9mm Buffalo Bore 147gr +p vs G9 124gr +p woodsmen for Predator defense?

For sure a good bonded JHP beats an FMJ. Except for Big Bears, it is probably the best all rounder.

Btw. I listened to that Phil Shoemaker podcast a while back where he used on old SW Model 39 single stack with BB loads to take out a grizzly. Even he says it was not the best choice, usually carrries a big bore wheel gun, but what he had at the time and admits he was lucky as the bear was focused on his clients. The bear had no idea he was there and he took 5 or 6 shots broadside on it, again with the bear not noticing him. No frontal shots or big bones to penetrate. He also said it was bad idea that he just had the gun and with the mag in it, no spares or we would have shot more. It is a good listen.
 
Phil Shoemaker stopping one bear with a 9mm because it was what he had certainly doesn't mean he gives it his endorsement. It was a very good listen.

Most don't recommend hp bullets, bonded or not due to the fact they tend to penetrate less.
 
I am saying bonded are better the fmj for penetration, and are a good all round bullet choice except for bears/big boned then hard cast solid is king.
 
I am saying bonded are better the fmj for penetration, and are a good all round bullet choice except for bears/big boned then hard cast solid is king.
I keep seeing you refer to bears as big boned. You are aware that Predators (specifically bears) actually have very brittle thin bones compared to prey animals right? Bears are thin skinned and pretty fragile compared to ungulates.

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Obviously 9mm is a little small for bear but so is my 45acp according to most people. If it is all you have I would lean toward the buffalo bore due to the heavier mass to punch through. I use underwood hard cast 255gr +p in my 45 and it cycles flawlessly. I would check them out as well for 9mm. They have a 147gr +p flat nosed coated "black cherry" hard cast to maximize penetration for bear defense. They bullet specs are the same as buffalo bores bullet and the underwood is a coated bullet to reduce lead fouling chances and is in a nickel case. Best part is that the underwood is a little cheaper.
 
The big black bear I shot with a bow many years ago seemed the have a pretty sturdy skull to me. Maybe I should say where more penetration is needed vs big boned.
 
The big black bear I shot with a bow many years ago seemed the have a pretty sturdy skull to me. Maybe I should say where more penetration is needed vs big boned.
Im not tying to argue or get a gotcha on you. I just think there is a misconception that bears body structure is a big tough armored thing that it just isnt.


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I personally use 45 Super out of my 1911 thats modified to handle them. A 250gr Hard Cast at over 1100fps will shoot through the grizzly in my area.
 
Long story short, the only way to stop a charging bear is to shoot it in the brain or the spine. You can shoot a griz in the heart with a 338 win mag and it can run 100 yards and still maul you to death. So a more powerful hand gun isnt helpfull.

So if you have to hit it in the brain or spine the diameter of the bullet is irrelevent. The only thing you need is sufficient pentration. 9mm penetrates more than enough, even with most hollowpoints, let alone hardcast ammunition.

If I want to go practice with my 10mm it's $40 per pox of 50. You can get 9mm for $10 box. Shooting your 10mm sucks, and your going to shoot a 9mm faster and more accurately.

I sold my 10mm 3 weeks ago and will never go back. For what it's worth, I've dealt with more G Bears in the last 5 years than most guys will ever see in their lifetime.

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I question the "Even with most hollow points". We've shot cows in the head with 10mm hollow points and they wouldn't penetrate the skull. I would never carry any hollow points for woods defense, but it's America and you're welcome to.
 
I question the "Even with most hollow points". We've shot cows in the head with 10mm hollow points and they wouldn't penetrate the skull. I would never carry any hollow points for woods defense, but it's America and you're welcome to.
A 9mm hollowpoint, any of them, can penetrate through a vehicle door, through the exterior panel and through the interior panel. Are we really going to pretend that a bears skull is stronger than 2 layers of 18guage sheet metal?

Have you ever read the side of the box on hollowpoints? To see what their penetratiom is?

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I want to further reiterate something I've already said in this thread.

Im not recommending hollowpoints for bear defense.

Its what I've been carrying and the data says it's more than sufficient.

That's what I'm doing and I have data to back up my decision.

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A 9mm hollowpoint, any of them, can penetrate through a vehicle door, through the exterior panel and through the interior panel. Are we really going to pretend that a bears skull is stronger than 2 layers of 18guage sheet metal?

Have you ever read the side of the box on hollowpoints? To see what their penetratiom is?

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They didn't penetrate a beef cows skull on two different cows, that's my point of reference. When I shoot one with a hardcast it zips right thru them. There's something that happens with fur, flesh, and some skull angles that'll do things a vehicle door just doesn't.
 
They didn't penetrate a beef cows skull on two different cows, that's my point of reference. When I shoot one with a hardcast it zips right thru them. There's something that happens with fur, flesh, and some skull angles that'll do things a vehicle door just doesn't.
How thick is the skin and fur covering a cows skull? Are we really going to pretend that that small layer of skin and fur are going to slow down a 1000 fps projectile? Its not kevlar.

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Grizz skull coming straight at you has a significant angle. I’ll stick with my .44 mag and hard cast.
 
How thick is the skin and fur covering a cows skull? Are we really going to pretend that that small layer of skin and fur are going to slow down a 1000 fps projectile? Its not kevlar.

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Don't let my experiences threaten your practices, but for those reading your posts I'm providing a second opinion.
 
How thick is the skin and fur covering a cows skull? Are we really going to pretend that that small layer of skin and fur are going to slow down a 1000 fps projectile? Its not kevlar.

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Don't let my experiences threaten your practices, but for those reading your posts I'm providing a second opinion.

A quick Google search shows that we're not the only ones to experience hollow point failures on skulls.
 

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Don't let my experiences threaten your practices, but for those reading your posts I'm providing a second opinion.
Ill say it again. Im not trying to convince anyone to do what I'm doing.

However my decision to use what I'm using is backed by actual real world data. Not something a stranger is claiming on the internet.

Speer 147 gr Goldot, penetrate 15 to 16" into ballistic gel.


Here is a link to a random video i just quickly googled

Carry whatever makes you feel comfortable. I carried a 10mm through multiple grizzly charges. Luckily I never had to use it. Im tired of carrying that heavy expensive to shoot brick.

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They didn't penetrate a beef cows skull on two different cows, that's my point of reference. When I shoot one with a hardcast it zips right thru them. There's something that happens with fur, flesh, and some skull angles that'll do things a vehicle door just doesn't.
So you have any pictures do the skull? Or recovered bullet?
Assuming if the bullet glanced it probably wasn’t found but a picture of the skull would be interesting.
 
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