260 Ackley vs 6.5 Creedmoor

[TradLife406]

Thinking I need a 6.5 cal rifle. I'm leaning towards a 260 with the thought of improving it. Handloading obviously so I have that going for me.

Basically want to learn to shoot further or even inside 300 better and in wind. It'd be a prairie rifle for targets, pdogs, yotes and mulies.

I see Hornady brass is now available for 260 so that solves just about all the negatives I can see.

But the 6.5 being more popular has more rifle options.

Is the 200 Fps you'd gain from a 260 AI a big enough advantage?

Kinda looking at a Savage Long Range hunter in 260. Or the Tikka T3x Lite in 6.5. Something around $700.



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[KurtR]

In the grand scheme of thing i would say no

 

[PathFinder]

If you aren't pushing the practical limits of the 6.5, it probably isn't worth the trouble. I've been running the numbers for the 6.5 PRC and SAUM and can't quite justify another rifle for what I'd gain. If I were you I'd avoid Hornady brass, it's junk. To get them as consistent as Alpha Munitions stuff (just in terms of weight) half of them will be culled. Alpha brass is only $1.00 a piece and is in a league of its own.

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[howl]

I like 6.5 Grendel for the smaller stuff and targets inside 300. It'll go further, of course. A heavy barrel Howa Mini would be nice, but the bolt handle is on the wrong side. I dig the ARs we have in Grendel. Handy, cheap to feed carbines do most of what I want in a fun gun.

The reasons why on the Creedmoor don't really make sense for bolt action hunters, at least not to me. I would not go a Savage action for a gun I intended to run a lot. If you want cheap look at the Ruger Predator. If I used backwards bolt action, I would consider adding the AI chambering money to the Tikka T3 Lite money and a little more to see about a Tikka CTR in .260. Might as well spend it. It ain't my money!

 

[KurtR]

If you aren't pushing the practical limits of the 6.5, it probably isn't worth the trouble. I've been running the numbers for the 6.5 PRC and SAUM and can't quite justify another rifle for what I'd gain. If I were you I'd avoid Hornady brass, it's junk. To get them as consistent as Alpha Munitions stuff (just in terms of weight) half of them will be culled. Alpha brass is only $1.00 a piece and is in a league of its own.

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How much accuracy have you gained by sorting brass? Has your sd and es gotten that much better? I sorted and found it was not worth the time and effort. It gained me nothing measurable now if i was bench rest shooting it might be needed. I get 5 or so loads from my hornady brass before annealing that is with 42.5 h4350 and 143 eldx with rem 9.5 primers.

 

[PathFinder]

How much accuracy have you gained by sorting brass? Has your sd and es gotten that much better? I sorted and found it was not worth the time and effort. It gained me nothing measurable now if i was bench rest shooting it might be needed. I get 5 or so loads from my hornady brass before annealing that is with 42.5 h4350 and 143 eldx with rem 9.5 primers.

I struggled to get SD under 15-20 fps with the Hornady junk. With Alpha brass, I don't do anything but hit it with a VLD chamfer tool. Getting single digit SD was easy. No three loads during workup in my 6mm or 6.5 had an SD over 15 fps. My current load is 6.1 fps SD.

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[KurtR]

at 20 fps difference with my load running 2861 to 2841 there is a 4.5" difference in elevation and a 1.23 " in wind drift with a 10 mph 90 degree cross wind at 1000 yards. I am not a good enough shot yet. I have a 8-10 sd with the hornady brass . I have started shooting more and stressing less on stuff that has minimal returns and the trigger time has been way more beneficial for me than brass prep was.

 

[PathFinder]

at 20 fps difference with my load running 2861 to 2841 there is a 4.5" difference in elevation and a 1.23 " in wind drift with a 10 mph 90 degree cross wind at 1000 yards. I am not a good enough shot yet. I have a 8-10 sd with the hornady brass . I have started shooting more and stressing less on stuff that has minimal returns and the trigger time has been way more beneficial for me than brass prep was.

I agree 100% about the time spent on brass prep. That's why I bought the Alpha brass. Basically zero prep time and better quality than cheap brass with hours of prep. There's a point of diminishing returns with everything but I've loved my results with premium brass.

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[wind gypsy]

Is hornady brass that will go 6 firings really cheaper than small primer lapua that will go 20 and be much higher quality?

260AI is a sweet cartridge, Its hard to beat the cheap factory creed ammo when you don't feel like loading though..

 

[Rthur]

6.5 Addiction, lapua brass, a 6.5x55 "improved" if you are wanting to push the 6.5 a little.
140gr at 3050-3080 2k barrel life.
For ease of use 6.5 creed.

R

 

[Snowy]

I've had both. I agree the 6.5 Addiction is a more interesting bump up from 6.5C velocity. In your shoes a factory Tikka in 6.5C would be my call. Lapua brass, ELD-M or Scenar, not much to go wrong...

 

[ROJO23]

I have a 260 Ackley and it shoots very well. I have shoot a few 1/4" 100 groups and lots of 3/8" groups. I have never found an issue forming the cases, I simply load the 260 case and fire form it that away. I haven't noticed any real difference with accuracy when fire forming. I have shoot a couple of matches out to 900 yards and I am very happy. I am shooting 140 VLDs at 2850 fps. The last match I shoot there were 54 shooters and probably half were shooting the 6.5 creed, I was the only Ackley improved shooting. I pretty well known gunsmith said that the Ackley case design helps with accuracy and also increase case capacity.

 

[Kotaman]

I think you’re splitting hairs. Go with what your gut tells you. I was debating between a Proof .260 or a Gunwerks Rev X in 6.5 CM. I ended up with the 6.5 CM and with factory Hornady Precision Hunter ammo with the 143 ELD X @ 2730fps, my first group was enough to tell me I’m not going to even bother reloading for this one.

 

[KurtR]

Is hornady brass that will go 6 firings really cheaper than small primer lapua that will go 20 and be much higher quality?

260AI is a sweet cartridge, Its hard to beat the cheap factory creed ammo when you don't feel like loading though..

When you loose it at matches it is. I don't feel bad loosing pieces when there is not the time to dig around for it.

 

[KurtR]

I agree 100% about the time spent on brass prep. That's why I bought the Alpha brass. Basically zero prep time and better quality than cheap brass with hours of prep. There's a point of diminishing returns with everything but I've loved my results with premium brass.

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I chamfer the Hornady stuff and roll.

 

[Gatorgrizz27]

I'm happy the Lapua 6.5 CM brass is available, but honestly, when you're not having to form your case from another one or fire form it, using the Hornady brass for free isn't a big deal. So what if it only goes 6 firings, you can skip annealing the necks, probably only trim it once, throw it away and start over with more free Hornady brass. Obviously this is for average range and hunting use, the competition guys spend a lot of time doing case prep.

 

[Rucker61]

I think you’re splitting hairs. Go with what your gut tells you. I was debating between a Proof .260 or a Gunwerks Rev X in 6.5 CM. I ended up with the 6.5 CM and with factory Hornady Precision Hunter ammo with the 143 ELD X @ 2730fps, my first group was enough to tell me I’m not going to even bother reloading for this one.

My first group with that factory ammo was .33" . It's pretty accurate stuff.

 

[Kotaman]

My first group with that factory ammo was .33" . It's pretty accurate stuff.

I'm amazed actually. Out of this rifle, it is even more accurate than the Hornaday Match 140's.

 

[BrushyHillGuide]

Thinking I need a 6.5 cal rifle. I'm leaning towards a 260 with the thought of improving it. Handloading obviously so I have that going for me.

Basically want to learn to shoot further or even inside 300 better and in wind. It'd be a prairie rifle for targets, pdogs, yotes and mulies.

I see Hornady brass is now available for 260 so that solves just about all the negatives I can see.

But the 6.5 being more popular has more rifle options.

Is the 200 Fps you'd gain from a 260 AI a big enough advantage?

Kinda looking at a Savage Long Range hunter in 260. Or the Tikka T3x Lite in 6.5. Something around $700.



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I own both calibers and it’s really a toss up - the accuracy potential on these 2 cartridges is essentially equal. The Ackkey improvement does give a little extra case capacity, thus a little more velocity. This is nice but not sufficient to make a deciding difference between the 2 calibers. It also improves the accuracy (slightly) over a standard .260R. However, the case design for the 6.5 Creedmoor is exceptionally efficient; so the increased potential of the .260AI is minimal. Now that Lapua is making small primer brass for the 6.5cm, mimicking the extraordinary results with the 6.5x47Lapua, the accuracy potential is a wash.....with any slight edge going to the 6.5cm.

Today, the factory ammo choice for the 6.5cm is very large and still growing. There is no factory ammo for the .260AI but you can run factory .260R ammo in it but you won’t see the accuracy potential of the improved shoulder angle until you reload some of the fire formed cases. So, in a pinch, the 6.5cm has the clear advantage if you need to run grab a box of ammo.

For the above reasons, I’d just go with the Creedmoor unless you just absolutely HAVE to have a few more FPS. Nothing wrong with the AI but in an objective comparison today there’s really not much to lean towards the .260AI over the 6.5 Creedmoor.

“Hornady brass is now available for 260 so that solves just about all the negative” - HUH??? Lol! What the heck are you talking about?? That’s like saying, “I see FIAT is making an entry level mini van so that solves about all the negatives!” Lmao! I’d love to know what you’re talking about. Hornady brass is about as close to bottom of the barrel as it gets. What in the world are the “negatives” that it solves? Now, the introduction of small primer Lapua brass in 6.5cm solves a lot of negatives that kept people favoring the 6.5 Lapua; AND its another detractor (for me) from the .260 and .260ai because I can now use the high quality Lapua brass. Before, Lapua brass wasn’t available so I favored the .260s for reloading because of the ability to use stronger and more consistent brass. Lapua evened the playing field and gave the Creedmoor the clear edge with the inclusion of the small primer pocket. Lapua has long credited their use of small primers in the design of the 6.5L with its inherent accuracy. Now that we have that same feature in a caliber with a wide selection of factory ammo, it’s hard NOT to choose the Creedmoor. The ONLY down-side to shooting the small primer brass is that some factory actions may need to have the firing pin bushed to insure a centered pin strike. It wasn’t an issue in my 6.5cmSavage 10/110 Predator - it runs great - and my custom 6.5cm on a Deviant action has a small firing pin anyway. I favor the small primers over large for 6.5mm/.264 calibers with standard bolt face sized cases....

 

[BrushyHillGuide]

.......cont’d

Another advantage of the Lapua brass (besides uniformity) is the stout case walls. In the 6.5cm it produces the same velocity with a slightly (~.5gr-1gr) smaller charge than in other cases AND it withstands hotter loads better than ANY brand; particularly compared to the super soft Hornady! All this means I can get velocities rivaling the .260ai using a lesser brass, case fill % is lower than with other brass, I can get many more reloads with hotter loads than other brands of brass, I can get incredible accuracy with forgiving loads and my ES is usually under 6fos across 5 shots. This is awfully darn impressive. For example, I’m pushing 140’s at 2825fps out of a 24” Savage tube with only 42.3gr of H4350 and ZERO pressure signs. I’m not done with load development on my 22” Bartlein but at 42.2gr I was pushing 2746 with the same load and no pressure signs yet. I’m still looking for the high node.

Im pretty confused by the two rifle choices you’re looking at - they’re on opposite ends of the spectrum. Lol! One is a lightweight hunter model and the other is a heavy long range target rifle. It sounds, to me, like you’re not really sure which way you want to go. Nothing wrong with that but I’d suggest something in the middle. Like the Tikka CTR. It’s not as light as the T3X Lite but it’s an easy carry. You can get it in a shorter 20” barrel that’s EXTREMELY handy for a hunting rifle. Especially in tight cover and/or suppressed. They also have a 24” version if you want some extra speed and d don’t want a short barrel. My .260ai is a rebarreled CTR that’s one of my favorite hunting rifles but I shoot it at steel out to 1200yds. It’s a little heavier because of the large Nightforce NXS scooe but it could easily be lightened with another scope. I think the Tikkas are a better value and a better action than Savage; despite the incredible 10/110 I have in 6.5cm. I got exceedingly lucky with that particular rifle and don’t think it’s indicative of the average off-the-shelf Savage rifle. Tikka is cheaper and has a much better trigger and a fast growing aftermarket. The cerakoted CTR is extremely weather resistant. I’m really tough on my rifles and the Tikka has completely stood up to everything I’ve thrown at it.

Hope this helps a little. Sorry for the long a$$ post! Lol!

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