it's been like that for 100 years, all of a sudden corner jumping is legalized and several hundred people access the far section through my/our property and ruin the peace and privacy that I once enjoyed. I invested my life savings and untold sweat equity for this opportunity. Overnight, my paradise is compromised and value tanked. My question is how would you repay this loss and what does it do for land value in these situations, which property taxes are based on? What is the gain for joe public? Does he win individually while the group loses or vice versa?
Read clearly, this theoretical in my situation but, very real in many instances across the west.

How would it be any different then if the neighboring corner (private property) sold their land to the state (or allowed public access) also drawing the same crowds that would come if corner crossing became legal for sure? You wouldn't ask that property owner to compensate you for your property becoming less secluded since he sold a portion of his to the state/fed government drawing more people.

 

[204guy]

Funny you should say that Trial, ranches are very commonly listed with highly inflated acres, you have to read the fine print to see where only 50% of the land is actually deeded, the rest is land locked(or not) public.

 

[rob86jeep]

I'm still wondering if anybody that's against corner crossing would press charges against neighborhood kids stepping over the corner of their property (while not actually stepping foot on your property) on their way to the playground? If not, then you probably don't have any fight in saying corner crossing should be illegal.

 

[Trial153]

Funny you should say that Trial, ranches are very commonly listed with highly inflated acres, you have to read the fine print to see where only 50% of the land is actually deeded, the rest is land locked(or not) public.

That’s the reason I stated it. I have seen it and it considered common practice in many places.

 

[100percent]

This is a great illustration of the unreasonable entitlement mentality that many landowners currently have. That’s like me listing a ranch for sale with 5000 acres but only 2500 are deeded. Why should the public be denied access to their land to make your land “worth more”? Furthermore why should the public pay for the management of land they can’t access so that an individual can profit from the use of that land while the public is denied access. So your sweat equity is of value while while ours isn’t ?

It may be a great illustration indeed and my reason for posting but, that is the recurring theme and what deeply concerns legislators who have the power to change these laws. Do they alienate their big donors and tax base or appease the masses? That is ultimately the question.
Thank you for not making this personal, I hope you read that I want to agree with the OP and may still but, the landowner in me knows the challenges associated with dealing with the public where hunting is concerned and the outrage a change in these laws would stir with landowners affected. It's a tough decision to navigate.

 

[MtGomer]

? How are you getting corner to corner? Crossing right over the corner?

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Here I drew it for you.
The white shaded represents the private sections. The blue X represent BLM, USFS etc.
you step from blue x to blue x. Don’t touch white.

There’s an argument to be made that you’re in temporary aerial trespass. But some argue that to trespass there has to be 1)intent 2) damages.

 

[wapitibob]

"There’s an argument to be made that you’re in temporary aerial trespass. "

The Chief Game Warden laughed when I asked about trespassing thru the ranch "airspace" at the corner. It's a non issue in WY.

 

[Scooter90254]

It should be legal. The only reason why it’s not is to proctect tracks of public land for individual use.

It’s as simple as that.

 

[Sccritterkiller]

"There’s an argument to be made that you’re in temporary aerial trespass. "

The Chief Game Warden laughed when I asked about trespassing, thru the ranch "airspace" at the corner. It's a non issue in WY.

Did you also check with the local sheriff for the unit you will be hunting? You can still be charged with trespassing, although a lesser charge than by a GW is my understanding, by the sheriff they just wont take your gear.

 

[MtGomer]

"There’s an argument to be made that you’re in temporary aerial trespass. "

The Chief Game Warden laughed when I asked about trespassing thru the ranch "airspace" at the corner. It's a non issue in WY.

I agree. Aerial trespass is a pretty weak, pathetic excuse.

 

[Btaylor]

It may be a great illustration indeed and my reason for posting but, that is the recurring theme and what deeply concerns legislators who have the power to change these laws. Do they alienate their big donors and tax base or appease the masses? That is ultimately the question.
Thank you for not making this personal, I hope you read that I want to agree with the OP and may still but, the landowner in me knows the challenges associated with dealing with the public where hunting is concerned and the outrage a change in these laws would stir with landowners affected. It's a tough decision to navigate.

A legislators responsibility is to represent the best interest of all the people. Kevin has already told you how this gets fixed and that is by the government taking eminent domain of the corners and creating access easements. Make it 5 or 10 yards wide and mark it. If you cross outside of that marked area, you get a big fine and lose hunting rights for 3 years or something. Create the access and make the violation painful then both sides of the argument can STHU.

 

[cuerro viejo]

As far as corner crossing being illegal, that's one of the big issues. In a lot of states it's not specifically mentioned in the laws whether it's illegal or legal.

As for mentioning a podcast, that was me. I just didn't want to take credit for a good idea that wasn't mine. The podcast didn't say it was legal and to do it, it mentioned having a non hunter test the law as any hunter caught would likely be held to a different standard.

I agree that trespassing is bad. The problem is nobody (and I said nobody) would call the police if someone stepped over a corner of their residential or rural property if it didn't damage anything or have them even step foot on their property. But, someone that owns land which landlocked private land, holds people to a different standard. This shows it has nothing to due with private property rights but only means to prevent access to public property.

Stepping on and over a fence will eventually ruin the fence. You didn’t pay to put it up or maintain it but feel equal ability to use it?

I personally don’t have a CC issue and think it should be legal as long as it doesn’t weaken shooting over property lines laws but I also don’t have corner that is the only way to public land, with that said sure wouldnt expect Landowner to maintain my access points.

 

[100percent]

A legislators responsibility is to represent the best interest of all the people. Kevin has already told you how this gets fixed and that is by the government taking eminent domain of the corners and creating access easements. Make it 5 or 10 yards wide and mark it. If you cross outside of that marked area, you get a big fine and lose hunting rights for 3 years or something. Create the access and make the violation painful then both sides of the argument can STHU.

I remind that I don’t need to be told. I

A legislators responsibility is to represent the best interest of all the people. Kevin has already told you how this gets fixed and that is by the government taking eminent domain of the corners and creating access easements. Make it 5 or 10 yards wide and mark it. If you cross outside of that marked area, you get a big fine and lose hunting rights for 3 years or something. Create the access and make the violation painful then both sides of the argument can STHU.

Oh my!!! Read my post... I’m leaning on the pro side of corner crossing. It does no good for Kevin or Santa Claus to tell “me” anything. Legislation is the only fix and I simply provided just one of many potential landowner views to bring perspective. Talk of Imminent Domain is sure to scare hell out of every landowner in America. Newton’s law states “for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Forgive me for being cautious. There are other concerns here than just letting a few guys cross a fence.
I’m not paranoid nor, am I a conspirator but,. legislation follows the position of power (money). In this case, the position of power is with the landowner and that will not change unless citizens unite and PROVE beyond doubt that “right trumps might”. Talk and insults won’t get you there!
Again, I am leaning on the side of legal fence crossings but, all views need to be considered.

 

[Btaylor]

Best I can tell the only two viable options are that the Gov't does 1031 exchanges with private landowners so both sides consolidate their holdings to eliminate the patch work holdings or they create access easements to eliminate the corner crossing issue. I suspect that most landowners who are butt hurt about the whole corner crossing issue would also be the ones most adamantly against a 1031 exchange to consolidate holdings. It does not appear that is what many want, they want to control what they dont have to own. A legal easement cures the whole problem in my mind. Some landowners are going to be butt hurt because they lose control of the public property but such is life. By that same token though if easements were created, they should be strictly adhered too and violations there should be punitive. I dont want to hear a hunter bitch and moan about access, then be given an easement only to violate that.

There may be other viable options but I have heard of them. What I do know is something should be done about it because the rules as they stand now in some places are nonsensical at best.

 

[100percent]

Good points!

 

[100percent]

Good points!

For perspective consider, Charles Goodnight, Texas Ranger and cattleman is credited with this checkerboard purchasing strategy to provide water availability for his cattle with limited funds to buy whole tracts. At the time he was protecting himself from govt annexation and free land programs that threatened his life and livelihood. He settled the staked plains of Texas and much more! As a ranger and rancher he and a few others provided the very opportunity that threatened his existence. Were his actions selfish or conspiring? Maybe but, he was doing what he could to protect himself from the government he helped create.
In this case, we are now dealing with repercussions and effects of bad government decisions from long ago. It cuts both ways!

 

[Middleofnowhere]

...or they create access easements to eliminate the corner crossing issue.

Access easements would be great, but would you advocate the government (us) pay for them? Or just confiscate the private property through eminent domain without compensation?

There is a sweet piece of land for sale near me that borders BLM land, unfortunately no recorded easement, it’s landlocked by private property on two sides and BLM on the others. Should the other private owners or BLM be forced to provide an easement to that land?