6.5 Creedmoor Penetration

[roosiebull]

Why think that anyone that reads the same thing as you will come to the same conclusion?

Seriously, own your decision and have confidence in it. You don't need to convince anyone else your decision is ok, and they are "wrong".

I wasn’t trying to convince anyone of anything or say you were wrong, I figured most people would want to educate themselves because there may be a better way, even if you are happy doing what you’re doing

I want to learn as much as I can, see the whole picture, might not change your program, but could help someone else, especially a young or recoil sensitive person… light recoil, small cartridge, mass destruction

 

[Mike Islander]

The chart i posted is a verified chart on an actual rifle that i own in my possession, with a large lot number of ammo i own in my possession. That i have fired from the rifle and verified first hand.

That has killed animals in the field.

Its not some theoretical bullshit, from my uncles best friends , little brothers, cousin.

Show us a comparison of 2 drop charts showing how the heavier bullets Peter put sooner.

That's what you said the problem with the heavier ones is, they run out of steam sooner.

Show us.

Don't waste your time and energy. I hit ignore as soon as he posted that lighter bullets are faster over distance.

Of all their 6.5 bullets, hornady recommends the 147 eldm for tactical use.

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And for target use. And for hunting use. And anyone who had been here long enough to be a WKR should know how incredibly well they work at killing animals.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Don't waste your time and energy. I hit ignore as soon as he posted that lighter bullets are faster over distance.

Hahahaha
I needed that.

 

[Mike Islander]

The chart i posted is a verified chart on an actual rifle that i own in my possession, with a large lot number of ammo i own in my possession. That i have fired from the rifle and verified first hand.

That has killed animals in the field.

Its not some theoretical bullshit, from my uncles best friends , little brothers, cousin.

Show us a comparison of 2 drop charts showing how the heavier bullets Peter put sooner.

That's what you said the problem with the heavier ones is, they run out of steam sooner.

Show us.

Don't waste your time and energy. I hit ignore as soon as he posted that lighter bullets are faster over distance.

"When you are only starting in the low to mid 2700fps range, they run out of steam and ability to expand reliably at distance."

= IGNORE LIST.

But that's just me.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Somebody link the 6.5 for deer/elk/whatever else thread and then close this disaster please.

 

[mtnwrunner]

It's almost there..........
Please keep this thread respectable.

Randy

6.5 Creedmoor/260 for Deer, Elk, and whatever else.....

Seeing that the 223 thread is such a success, I thought maybe I would start one for the Creedmoor/260. Seems like people are asking a lot about using them and various bullets, especially for elk. I've used mine for the last few years almost exclusively. I have some pics of bullet damage, albeit...

rokslide.com

 

[Grant76]

During a podcast, the Hornady rep was asked about using Hornady's target bullets for hunting.

While he conceded that they could work for hunting, he said Hornady would not recommend their target bullets for hunting. Why?

He said their target bullets had inconsistent expansion and were unreliable on game. Consequently, he said Hornady would not recommend target bullets for hunting because they did not want unhappy customers.

Yes. Target bullets can kill game animals.
Yes. A .223 has probably killed a grizzly bear.

It doesn't mean they are the best choice for either situation.

.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

DON'T HAVE TIME TO READ 176 PAGES? HERE'S THE CHEAT SHEET. “Bullets matter more than headstamps.” “Spent primers offer the supreme tutorial”. I’ve read it here and elsewhere online. It got my attention. I started digging and asking questions and listened. The 77gr TMK delivered by a .223...

rokslide.com

Worth reading

 

[rcook10]

I used to be pretty against smaller calibers for big game and started doing more experimenting with bullets for myself and the students I take out. My experiences matched much of what you see on the caliber kill galleries you see on the web site and it has certainly changed my opinion on calibers. What differs is my interest in meat preservation and minimizing lead in gut piles for the birds over raw killing power. Overwhelmingly what I have found is that with good placement match style or cup and core bullets always result in fast kills but very often resulted in disproportionate damaged meat versus other projectiles unless it was a perfect broadside through the lungs. That and the large amount of lead fragmentation has stopped me using them entirely. Monos are great for meat preservation, even with shoulder/hip hits but tend to be slow killers outside 25-2600fps and I also think I will stop using them after this years performance on several elk, deer and antelope. Bonded bullets like the terminal ascent and accubond continue to be the best of both worlds in my opinion. Everything seems to come together: quick kills, deep penetration, wide frontal area with big exits, significant enough fragmentation to wound heavily but not so much that they don’t stay together. I will say that they seem to be a little more finicky about what they go into to initiate expansion: light skinned game at the lower end of velocity can potentially result in suboptimal expansion which may explain why OP had some trouble with his TA in the first struck parts of his animals. I’m looking forward to a few more years of testing various types on various game builds. So far my golden child rifle loads are 150gr accubonds in a 270, the 175gr TA out of a 308, and the 140gr accubond out of a 6.5.

 

[jimh406]

Monos are great for meat preservation, even with shoulder/hip hits but tend to be slow killers outside 25-2600fps and I also think I will stop using them after this years performance on several elk, deer and antelope.

I'm not sure I follow your train of thought.

You said you changed your mind about small calibers. I think that means you are using them now. I think this means you were using 270 and 6.5 with monos when you got suboptimal performance. You say you want to reduce the lead, but then say you want to switch back to lead bullets.

Obviously, a larger diameter mono may approach the same amount of damage as a smaller one without lead even with if it has minimal expansion. As far as monos are concerned, one school of thought as you probably know is to go lighter gr weight to up the velocity. In other words, a 30 cal 130 gr bullet would obviously have more velocity than a 165 and be more likely to be going over 2500-2600 at most hunting ranges.

What mono bullets (brand, weight) were you using in what calibers?

Note: I still haven't shot an animal with a mono, and I'm not suggesting one is better than the other, just asking for some clarification on your experiences.

 

[fwafwow]

Regarding your comment on researching BC and minimum velocity, I don’t give a flip about what someone says on the internet or in a book. I’m going off real world results based on personal experience.

Why are you reading this thread, and also posting - thereby doing what you don’t give a flip about? And if personal experience is the key, why do you not want to deal with Silencer Central based on what you have heard about them?
Post in thread 'Suppressors'
https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/suppressors.334622/post-3351962. (I don’t care about or use Silencer Central, I just thought this was somewhat inconsistent.)

 

[rcook10]

I'm not sure I follow your train of thought.

You said you changed your mind about small calibers. I think that means you are using them now. I think this means you were using 270 and 6.5 with monos when you got suboptimal performance. You say you want to reduce the lead, but then say you want to switch back to lead bullets.

Obviously, a larger diameter mono may approach the same amount of damage as a smaller one without lead even with if it has minimal expansion. As far as monos are concerned, one school of thought as you probably know is to go lighter gr weight to up the velocity. In other words, a 30 cal 130 gr bullet would obviously have more velocity than a 165 and be more likely to be going over 2500-2600 at most hunting ranges.

What mono bullets (brand, weight) were you using in what calibers?

Note: I still haven't shot an animal with a mono, and I'm not suggesting one is better than the other, just asking for some clarification on your experiences.

I was underwhelmed with 120-130grain barnes tsx, ttsx and LRX and federal trophy coppers this year on longer shots in the 300+ yard range. All had impact velocities at or exceeding published minimums. There were even some pencil throughs on smaller framed animals (all on secondary shots when animals didn’t drop after initial impacts). I am well aware of the 130gr ttsx but in my limited experience those bullets are best used inside a couple hundred yards based on their marginal BC and me only getting 3000fps out of my short barreled 308s. I do really like them for my mentees as its a very low recoiling and flat shooting at modest ranges. From what I have seen first hand and read, there is less lead shrapnel left in the carcass with bonded bullets as compared with a match or cup and core bullet. This is well documented by recovered weights, gel xrays, and post mortems so I feel like I am at the very least reducing the amount of fragments my local bird and predator population has to eat. I am also looking forward There are new tin and sintered core bullets on the market that seem to offer similar performance as a bonded or cup and core without the lead. I will try to get some of these to play with in the next year or so.

 

[JGRaider]

Of all the things in life to worry about, lead shrapnel in my game meat isn't on the list. I've been eating what I kill for 50 years and not once have myself or anyone in my family encountered a lead fragment. You cannot beat, and often time not equal the killing prowess of Nosler accubonds or partitions.

 

[rcook10]

Of all the things in life to worry about, lead shrapnel in my game meat isn't on the list. I've been eating what I kill for 50 years and not once have myself or anyone in my family encountered a lead fragment. You cannot beat, and often time not equal the killing prowess of Nosler accubonds or partitions.

I agree, its not for me its for the birds, rodents, and predators that eat my gut pile and carcass.

 

[Rich M]

Didn't read the thread - just yapping...

A slow, light bullet just doesn't have the oomp! a slow heavy bullet or fast bullet has. I'm not particularly surprised that a soft 2600 fps 125-130 gr bullet isn't punching all the way thru.

Something has to give - either a harder bullet (less expansion/slower expansion), a faster bullet, or a heavier bullet for full penetration all the time. It is actually one of the reasons the old timers shot those big heavy bullets.

 

[ElPollo]

I was underwhelmed with 120-130grain barnes tsx, ttsx and LRX and federal trophy coppers this year on longer shots in the 300+ yard range. All had impact velocities at or exceeding published minimums. There were even some pencil throughs on smaller framed animals (all on secondary shots when animals didn’t drop after initial impacts). I am well aware of the 130gr ttsx but in my limited experience those bullets are best used inside a couple hundred yards based on their marginal BC and me only getting 3000fps out of my short barreled 308s. I do really like them for my mentees as its a very low recoiling and flat shooting at modest ranges. From what I have seen first hand and read, there is less lead shrapnel left in the carcass with bonded bullets as compared with a match or cup and core bullet. This is well documented by recovered weights, gel xrays, and post mortems so I feel like I am at the very least reducing the amount of fragments my local bird and predator population has to eat. I am also looking forward There are new tin and sintered core bullets on the market that seem to offer similar performance as a bonded or cup and core without the lead. I will try to get some of these to play with in the next year or so.

So lead issues are mostly a thing for raptors and corvids that have highly acidic digestive systems to dissolve bones and hair. If you are hunting in an area here that is a concern or if it is legally required. Look up these DRT bullets, give them a try, and let us know what you think. I hunted with standard monos for years and none of them ever did what the DRT did to the bull in this thread.

6.5 Creedmoor/260 for Deer, Elk, and whatever else.....

Are any of the cup and core traditional deer factory ammo worth a dang in 6.5 cm? Look to set up a new rifle, something 0-300 that's a little bit more cost effective than eldm. The one deer I shoot with bondstrikes barely left any blood. American whitetail? Fusion? I suppose if I've had success...

rokslide.com

 

[handwerk]

Granted I'm not a LR guy, but my crew has had great results with the 127 LRX out of our 6.5 CMs on deer/antelope.

 

[A-Brakke]

Last year I got my son a Ruger American in 6.5 Creedmoor. Last year he shot a white tail buck at 220 yards, broadside in the lungs (no shoulder) with a 129 grain Interlock. It performed fine and killed the deer but no exit. I wasn’t surprised that it wasn’t a pass through due to the bullet. My younger son wanted to hunt elk this year with that rifle so I switched to 130 grain terminal ascent for a tougher bullet and more penetration. This year my older son shot a Mulie at approximately 100-120 yards. It was a downhill shot and he hit it high in the chest cavity and took out a lung with minor damage to the other lung, no exit. Then he shot it again as it took off and hit it in the rear quarter and broke the femur, the bullet stopped after hitting the bone without exiting the rear quarter. I was pretty surprised by the lack of penetration with this bullet, especially after seeing all the posts in the 6.5 Creedmoor/260 for Deer, Elk, and whatever thread where people are getting pass throughs at longer ranges and with non bonded bullets.
For those of you that shoot. 6.5 Creedmoor, does this lack of penetration surprise you? I’d like to hear others experience with terminal ascent in this cartridge, wondering if this was a fluke or not unusual. TA has been great in my 308 on deer and elk, but I’m not confident at all about using this ammo in 6.5 cm for elk anymore. I’m thinking I’ll switch to a mono metal bullet with the potential to use it on elk.
View attachment 630771

Bliner

Been shooting mine for 3 years after stepping down from my 300wm due to watching my brother take elk, muleys, and whitetail with single shot kills out to 350yds while I doubted it.

After caving in iv taken 3 bucks, 1 elk, two does, and an antelope. All single shots with factory143g ELDX. Animals never went further than 20yds. Pass throughs on all except the elk which it crushed everything in the cavity busted opposite shoulder and found mushroomed in opposite hide.

I wouldn’t hesitate to put a well placed shot on an elk at 400-450 yds all day long. Watched a friend take a massive 6x6 two weeks ago here in Montana at 267yds and it never took a step. Bullet through and through.

If you are worried about penetration the 127g Barnes LRX is one to consider.

Note: last two shot kills iv seen on elk were 300wm which I love. But undeniably placement and good bullet is everything.

-Andrew

 

[Poe]

A bonded, wide opening at high impact velocity bullet with high weight retention, has a lot of frontal area and creates a lot of drag through the animal. Despite internet lore nonsense- this often reduces penetration. So no, it isn’t surprising, though shoot more of them and you will get exits.





If you have read the 6.5 for killing thread, there’s a common theme- heavy for caliber, tipped match bullets. Switching to a mono will only cause slower deaths, longer runs, and more head scratching in general.

I would highly suggest reading these in their entirety.

Why Match/Target Bullets For Hunting

This is going to be a barrage of questions. It will help to view me as a skeptic relative to the matter at hand. I am going to do some load development for my new 6mm Creed. I live in the southeast where shots are rarely taken at more than 100 yards. But, I fancy that I will take a trip out...

rokslide.com

.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

DON'T HAVE TIME TO READ 176 PAGES? HERE'S THE CHEAT SHEET. “Bullets matter more than headstamps.” “Spent primers offer the supreme tutorial”. I’ve read it here and elsewhere online. It got my attention. I started digging and asking questions and listened. The 77gr TMK delivered by a .223...

rokslide.com

If you want good terminal performanc that tends to exit on deer and broadside elk, the Berger 130gr OTM AR is very solid.

Sorry to bug you but I seem to be having issues with the search. I found the kill threads for the .223 and the 6mm’s but I have read through them and I can’t seem to find the 6.5 kill thread. Any chance you could share a link to it please

 

[hereinaz]

El Pollo posted it above.

6.5 Creedmoor/260 for Deer, Elk, and whatever else.....

Are any of the cup and core traditional deer factory ammo worth a dang in 6.5 cm? Look to set up a new rifle, something 0-300 that's a little bit more cost effective than eldm. The one deer I shoot with bondstrikes barely left any blood. American whitetail? Fusion? I suppose if I've had success...

rokslide.com

 

[Poe]

El Pollo posted it above.

6.5 Creedmoor/260 for Deer, Elk, and whatever else.....

Are any of the cup and core traditional deer factory ammo worth a dang in 6.5 cm? Look to set up a new rifle, something 0-300 that's a little bit more cost effective than eldm. The one deer I shoot with bondstrikes barely left any blood. American whitetail? Fusion? I suppose if I've had success...

rokslide.com

Thank you