Most reliable and shootable 9mm semi auto pistols

[ElPollo]

@Formidilosus , any experience or observations with the Wilson grip module for the p365? This looks the most like the brouwer m1811 that I could find for p365.

https://wilsoncombat.com/grip-module-wcp365-xl.html

This one for the p365 is also interesting in that it has a thumb shelf for the left hand, presumably to help minimize muzzle rise.

https://www.icarusprecision.com/online-store/AIR-Polymer-XMACRO-Grip-Module-p649749283

I have the WC XL frame on a standard, non-red dot 3.1” slide. It has been reliable for me through about 1500 rounds and didn’t cost half what the gun did. The texture on the grip is excellent. I had to do some mild sanding on it.

On the thumb shelf. Reasonable idea, but it screws over your holster fit and takes you into the world of custom kydex. It’s a positive that p365s have a ton of stuff available for them. It’s easy to go overboard with them into gamer territory. I’ve considered upgrading my slide for a RD version, but have avoided it because what I have is simple, packable, light, and it works.

 

[mustelid_master]

For the M&P 5.7- I haven’t used any enough to say.

What is a high enough round count through a pistol and number of failures to call a pistol reliable? what conditions should the gun be run under?

 

[HighUintas]

I have the WC XL frame on a standard, non-red dot 3.1” slide. It has been reliable for me through about 1500 rounds and didn’t cost half what the gun did. The texture on the grip is excellent. I had to do some mild sanding on it.

On the thumb shelf. Reasonable idea, but it screws over your holster fit and takes you into the world of custom kydex. It’s a positive that p365s have a ton of stuff available for them. It’s easy to go overboard with them into gamer territory. I’ve considered upgrading my slide for a RD version, but have avoided it because what I have is simple, packable, light, and it works.

That mischief machine grip is quite a bit of money and I wonder if it would really make that much difference. One could even just find a good deal on a used standard p365 and find someone's take off xmacro grip for $50. That grip looks plenty big.

I'm wondering if the 3.1" vs 3.7" barrel really matters much at all other than weight. A 0.6" difference in sight radius isn't going to make a huge impact on accuracy

 

[Formidilosus]

What is your thought on the 5.7x28 cartridge in general?

Now that there are loadings such as Gokd Dots, it’s certainly more interesting. My issues is that it isn’t available in any pistol I really want to shoot.

What is a high enough round count through a pistol and number of failures to call a pistol reliable? what conditions should the gun be run under?

Haha. That’s the great question isn’t it. The answer is all relative to what probability someone wants for a malfunction.

For me- if they are known, consistent reliable pistols models- so Glock, HK, etc. 500 problem free rounds- with 200 rounds being the carry ammunition is a start for me. If it is a relatively unknown or new pistol make/model, closer to 1,000 rounds. For something like a 1911 I expect to need to tune the extractor and maybe try different mags- so the first 100 or so rounds is checking those things. Once I believe it is good, then 500 rounds through it.


As for what conditions- all of them. I do not shy away from weather. If it is raining, I shoot. If it is snowing, I shoot.

 

[Formidilosus]

That mischief machine grip is quite a bit of money and I wonder if it would really make that much difference. One could even just find a good deal on a used standard p365 and find someone's take off xmacro grip for $50. That grip looks plenty big.

It’s all relative. There’s a lot more to a “grip” than size. The Mischief Machine one is good because it tries to mimic a 1911 grip shape and size. That is the most forgiving of mistakes grip that exists.

None of it matters without skill, and I would highly suggest you find a truly good pistol class that is focused on shooting performance and take it.

I'm wondering if the 3.1" vs 3.7" barrel really matters much at all other than weight. A 0.6" difference in sight radius isn't going to make a huge impact on accuracy

That’s quite a large difference actually when talking barrels this short. The only benefit to a shorter barrel is in ease of comfort when concealing- for everything else a longer barrel is better.

 

[ElPollo]

That mischief machine grip is quite a bit of money and I wonder if it would really make that much difference. One could even just find a good deal on a used standard p365 and find someone's take off xmacro grip for $50. That grip looks plenty big.

I'm wondering if the 3.1" vs 3.7" barrel really matters much at all other than weight. A 0.6" difference in sight radius isn't going to make a huge impact on accuracy

I bought my P365 early, right before the XL version came out. Really wished I had waited and got the red dot ready larger version. I think the XL is really the sweet spot and that the bigger versions are getting too big for me. That said, I am still using my non-red dot 3.1” version with the Wilson XL grip frame more than any of my other handguns. The gun that carries the easiest is the gun you are most likely to have with you and use. I carry my 3.1” quite a bit in a pocket holster. Not ideal for quick draw, tacticool stuff, but it’s there when I need it. It comes off easily when I need to store it to go in somewhere that doesn’t allow CC. It also doesn’t come off when I take off my pack or interfere with a pack belt or a bino harness. I couldn’t do that with the 3.6” XL version with a red dot, much less the larger versions.

The XL frame is big enough for me to get a full grip and definitely makes the gun more shootable. It also is long enough to allow the magazine to drop free in reloads. The shorter version hangs up on your palm and won’t drop free. I have no experience with the metal grip-frame that Form recommended, but I am not particularly interested in buying one either. I’m sure it would make the gun more shootable, but the beauty of these guns is that they are light and packable while still being pretty shootable. I would not want to add the extra weight and cost.

As for the barrel length, I don’t see much of a ballistics argument for an additional 0.6” given that Form carries a 22 magnum for grizz in AK. The longer barrel might be a bit more shootable and gives you a bit more space for a bigger light. I am still using the high output version of the TLR-6 on mine. It’s slim, and light weight, but gives me enough light (300 lumens) for short range defensive work.

I recognize that I’m not a cool kid with my handgun choice. But for me, this gun has a similar footprint to a j-frame snubby, has twice the capacity, shoots a lot better, reloads faster, and gives me the capability of a weapon-mounted light. Would I carry it if I were still working in grizz country? Hell yeah, no question.

 

[HighUintas]

It’s all relative. There’s a lot more to a “grip” than size. The Mischief Machine one is good because it tries to mimic a 1911 grip shape and size. That is the most forgiving of mistakes grip that exists.

None of it matters without skill, and I would highly suggest you find a truly good pistol class that is focused on shooting performance and take it.





That’s quite a large difference actually when talking barrels this short. The only benefit to a shorter barrel is in ease of comfort when concealing- for everything else a longer barrel is better.

Any recommendations for classes within 8hr drive of SLC area?

 

[Formidilosus]

Any recommendations for classes within 8hr drive of SLC area?

Probably the best option right now is-

TPC – Tactical Performance Center

tacticalperformancecenter.com

Rossen and Brian can shoot and teach.

 

[KoolBreeze]

Got several but the one I enjoy shooting and carrying the most is the P365x. Just about perfect for me.

 

[Bluumoon]

Is there a “SWFA” of the pistol red dot world for these? Or the answer just to learn to shoot irons?

 

[rileybassman]

Is there a “SWFA” of the pistol red dot world for these pistols? Or the answer just to learn to shoot irons?

People love to hate on them, but I've had over 15 Holsuns and never had one fail or lose zero. The new SCS carry is my current fav.

RMR is probably hard to beat for reliability, but I haven't had a chance to test their enclosed version and can get 3 SCS for the same price.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

 

[HighUintas]

Anyone have any experience with the p365 fuse? I handled a few at Scheels today. The xl, the x macro, and the fuse.

The fuse felt the best by far especially with the magwell. The x macro felt really good too and the XL was pretty meh. That grip is a bit too short.

Also, the mag release on the XL was not operable with my thumb. It's something about the height of the release and the grip shape. It was very easy with the macro and fuse.

With the fuse having a longer 4.3" barrel and sight radius I wonder if that would be worth considering. It is very close in size to the Glock 19

 

[Bluumoon]

Anyone have any experience with the p365 fuse? I handled a few at Scheels today. The xl, the x macro, and the fuse.

The fuse felt the best by far especially with the magwell. The x macro felt really good too and the XL was pretty meh. That grip is a bit too short.

Also, the mag release on the XL was not operable with my thumb. It's something about the height of the release and the grip shape. It was very easy with the macro and fuse.

With the fuse having a longer 4.3" barrel and sight radius I wonder if that would be worth considering. It is very close in size to the Glock 19

I misspoke at the beginning of the thread, I bought my wife the Fuse not the Legion. Only a few hundred rounds through it so far. The slide release was unbearably difficult out of the box, but is already tolerable. I like it, the grip is very good imo. Not sure they have a safety option for the Fuse

 

[HighUintas]

I misspoke at the beginning of the thread, I bought my wife the Fuse not the Legion. Only a few hundred rounds through it so far. The slide release was unbearably difficult out of the box, but is already tolerable. I like it, the grip is very good imo. Not sure they have a safety option for the Fuse

They do not, but I looked up how to do it and it's super easy. The safety kit is about $45 and shouldn't take longer than 30 minutes. Have to cut a small slit in the grip module to accommodate it, but that's easy.

Yes, all three of the guns I handled had ridiculously stiff slide releases. The guy helping me said they do loosen up with use.

 

[TxLite]

People love to hate on them, but I've had over 15 Holsuns and never had one fail or lose zero. The new SCS carry is my current fav.

RMR is probably hard to beat for reliability, but I haven't had a chance to test their enclosed version and can get 3 SCS for the same price.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

I much prefer the size of the window on my holosun 507c vs my rmr. Finding the dot in the rmr is a chore.

I have no doubt that the rmr is a more robust sight though

 

[Formidilosus]

Is there a “SWFA” of the pistol red dot world for these?

There is not. Lots people will say “my -insert so and so- dot has worked great”. However when 10-20 of them are being shot at a time for 1,000-10,000 rounds, there are very few that are actually reliable day in and day out. Real easy- Aimpoint Acro P2 and COA.

Other than those two, everything else is a trade off- some pretty big.

Or the answer just to learn to shoot irons?

Always. A dot is not a substitute for true competency with the irons.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

Yes. It’s probably the best overall field pistol.

With the discussion about the PMR 30, and in light of the posts about 1911's, grip ergonomics etc.. I handled one of these today in a local shop. Holy hell.. the grip on those are absolutely the worst thing I have ever put in my hand. Super skinny and about twice as deep as any 1911 I've handled. I felt like a fat girl with an iphone max in her hand. The freaking thing needs a Pop Socket on it to be able to hold on to.