6.5 Creedmoor Penetration

[jimh406]

How can you deny the lethality of the the target bullets?
When there are litterly hundreds if not thousands of post on here saying they work effectively?

What do you do if the range exceeds the min opening velocity of your hunting bullet?

Let me guess, thats to far to even be considered hunting?

I can't confirm or deny something that I haven't used or seen. It's the internet ... you can find anything that agrees with your thoughts.

You are guessing again. I leave it to the game departments to define hunting and legal methods. I don't personally shoot so far that my bullets don't reliably expand, so that seems like a problem for you and people like you to solve ... or get closer.

 

[BRTreedogs]

I can't confirm or deny something that I haven't used or seen. It's the internet ... you can find anything that agrees with your thoughts.

You are guessing again. I leave it to the game departments to define hunting and legal methods. I don't personally shoot so far that my bullets don't reliably expand, so that seems like a problem for you and people like you to solve ... or get closer.

How could you ever confirm it if you are not willing to try them?

So you are not willing to try them and confirm them, but you are willing to say only use a bullet marketed for hunting.

So if they suddenly marketed them for hunting you would be willing to try them?

Its clear you a firmly of the old school mindset and not willing to let anything new in.

Apparently that works for you.

I'm out, no sense talking to a brick wall.

 

[jimh406]

How could you ever confirm it if you are not willing to try them?

Why do you need me to confirm or deny? My bullets work, you say yours do, isn't that good enough?

 

[roosiebull]

Mind reading of their marketing groups aside ... use what you want, and I'll stick with my hunting bullets for my uses. Again, in a slightly different way ... there isn't a perfect bullet for all scenarios.

Even if target bullets outperform “hunting” bullets? Wouldn’t you just want the best bullet for the job regardless of how it’s marketed?

Have you read this thread that explains match bullets for hunting? It’s a very good read

Why Match/Target Bullets For Hunting

This is going to be a barrage of questions. It will help to view me as a skeptic relative to the matter at hand. I am going to do some load development for my new 6mm Creed. I live in the southeast where shots are rarely taken at more than 100 yards. But, I fancy that I will take a trip out...

rokslide.com

 

[BRTreedogs]

Why do you need me to confirm or deny? My bullets work, you say yours do, isn't that good enough?

Because you are implying that target bullets don't work earlier. They are only for targets.

I would respect it if you only said the bullets you know to work work.

But when you imply bullets don't work, that you have no actual experience with. How is that creditable in any way? Just cause you read the box?

 

[jimh406]

Even if target bullets outperform “hunting” bullets? Wouldn’t you just want the best bullet for the job regardless of how it’s marketed?

I don't believe that I have a bullet issue since I'm already getting one shot quick kills. Why would I change?

Btw, I've read most of the popular threads, but that doesn't mean they apply to me.

 

[Unckebob]

I think they just don't want the liability of suggesting them for hunting. But they clearly work very well for alot of people for alot of scenarios.

And your statement leads us to believe you think they are only for target.

During a podcast, the Hornady rep was asked about using Hornady's target bullets for hunting.

While he conceded that they could work for hunting, he said Hornady would not recommend their target bullets for hunting. Why?

He said their target bullets had inconsistent expansion and were unreliable on game. Consequently, he said Hornady would not recommend target bullets for hunting because they did not want unhappy customers.

Yes. Target bullets can kill game animals.
Yes. A .223 has probably killed a grizzly bear.

It doesn't mean they are the best choice for either situation.

 

[BRTreedogs]

I don't believe that I have a bullet issue since I'm already getting one shot quick kills. Why would I change?

Btw, I've read most of the popular threads, but that doesn't mean they apply to me.

Again I'm saying just don't say stuff about the bullets you haven't used.

Im not saying switch, or this or that is best.

You gave advice not to use target bullets for hunting. But you in fact have zero creditable experience or data. So how could you possibly know not to?

Saying what works for you is great.

Saying things that don't work, when you have no idea is not.

 

[jimh406]

Because you are implying that target bullets don't work earlier. They are only for targets.

Of course, I didn't type the word "only". That's all you.

I also didn't say hunting bullets could "only" be used for hunting.

 

[Formidilosus]

During a podcast, the Hornady rep was asked about using Hornady's target bullets for hunting.

While he conceded that they could work for hunting, he said Hornady would not recommend their target bullets for hunting. Why?

He said their target bullets had inconsistent expansion and were unreliable on game.

You might listen again.

 

[roosiebull]

Funny thread … OP says does the penetration surprise you. Several say he needs less penetration … huh?

In any case, penetration is a function of bullet design all else being equal. There are several bullets known for penetration including the Nosler Partition and most solid copper offerings.

Likewise, there are target bullets made to shoot targets. I know Rocksliders know more than the manufacturers, of course. It probably won’t be long before those companies change their marketing materials to get rid of their bullets designed for hunting.

Seriously though, I don’t think there is a perfect bullet. Hopefully, everyone finds ones that work for them to prevent losing wounded game. I’d rather have a bit too much of penetration in case I hit bone, but I’ve only used bullets that fully penetrated lungs or hearty and also destroyed what they hit. That’s good enough for me.

I’m not saying you should change, but this reply makes me think you should read the thread I linked, not to change what you are doing, but to understand bullets in general better. Why not educate yourself?

I linked that thread because there is a lot of good bullet information in it, and showcases why “some” match bullets make great hunting bullets, it’s just good information to understand bullets and all of their attributes

Maximizing the potential of your cartridge, and allowing people to shoot lower recoiling cartridges and causing better wounds (killing faster) than much more powerful cartridges with “hunting” bullets

It’s just good info, no reason to worry about disproving misconceptions you may have… I love disproving misconceptions I have.

 

[jimh406]

Why not educate yourself?

Why think that anyone that reads the same thing as you will come to the same conclusion?

Seriously, own your decision and have confidence in it. You don't need to convince anyone else your decision is ok, and they are "wrong".

 

[Wyo_hntr]

During a podcast, the Hornady rep was asked about using Hornady's target bullets for hunting.

While he conceded that they could work for hunting, he said Hornady would not recommend their target bullets for hunting. Why?

He said their target bullets had inconsistent expansion and were unreliable on game. Consequently, he said Hornady would not recommend target bullets for hunting because they did not want unhappy customers.

Yes. Target bullets can kill game animals.
Yes. A .223 has probably killed a grizzly bear.

It doesn't mean they are the best choice for either situation.

Hornady knows exactly what the eldm bullets do in tissue. They describe it as excellent terminal performance...the gel tests provided by hornady are informative.

147 gr ELD® MATCH TAP PRECISION® - Hornady Law Enforcement

...

www.hornadyle.com

 

[Mike Islander]

During a podcast, the Hornady rep was asked about using Hornady's target bullets for hunting.

While he conceded that they could work for hunting, he said Hornady would not recommend their target bullets for hunting. Why?

He said their target bullets had inconsistent expansion and were unreliable on game. Consequently, he said Hornady would not recommend target bullets for hunting because they did not want unhappy customers.

Yes. Target bullets can kill game animals.
Yes. A .223 has probably killed a grizzly bear.

It doesn't mean they are the best choice for either situation.

Don't think that's exactly what he said, but even so, who cares? And how can you say they aren't awesome for killing animals with a straight face...unless you literally don't read any of the threads here demonstrating exactly that they absolutely are great for killing animals?

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Of all their 6.5 bullets, hornady recommends the 147 eldm for tactical use.

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static.hornady.media

 

[Mike D Texas]

Ballistic Coefficient is pier reviewed scientific fact.
Not Fudd Lore Bull shit.

What I'm saying is it you are comparing two different bullet weights in a calculator to see when they hit 2000 fps and you are not accounting for different BC then you are putting bullshit into the calculator.
Then spewing bs on the internet.

Heavy for caliber bullets with a better BC will always, every single time retain velocity longer.

What you said earlier about the heavier bullets loosing out sooner is absolutely wrong

Wrong wrong wrong, you haven't accounting for something .

W T actual F are you talking about?

Where did I EVER say BC wasn’t fact? I will say that may manufacturers inflate BC numbers based on actual field verified drops.

You have no clue what you are talking about regarding what info I put in this ballistic calculators. The Hornady DOF chart that I posted was a 147 ELDM selected from their app using 2685fps as a starting point and at sea level. If you knew WTF you were talking about you would see that the pressure and humidity are standard values used for sea level.

The other one I put in was my buddies verified drops with a 6.5 Creed with 143 ELDX starting at 2730fps and 1260 ASL.


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[Mike D Texas]

You posted a screen shot of a drop chart.
Whatever you posted hit 2000 fps at about 525 yards.
My 147 chart shows the 147 hitting 2000 fps at 625 yards.

What starting velocity and what elevation?


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[BRTreedogs]

W T actual F are you talking about?

Where did I EVER say BC wasn’t fact? I will say that may manufacturers inflate BC numbers based on actual field verified drops.

You have no clue what you are talking about regarding what info I put in this ballistic calculators. The Hornady DOF chart that I posted was a 147 ELDM selected from their app using 2685fps as a starting point and at sea level. If you knew WTF you were talking about you would see that the pressure and humidity are standard values used for sea level.

The other one I put in was my buddies verified drops with a 6.5 Creed with 143 ELDX starting at 2730fps and 1260 ASL.


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The chart i posted is a verified chart on an actual rifle that i own in my possession, with a large lot number of ammo i own in my possession. That i have fired from the rifle and verified first hand.

That has killed animals in the field.

Its not some theoretical bullshit, from my uncles best friends , little brothers, cousin.

Show us a comparison of 2 drop charts showing how the heavier bullets Peter put sooner.

That's what you said the problem with the heavier ones is, they run out of steam sooner.

Show us.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

Passthroughs are over rated. Berger or eldm behind the shoulder and its a quick death.

 

[BRTreedogs]

At least clue us in on this famed bullet that is in the 130 class and retains 2000 fps impact velocity further the the 147