9MM ammo for bears defense?

[Billy Goat]

Does any one have a recommendation for a hard cast bullet that I can buy loose and reload? Also safe for a Glock (isn't there bullets that the glock barrels don't like??)

Not a hard cast but Lehigh penetrator (similar to a hardcast in penetration) can be bought and loaded, that's what I do for the 10mm.

 

[Billy Goat]

You all got me, made the plunge on two boxes today at about $60. Maybe this thread will come back to life for another 7 pages on how the 357 ain’t no good ?

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I have always wondered why something like the .357 sig hasn't become more popular. With the modern 9mm bullets it seems it would make sense to use it more, possibly over a 10mm. It won't have the energy but if we agree it's coming down to penetration I'd think the 357's would have some advantages, especially in the muzzle blast and recoil department.

 

[Gen273]

Ryan, I shot a big black bear at 10 feet with a 10mm 200xtp and measured 16+" of penetration. I entered the front of the skull, exited the rear and entered the top of the neck / loins to its stopping point.

I get that 10 isn't 9 and xtp isn't solid, but penetration should be close enough for argument sake.

I would be more concerned about getting rounds on target than what the headstamp says. After my bear encounter, I actually backed off the 10mm because the recoil blast and noise can affect how well i shoot under stress.

Just shoot and make good hits till you are sure you have enough in it to win.....and if you started with chest shots, consider leaving one or two in the mag to shoot it in the head if you can.

I'd not lose any sleep over it!

Would you mind sharing the story of your encounter where you had to shot the black bear? Also, what are you carrying now instead of the 10mm? Was your 10mm a Glock 20?

 

[Beendare]

I have always wondered why something like the .357 sig hasn't become more popular. With the modern 9mm bullets it seems it would make sense to use it more, possibly over a 10mm. It won't have the energy but if we agree it's coming down to penetration I'd think the 357's would have some advantages, especially in the muzzle blast and recoil department.

I've shot a lot of charging boar hogs with a .357 and hollow points. It was such poor performance I bumped up to a .44 mag...but have since realized its all about the bullet and penetration...and less about the caliber.

Hollow points and expanding bullets are practically worthless on charging game....

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[slim9300]

Ryan, I shot a big black bear at 10 feet with a 10mm 200xtp and measured 16+" of penetration. I entered the front of the skull, exited the rear and entered the top of the neck / loins to its stopping point.

I get that 10 isn't 9 and xtp isn't solid, but penetration should be close enough for argument sake.

I would be more concerned about getting rounds on target than what the headstamp says. After my bear encounter, I actually backed off the 10mm because the recoil blast and noise can affect how well i shoot under stress.

Just shoot and make good hits till you are sure you have enough in it to win.....and if you started with chest shots, consider leaving one or two in the mag to shoot it in the head if you can.

I'd not lose any sleep over it!

Very good info. Thank you for sharing.


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[roosiebull]

Yeah, I haven't packed a pistol for many years either....I still don't on many hunts...my bow is a pretty formidable weapon on its own.

I've seen some impressive penetration tests with 9mm hard cast. And the heavy hardcast looks to outpenetrate the fancy but lighter penetrating ammo.

The problem with actual field stats is...I believe....we are only seeing a % of successful cases. I think the vast majority of guys defending themselves against bears with a pistol just don't report it...or it doesn't make the reports. An example; I was in MT hunting above YNP a couple years ago and a pose rode through and kicked up out of the area we were in because a bowhunter in the canyon over from us shot a bear coming out on the trail at dark. So they had a wounded bear running around...or so they thought.

My calls to the F&G and anyone else I could think of...nothing, nada. No info. Shocking as they had a bunch of F&G folks there. A successful bowhunter defense against a bear- never made any official records.

I know of other cases where friends have defended themselves and due to the very harsh reporting standard didn't report it [shame on them...or not?]

Point is; we will ALWAYS hear about the deaths of a hunter killed by a bear...but WE DON"T always hear about the successful defense by pistol....worth considering IMHO when analyzing the stats.

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So it’s like the Coronavirus...

 

[roosiebull]

That's the very reason I bought it. I have a G29 and G19 that I quit carrying. I don't feel like the P365 is a boat anchor, so I always carry it, which is the whole point of an EDC or backcountry pistol.

If you carry it and are familiar shooting it, it’s a great choice semantics aside... way better than a bigger gun you don’t carry

 

[Beendare]

If you carry it and are familiar shooting it, it’s a great choice semantics aside... way better than a bigger gun you don’t carry

Yeah not only to have it on you...but also to shoot accurately.

It took me a long time to get half way decent with my .44 revolver, probably due to the long trigger pull. If you have time to thumb the hammer back...then its a tack driver. Thats an "If" you have time though.

Not so with a Glock...a guy can get a lot of rounds on target quickly........ I do a lot of shooting with those. I can get high on the Glocks...so less sight picture lost due to recoil. I think that platform is a good choice as its ubiquitous across each model....all controls the same with only handle variations which equates to faster accurate shooting.

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[roosiebull]

Yeah, shooting a big revolver in double action is hard to do well, it’s a lot to dial in, I’m not good at it.

I won’t shoot my 500 in double action, it’s wasting ammo to me, I just cannot shoot it decent that way and have no desire to drill that until I can. Holding that heavy sucker on target and making it through the trigger pull seems impossible.

haven’t shot my 629 in double action either, probably won’t, too big of a hurdle with no reason to me, that’s not what those pistols are for

 

[Beendare]

Yeah, shooting a big revolver in double action is hard to do well, it’s a lot to dial in, I’m not good at it.

I won’t shoot my 500 in double action, it’s wasting ammo to me, I just cannot shoot it decent that way and have no desire to drill that until I can. Holding that heavy sucker on target and making it through the trigger pull seems impossible.

haven’t shot my 629 in double action either, probably won’t, too big of a hurdle with no reason to me, that’s not what those pistols are for

Yeah, I know what you mean. Slow fire with all day aiming on a stationary target doesn't count. I have a SW 629 Classic- beautiful pistol. With slow fire I can shoot it double action....but lets face it, the constant on these attacks is; they happen fast....you want something you can hammer the trigger and still hit what you are aiming at [Rob Lathum has a great video on that!]

A big heavy revolver is slow- no two ways about it. Are you counting on thumbing that hammer back? You might get off one good shot...which might be all you need with a big revolver...you better hope so.

A G19,G17, G20 can easily draw and get 3 shots on target- or more in under 4 seconds. Put a couple thousand rds through a Glock and it becomes an extension of your arm.

Personally, I'm glad to see a bunch of guys packing these 9's in the field....we will get a database of actual cases we can study....I think it will be a positive. The one factor we never know; How good that person was with his weapon.

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[Steve O]

These type threads are always interesting. Even when the guy who started It owns the place and asks a VERY specific question.

It’s hard to explain how big, strong, and fast a bear can be but this clip does a decent job.

You better be quick, good, and lucky in a situation like this. I don’t think it’s as easy as all the experts say it is.

 

[Wiscgunner]

There seems to be very little comparison between 9mm harcast and 10mm hardcast but this link from another forum test the 9mm 147 hardcast in gen and in 20ga steel then gel. I appologize if it violates the rules to share another forum.

Underwood 9mm & .40 S&W Hard Cast in Clear...

www.glocktalk.com

 

[Elkfitness]

These type threads are always interesting. Even when the guy who started It owns the place and asks a VERY specific question.

It’s hard to explain how big, strong, and fast a bear can be but this clip does a decent job.

You better be quick, good, and lucky in a situation like this. I don’t think it’s as easy as all the experts say it is.

That’s crazy every time I see that.


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[MuleDeerMike]

How does the 40 S&W with hardcast compare to a 9mm with hardcast as far as penetratiom? Negligible difference?

 

[Wiscgunner]

How does the 40 S&W with hardcast compare to a 9mm with hardcast as far as penetratiom? Negligible difference?

How does the 40 S&W with hardcast compare to a 9mm with hardcast as far as penetratiom? Negligible difference?

 

[Tleek]

I have a glock 19 and just picked up a little Kahr PM9. I have been looking for underwood and Buffalo Bore rounds locally and haven't been able to find any. We aren't allowed to order ammo online anymore. Im not really worried about aggressive bears around here, but Ill probably be carrying one or the other, likely the kahr, on backpacking fishing and maybe hunting trips. Its great to hear about people's experience using 9mm on animals. Ive seen videos of people hunting and dispatching trapped wild hogs, and it seems to do the job.

 

[Ripnbst]

I have a glock 19 and just picked up a little Kahr PM9. I have been looking for underwood and Buffalo Bore rounds locally and haven't been able to find any. We aren't allowed to order ammo online anymore. Im not really worried about aggressive bears around here, but Ill probably be carrying one or the other, likely the kahr, on backpacking fishing and maybe hunting trips. Its great to hear about people's experience using 9mm on animals. Ive seen videos of people hunting and dispatching trapped wild hogs, and it seems to do the job.

Trapped hogs are hardly a good comparison in my experience. You are shooting it once, likely in the head, likely at a distance measured in single digit feet. On a bear, if you're that close even with lethal hits you may not make it out of there alive and almost certainly you aren't making it out without some physical damage that you need to hit an ER to get taken care of. I'd shoot something heavy for caliber that will penetrate as deeply as possible. Dont worry about anything but penetration and weight retention.

 

[Tleek]

Trapped hogs are hardly a good comparison in my experience. You are shooting it once, likely in the head, likely at a distance measured in single digit feet. On a bear, if you're that close even with lethal hits you may not make it out of there alive and almost certainly you aren't making it out without some physical damage that you need to hit an ER to get taken care of. I'd shoot something heavy for caliber that will penetrate as deeply as possible. Dont worry about anything but penetration and weight retention.

Ya I’m sure there is a huge difference between shooting a trapped hog and a charging bear, my point was just that it’s great to see real life examples of 9mm on game. I saw a video a while back of some Russian officers shooting a brown bear with their service pistols. Two officers probably hit it 10 or 15 times and it dropped. Again, not really applicable to a charging bear scenario, but it is what it is. If I lived in Alaska I’d be more concerned. Living in CA I’m not too worried about bears but it’s interesting to know that 9mm has done the job on different sorts of animals.

 

[Beendare]

We used to shoot trapped hogs in the ear with a .22 long...dropped them like a sack of potatoes.

Of course we can't compare.

Tleek,
If you re in the SF Bay Area I have a FFL that will order you ammo cheap....assuming you have all of your Hunter safety and all.

 

[Tleek]

We used to shoot trapped hogs in the ear with a .22 long...dropped them like a sack of potatoes.

Of course we can't compare.

Tleek,
If you re in the SF Bay Area I have a FFL that will order you ammo cheap....assuming you have all of your Hunter safety and all.

Thanks buddy,
I further up the coast. I appreciate the thought though.