You are excellent with quote breakdowns. Me less so. I'll just number my points.
The global disconnect I think is a comparison between what is optimal for power users (you), vs. what I think is generally the best practice for the bottom 99%.
I don’t frame my statements or responses around what world class can do- I frame it around the audience it is intended for. The audience here is a thread about 1912’s and quite a few people learning to shoot 1911 relatively seriously.
1. The experience of power users that tune their guns is not a realistic look at what typical folks should be doing. It's like talking about ultra marathon running when a guy is asking how to jog better.
No. You keep saying “tune” a gun. Unless you mean adjust an extractor correctly- which this thread is full of people learning to do easily, no- you do not have to tune anything.
What does “tune” mean to you? It’s not an engine.
2. Certain 1911s can be tuned by changing out a few parts and avoiding light recoiling ammo. But some of them still choke and power users ditch them.
What does that even mean? Did you read this thread that you are posting this in? I literally bought the cheapest 1911 made ($399) and had it working correctly in sub 20 minutes with 4 different types of magazines.
What is your personal experience with 1911’s for serious use- say in the last decade? What guns, what mags, what ammo, and what did you do to them?
3. The mass shooting / terrorist point is something I'm sure you'd want back. What do you think the ratio of those events to other lawful uses of firearms? By far the most lawful civilian uses of firearms are nothing like what you described. Most are going to be around or in the home, people you know, at the workplace, or random assault type events. Civilian intervention in mass shooting or terrorist events is exceedingly rare compared to the field. We are probably talking about less than a hundred total in the United States this century?
Reread what I wrote.
4. You, of all people, know that the problem in a self-defense event will be adrenaline, lack of training, and what's going on between your ears. You also know that far less than 1% of regular gun carriers are even close to ready to perform in those scenarios.
And I care why? This thread isn’t about bumbling boobs. It’s a thread about what 1911’s and some best practices.
5. This brings up the safety point. You've shot more than me, though my experience with handguns is notable. If you've gone to similar events as me and interacted with the proficient-but-not-good public, I know you watch even experienced shooters sit there and fail to disengage their safeties with the slightest pressure applied to them. For those people---e.g. the vast majority---safeties are a point of failure.
No- safeties are an enabler. Far more people have ND’s than need to use their pistol martially- and safeties help greatly in not having ND’s. Again- the same bumbling boobs that miss a safety also miss reloads, draws, target transitions, movement, etc. The local soccer moms ability to drive has nothing to do with what vehicles can be driven best. I simply don’t care what bumbling boobs do- it takes a modicum of correct practice to make safety usage a 100% non factor. Literally 100% of the military is back to being issued a pistol with a safety and it is a non issue- and they suck.
6. 45 1911s are poor in general reliability but I agree with you they are better than 9mm 1911s.
You are repeating internet talking points, and apparently match shooting- while ignoring all the glocks that didn’t work at those same matches. Glocks at USPSA matches are no more reliable than 1911’s or 2011’s at matches- they all get stupid stuff done to them, and they all malfunction.
It is quite easy to make a modern 1911 way more reliable than is needed for carry.
But shooters are much slower with full power 45 1911s, when speed of multiple shots on target does matter.
Nope. 100% false. Not only false, but those matches you shot for a decade show that- Single Stack has a higher hit factor than Production. By quite a bit historically. Single Stack has a HHF than Carry Optics.
7. I shoot 1911s more accurately than a modern handgun too, so that point is conceded. Both in terms of accuracy potential of the platform and in terms of practical application. There is no debate. A proficient trained shooter firing a 1911 will achieve more and tighter hits at any distance, as far as that point goes. I don't think it's worth the costs.
These “costs” simply aren’t there if someone doesn’t want them to be.
This pistol has more than 20,000 rounds with one malfunction with 185gr semi-wadcutters
This pistol went over 30,000 rounds without a single malfunction before being redone in 9mm (the Glock behind it is at 70,000’ish rounds at that point)
This pistol is now nearing 12,000 rounds- it has not had a single malfunction:
These pistols were brand new here-
This is one of them at just over 40,000 rounds with zero cleaning ever, and zero malfunctions to this point.
Here it is after being thrown down range in gravel- somewhere around 30,000 rounds on it here-
Of those four Staccato P’s- three are over 30,000 rounds with zero (0) malfunctions; and one is over 60,000 rounds with 2x malfunctions due to not ever being cleaned and so much carbon built up under the extractor that it couldn’t flex back and grab the case rim (right at 43,000 rounds). Extractor was scraped and hasn’t malfunctioned since.
I’ve shot a Glock or two as well.
Iron sighted G17 with over 80,000 rounds on it in this picture, with the dot gun behind it at about 20,000 at this point-
The dot gun from above. G22 frame and 17 slide-
Both those Glocks got shot until they had to be retired: one at 86,000 +/- rounds, and one with just over 100,000 rounds. Hit the picture limit, but in that same time span 2x G19’s were shot until they had to be replaced one at 120,000+/- and the other at just over 100,000. A G22 as well- though it doesn’t take much (thankfully) to wear one out. Multiple Berettas and Sig 226/228’s as well. Then of course Sig M18’s and 17’s.
Somehow I and those I am around continually get all the magical 1911/2011’s that just aren’t fussy.
