9MM ammo for bears defense?

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A heavier bullet with more velocity, for bear, is better. Knowing that nearly all handguns are inadequate for killing angry, big bears, then you want the least inadequate you can get. To a point. If you can’t shoot it accurately and quickly under stress then it’s not a good choice of caliber or you need more practice until it is a good choice

It’s true, handgun bullets only destroy what they touch because of their low velocities. No hydrostatic shock like rifles. Handguns rely on penetration and shot placement. The 10mm’s 1mm larger bullet than the 9mm is insignificant. What matters is the cartridge and how fast it sends that bullet. A 10mm sends a 220gr hard cast 1200fps vs the 9mm sending a 147gr hard cast 1100fps (Underwood ammo stats). That faster moving heavier bullet is going deeper and breaking through more stuff (hide, meat, bone, organs). That’s better. Shot placement matters for all calibers. It matters a little more for a 9mm than it does a 10mm. And it matters a little more for a 10mm than a .44. And so on. Probably not quantifiable, but when you are already under gunned no matter the size handgun you bring (barring maybe the 454 Casull), it might be just enough difference to keep you alive. Take what advantage you can get.

Here is a good write up discussing everything being discussed in this thread, revolver vs semi auto, what caliber is best, how handguns kill. He talks in terms of self defense against humans but it all applies to large predators Penetration and shot placement is key to handguns.


Even if ft lbs and knock down power is all a myth, bigger cartridges with bigger bullets are better for bears if you can shoot it well. I value a semi auto over a revolver for more rounds and easier to shoot accurately. And 10mm because I shoot it a lot (and consider it the minimum of acceptable inadequate). People who don’t think more rounds are useful have not read enough about bear DLP shootings or are cherry picking the info. That said, anyone proficient and confident with a big .44, .454, .500 revolver, great choice! I’m not even that keen on a 10mm so I just can’t get behind a 9mm even though there are examples of it doing the job. If there was such a thing as a .41 or .44 in semi auto I might chose it If I found I could get 3-4 accurate shots off quickly. But I can have fun shooting 500+ rounds in a day at the range with heavy 10mm loads. Anything bigger and I doubt that would be true.
 
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slim9300

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A heavier bullet with more velocity, for bear, is better. Knowing that nearly all handguns are inadequate for killing angry, big bears, then you want the least inadequate you can get. To a point. If you can’t shoot it accurately and quickly under stress then it’s not a good choice of caliber or you need more practice until it is a good choice

It’s true, handgun bullets only destroy what they touch because of their low velocities. No hydrostatic shock like rifles. Handguns rely on penetration and shot placement. The 10mm’s under 1mm larger bullet than the 9mm is insignificant. What matters is the cartridge and how fast it sends that bullet. A 10mm sends a 220gr hard cast 1200fps vs the 9mm sending a 147gr hard cast 1100fps (Underwood ammo stats). That faster moving heavier bullet is going deeper and breaking through more stuff (hide, meat, bone, organs). That’s better. Shot placement matters for all calibers. It matters a little more for a 9mm than it does a 10mm. And it matters a little more for a 10mm than a .44. And so on. Probably not quantifiable, but when you are already under gunned no matter the size handgun you bring (barring maybe the 454 Casull), it might be just enough difference to keep you alive. Take what advantage you can get.

Here is a good write up discussing everything being discussed in this thread, revolver vs semi auto, what caliber is best, how handguns kill. He talks in terms of self defense against humans but it all applies to large predators Penetration and shot placement is key to handguns.


Even if ft lbs and knock down power is all a myth, bigger cartridges with bigger bullets are better for bears if you can shoot it well. I value a semi auto over a revolver for more rounds and easier to shoot accurately. And 10mm because I shoot it a lot (and consider it the minimum of acceptable inadequate). People who don’t think more rounds are useful have not read enough about bear DLP shootings or are cherry picking the info. That said, anyone proficient and confident with a big .44, .454, .500 revolver, great choice! I’m not even that keen on a 10mm so I just can’t get behind a 9mm even though there are examples of it doing the job. If there was such a thing as a .41 or .44 in semi auto I might chose it If I found I could get 3-4 accurate shots off quickly. But I can have fun shooting 500+ rounds in a day at the range with heavy 10mm loads. Anything bigger and I doubt that would be true.

I bet if you looked at the penetration difference between a 9mm Buffalo Bore and the same 10mm round, it would be marginal. If anyone has any empirical tests, I would love to see them. For me I struggle to even pack a pistol. I have bow hunted the backcountry without a side arm or bear spray for nearly 20 years. Carrying a compact 9mm is bearable for certain hunts. I planned on buying a Glock 29 for years but never could pull the trigger due to the weight and size, and I already own a ton of other handguns. Glad I have an option now that I am willing to carry.


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bsnedeker

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Don't worry, I'm sure you'll have 100% agreement on this one...lol!

I carry a nine in grizz country and I feel fine about it. In my opinion, if you are comfortable with it then it's good for you.

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Almost a year and a half and this thread is still going! To funny!

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Gen273

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Phil Shoemaker’s bullet of choice in the 9mm:
Buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=388
His story is on the bottom of that page.

This is what gets my vote, Phil proved that this round works. However, I hope you never have to prove it yourself.
 

Beendare

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I bet if you looked at the penetration difference between a 9mm Buffalo Bore and the same 10mm round, it would be marginal. If anyone has any empirical tests, I would love to see them. ...

Yeah, I haven't packed a pistol for many years either....I still don't on many hunts...my bow is a pretty formidable weapon on its own.

I've seen some impressive penetration tests with 9mm hard cast. And the heavy hardcast looks to outpenetrate the fancy but lighter penetrating ammo.

The problem with actual field stats is...I believe....we are only seeing a % of successful cases. I think the vast majority of guys defending themselves against bears with a pistol just don't report it...or it doesn't make the reports. An example; I was in MT hunting above YNP a couple years ago and a pose rode through and kicked up out of the area we were in because a bowhunter in the canyon over from us shot a bear coming out on the trail at dark. So they had a wounded bear running around...or so they thought.

My calls to the F&G and anyone else I could think of...nothing, nada. No info. Shocking as they had a bunch of F&G folks there. A successful bowhunter defense against a bear- never made any official records.

I know of other cases where friends have defended themselves and due to the very harsh reporting standard didn't report it [shame on them...or not?]

Point is; we will ALWAYS hear about the deaths of a hunter killed by a bear...but WE DON"T always hear about the successful defense by pistol....worth considering IMHO when analyzing the stats.

_____
 

Gen273

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Here is what I went with. Shot a couple of grouse with them so far.... lots of penetration. Haha!

39ad31a39536bc042005747baa5dce1b.jpg



Ryan,

How well does the P365 handle the hot BB loads?


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Ryan Avery

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I have ran 40ish BB through it with no issues so far. I have about 1000 total round so far no issues.
 

Gen273

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I have ran 40ish BB through it with no issues so far. I have about 1000 total round so far no issues.

I have a p365 as a daily carry, and I have been thinking about using it as a woods carry because it's so small and light. Thanks for the info!
 
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Ryan Avery

Ryan Avery

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I have a p365 as a daily carry, and I have been thinking about using it as a woods carry because it's so small and light. Thanks for the info!

That's the very reason I bought it. I have a G29 and G19 that I quit carrying. I don't feel like the P365 is a boat anchor, so I always carry it, which is the whole point of an EDC or backcountry pistol.
 

slim9300

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Yeah, I haven't packed a pistol for many years either....I still don't on many hunts...my bow is a pretty formidable weapon on its own.

I've seen some impressive penetration tests with 9mm hard cast. And the heavy hardcast looks to outpenetrate the fancy but lighter penetrating ammo.

The problem with actual field stats is...I believe....we are only seeing a % of successful cases. I think the vast majority of guys defending themselves against bears with a pistol just don't report it...or it doesn't make the reports. An example; I was in MT hunting above YNP a couple years ago and a pose rode through and kicked up out of the area we were in because a bowhunter in the canyon over from us shot a bear coming out on the trail at dark. So they had a wounded bear running around...or so they thought.

My calls to the F&G and anyone else I could think of...nothing, nada. No info. Shocking as they had a bunch of F&G folks there. A successful bowhunter defense against a bear- never made any official records.

I know of other cases where friends have defended themselves and due to the very harsh reporting standard didn't report it [shame on them...or not?]

Point is; we will ALWAYS hear about the deaths of a hunter killed by a bear...but WE DON"T always hear about the successful defense by pistol....worth considering IMHO when analyzing the stats.

_____

I am sure this is very true. I could easily fall into the category you mentioned depending on the conditions.


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Sourdough

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There have been many close bear encounters when I would have been ecstatic to have had even a stick, especially the time when that big Alaska Coastal Brown Bear was on top of me. So I could have often appreciated a 9mm handgun. Even a .22 Rim-fire, would have been useful. Even a fairly stout stick.
 
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Bunkin

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Does any one have a recommendation for a hard cast bullet that I can buy loose and reload? Also safe for a Glock (isn't there bullets that the glock barrels don't like??)
 

mtnkid85

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Does any one have a recommendation for a hard cast bullet that I can buy loose and reload? Also safe for a Glock (isn't there bullets that the glock barrels don't like??)


These are the bullets used by BB. Ive loaded and shot a few of them.
 
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You all got me, made the plunge on two boxes today at about $60. Maybe this thread will come back to life for another 7 pages on how the 357 ain’t no good 🤣?

8DE83085-3BA9-4141-A574-7CCBF6BECAD0.jpeg
 

Beendare

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Does any one have a recommendation for a hard cast bullet that I can buy loose and reload? Also safe for a Glock (isn't there bullets that the glock barrels don't like??)
I don't know of any.
You still want to run a bunch of whatever you choose through your pistol as a function check. These are mass produced handguns....even Glocks have some feed ramp issues I've heard of. Yep, its big $$$ in ammo but your life is worth it eh? - grin

I shoot the Buffalo Bore stuff in my 9, and Underwood 200gr in my 10- both stock pistols. Both function perfectly.

IME, You have to run a lot of hard cast in these to show the first signs of leading; 300 rds plus....so if you clean it regularly- its no big deal. Hard cast bullets have a lot higher Brinnell rating than a soft lead bullet.

______
 

Wrench

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Ryan, I shot a big black bear at 10 feet with a 10mm 200xtp and measured 16+" of penetration. I entered the front of the skull, exited the rear and entered the top of the neck / loins to its stopping point.

I get that 10 isn't 9 and xtp isn't solid, but penetration should be close enough for argument sake.

I would be more concerned about getting rounds on target than what the headstamp says. After my bear encounter, I actually backed off the 10mm because the recoil blast and noise can affect how well i shoot under stress.

Just shoot and make good hits till you are sure you have enough in it to win.....and if you started with chest shots, consider leaving one or two in the mag to shoot it in the head if you can.

I'd not lose any sleep over it!
 
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