1911’s in general, 9mm versions specifically

[RockAndSage]

All this talk about Tisas got me interested, just bought this oneView attachment 917614

Two fistfuls of .38 Super and Jesus Malverde...

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

The A1 models have poor sights that can’t be easily changed, no front strap checkering, and no beavertail grip safety. All are things you want, and the sights and beavertail are functionally requirements. The Stingray has a bob tailed grip (which I hate). If you don’t want a threaded version, don’t the B9- they are available lots of places.

Stingray it is!

 

[RockAndSage]

I purchased one of the Tisas B9BA stingrays. It’s their aluminum framed commander length, with the bobbed grip. Then I fortunately, found this thread as a good tinkering reference.

Anyone have any useful maintenance tips for 1911 aluminum frames?

I’ve had a couple aluminum framed pistols, but never anything I held on to for long, and never one in a 1911 platform. It’s a little hard to find reliable info on how best to maintain them because there seems to be a lot bias against them. I’ve read SOME of the older aluminum frame 1911s from the 60s allegedly cracked or galled with use, so now of course all modern aluminum framed 1911s are guilty by association in some people’s eyes. Which logically doesn’t add up, considering beretta, CZ, and etc also use aluminum frames for some models. However, I will concede I’ve seen a lot of galvanic reactions between dissimilar metals in the plumbing on houses. I know enough that dissimilar metals (like aluminum and steel) in contact with one another when exposed to moisture/salts (ie sweat in a holster) or excessive movement (slide reciprocation) does warrant special attention.

Any 1911 guys have some useful insight into this, especially on optimum greasing and/or lubrication?

EDIT: This thread has me on the watch lists for one of the base model b9r steel/government 9mms too. That sounds like a lot of fun paired with some Dawsons. Great topic.

Galling can be an issue if the machining is really rough, but in most cases it's entirely preventable with good lubrication, as you suggest, and shouldn't be a problem with decently made guns. Especially if the gun has a good hard anodizing, you should be fine. I also wouldn't worry about galvanic corrosion. Only exception to that would be a graphite-based lubricant, which could be a problem in damp places or sweaty EDC, as graphite is known to enhance galvanic corrosion. So stay away from anything with graphite in it, and stay away from light oils. Go with a heavy oil, or even better a good lightweight grease, like TW-25b or one of the cherrybalmz greases. Not a heavy grease though, they aren't good in semi-autos. A heavier oil or light grease.

You should be good to go with the frame in general, I wouldn't worry about cracking an aluminum frame these days, esp in 9mm. If it's something you're really concerned about, get a Sprinco Recoil Managment Guide Rod - they absorb a lot of the shock of the slide-on-frame impact with a heavy secondary recoil spring built into the rear of the rod, that gets engaged just before the slide hits the frame. Unlike the ShokBuffs, the Sprinco system actually captures that energy and uses it to propel the slide forward again, so it's win-win. I put one in a .40 S&W Sig 229 about 15 years ago, and it's been the softest shooting .40 I've ever fired. Feels closer to hotter 9mm than .40. I'd love to put one in my 9mm DWX Compact, but they don't make them yet.

 

[jonpall]

The A1 models have poor sights that can’t be easily changed, no front strap checkering, and no beavertail grip safety. All are things you want, and the sights and beavertail are functionally requirements. The Stingray has a bob tailed grip (which I hate). If you don’t want a threaded version, don’t the B9- they are available lots of places.

Why do you hate bobtail grips? I haven't had one, but have considered getting one (the 4.25" TRP).

 

[24valve]

Anyone picked up or been able to check out some of the Tisas models?

I picked up a Tisas B9R DS earlier this year, and have been happy with it for the money ($600 from a local sporting goods store).

Had a few malfunctions in the first 200 rounds, but replaced the extractor with a wilson BP extractor and got some staccato 2011 mags and haven't had any issues for the 600 rounds since then.

I've shot it side by side with tisas B9R single stack, and the grip is definitely wider on the dual stack.

Should anyone decide to upgrade the iron sights on a B9R DS, the front sight dovetail is a Novak cut 1911 sight, and the rear sight dovetail is a Glock cut.

 

[ztc92]

I picked up a Tisas B9R DS earlier this year, and have been happy with it for the money ($600 from a local sporting goods store).

Had a few malfunctions in the first 200 rounds, but replaced the extractor with a wilson BP extractor and got some staccato 2011 mags and haven't had any issues for the 600 rounds since then.

I've shot it side by side with tisas B9R single stack, and the grip is definitely wider on the dual stack.

Should anyone decide to upgrade the iron sights on a B9R DS, the front sight dovetail is a Novak cut 1911 sight, and the rear sight dovetail is a Glock cut.

I’m the owner of the B9R and shot along with @24valve. I agree with what he said, the DS is a bit wider grip but both shoot well. It also is about the same weight as my single stack B9R because the DS has a polymer frame vs the steel of the B9R. I liked both equally well and honestly think I’d be happy with either gun. My B9R in factory configuration and with factory mags has ran about 400 rounds without a single malfunction, about 200 of which were cheap steel cased American Eagle ammo and the rest were just standard FMJ’s.

 

[nephewjephew]

I picked up a B9r DS earlier this spring, haven't shot much or at all this summer but its 245rds (all blazer) and no malfunctions. Completely stock at this point. I don't have anything like it to compare but I really like shooting it.

 

[PBBananaHammock]

Galling can be an issue if the machining is really rough, but in most cases it's entirely preventable with good lubrication, as you suggest, and shouldn't be a problem with decently made guns. Especially if the gun has a good hard anodizing, you should be fine. I also wouldn't worry about galvanic corrosion. Only exception to that would be a graphite-based lubricant, which could be a problem in damp places or sweaty EDC, as graphite is known to enhance galvanic corrosion. So stay away from anything with graphite in it, and stay away from light oils. Go with a heavy oil, or even better a good lightweight grease, like TW-25b or one of the cherrybalmz greases. Not a heavy grease though, they aren't good in semi-autos. A heavier oil or light grease.

You should be good to go with the frame in general, I wouldn't worry about cracking an aluminum frame these days, esp in 9mm. If it's something you're really concerned about, get a Sprinco Recoil Managment Guide Rod - they absorb a lot of the shock of the slide-on-frame impact with a heavy secondary recoil spring built into the rear of the rod, that gets engaged just before the slide hits the frame. Unlike the ShokBuffs, the Sprinco system actually captures that energy and uses it to propel the slide forward again, so it's win-win. I put one in a .40 S&W Sig 229 about 15 years ago, and it's been the softest shooting .40 I've ever fired. Feels closer to hotter 9mm than .40. I'd love to put one in my 9mm DWX Compact, but they don't make them yet.

Thank you for the feedback.

Do you use grease on all bearing surfaces, or just the contact points between the slide and frame with oil on all remaining bearing surfaces?

 

[RockAndSage]

Thank you for the feedback.

Do you use grease on all bearing surfaces, or just the contact points between the slide and frame with oil on all remaining bearing surfaces?

About the only time I use an oil is for a quick application on a more-or-less assembled gun, or if I need the oil to crawl deep into a spot on its own. Oils have a hard time staying put, especially compared to an appropriately weighted grease - the same action that allows oils to crawl into deeper parts of the gun has it crawling away from your bearing surfaces too over time, with gravity, cycling, and its own molecular action. That, or just drying out when exposed to the air. And the lighter the oil, the worse all that usually is. I'd take just about any motor oil over CLP anytime, but a lighter motor oil in winter and a heavier one in summer (0w20 vs 20w50, for example), because of how they perform differently in cold temps vs hot ones. But with a good lightweight grease you can generally expect at least 5x the round count or just time on a gun before you need to relubricate, over most oils. The key thing to remember is just about anything will work better than running a gun dry, it's mostly an issue of how well it works and for how long. Just keep reapplying whatever you're using as needed and you'll be fine, in most cases. The more demanding a gun's performance needs are though, the more specialized the lube should be.

 

[Team4LongGun]

The average on demand clean bill drill shot cold from “special” people is around 6 seconds- if it has to be clean.

W...T....H?? This has to be a typo.....

You generally share some great info on here, but man, 6 seconds? Maybe "special ed"

I wonder where your opinion on tier 1 unit/"special" shooting standards comes from. There are absolute standards, and 6 seconds would get a guy laughed off the range. Hell 3 isn't special.

For reference, I don't normally train civilians, but this past Monday had 6 guys and 4 gals in the course. One had prior pistol training. Right out the gate we timed first round hits from holster, neutral stance, not HOG. This was working draw stroke/handling/economy of motion only. Zero rounds fired the first hour. 3.5 hours later everyone cut their times in half. 5 of the 10 then did bill drills under 5 seconds. Civilians. None former MIL/LEO. Not a brag-giving example of recent data.

Someone else mentioned contract work-eval day 1 hour one your proficiency is tested. If you can't meet the standard, you are escorted off property. I'm not going to publish times, but 3 second bill drill won't blow doors off.

In general, speaking of "special" dudes and 2.5 seconds, yes that is skilled. Going from 3 to 2.5 takes work and good amount of proficiency. I'd argue going from 6 down to 4 is faster than losing .25 under 3 seconds on a bill. Shaving a tenth under 2 is monumental, and now were talking .2 splits or better. I do agree cold makes a significant difference.

Add in reloads? Now were talking special and skills. I find the bill drill is a decent gauge, but drills involving reloads is a better representation of overall skills.

*edited for spelling

 

[PBBananaHammock]

About the only time I use an oil is for a quick application on a more-or-less assembled gun, or if I need the oil to crawl deep into a spot on its own. Oils have a hard time staying put, especially compared to an appropriately weighted grease - the same action that allows oils to crawl into deeper parts of the gun has it crawling away from your bearing surfaces too over time, with gravity, cycling, and its own molecular action. That, or just drying out when exposed to the air. And the lighter the oil, the worse all that usually is. I'd take just about any motor oil over CLP anytime, but a lighter motor oil in winter and a heavier one in summer (0w20 vs 20w50, for example), because of how they perform differently in cold temps vs hot ones. But with a good lightweight grease you can generally expect at least 5x the round count or just time on a gun before you need to relubricate, over most oils. The key thing to remember is just about anything will work better than running a gun dry, it's mostly an issue of how well it works and for how long. Just keep reapplying whatever you're using as needed and you'll be fine, in most cases. The more demanding a gun's performance needs are though, the more specialized the lube should be.

That all tracks and is just the info I was hoping to get. Thank you for taking the time for a nuanced explanation. Much appreciated.

 

[Dobermann]

Anyone picked up or been able to check out some of the Tisas models? Always wanted a 1911 and this thread gave me a kick in the pants to make it happen. I see a few people have or talked about getting the nightstalker.

I'm leaning towards the stainless A1 TC model but wonder if there's any good reason to spend a little more for one of the "gucci" models. These are all the single stack 9mm options.

Don't have a center fire pistol can and doubt I ever will (but I could be pretty easily convinced if there are some good reasons to shoot with one, lol).

View attachment 917579

If you don't settle on one of those options, or want to look at others, could be worth checking out Bul Armory. Not sure what they run in the US, but the quality is a step up.

 

[Formidilosus]

W...T....H?? This has to be a typo.....

You generally share some great info on here, but man, 6 seconds? Maybe "special ed"

I stated clean, on demand and cold. “On demand” as in something like 3 times in a row clean, and lose your job type thing if you miss a single round out of the 8 ring on a B8 bull (or 8 inch circle).

That is very different than “can miss a single shot, or you get 2 out of 3 attempts, or the coke bottle target, or “C” zone counts, etc.

Maybe I’m guessing.

I wonder where your opinion on tier 1 unit/"special" shooting standards comes from.

I don’t generally state opinions. As well, the neat thing about matches, is the scores are public.

There are absolute standards, and 6 seconds would get a guy laughed off the range. Hell 3 isn't special.

Oh of course clean 3 second bill drills are easy…. Not too long ago they put a bill drill version in a major match, but everything outside the A zone was a No shoot. If I recall correctly, the average clean run by all GM’s was mid 3 seconds- and there were a bunch that had at least one C zone hit. The fastest clean was high 2’s.

 

[NSI]

Oh of course clean 3 second bill drills are easy…. Not too long ago they put a bill drill version in a major match, but everything outside the A zone was a No shoot. If I recall correctly, the average clean run by all GM’s was mid 3 seconds- and there were a bunch that had at least one C zone hit. The fastest clean was high 2’s.

That's a great gut check on a few levels. I'm going to throw it in our local Saturday match later this month and report with hit factors and pistols used. Thanks for the idea.

I know that if my job was on the line and this was the standard, I'd be taking 2 seconds to break the first shot and I'd be shooting .3 splits to be safe. Breaking 3 with that kind of pressure would be indeed doable but difficult.

-J