Wilderness and mental health

[Billinsd]

This has changed my life for the better, more than anything by far!!!!
Mindfulness-based stress reduction (MBSR) is an eight-week evidence-based program that offers secular, intensive mindfulness training to assist people with stress, anxiety, depression and pain.[1][2][3] Developed at the University of Massachusetts Medical Center in the 1970s by Professor Jon Kabat-Zinn, MBSR uses a combination of mindfulness meditation, body awareness, yoga and exploration of patterns of behaviour, thinking, feeling and action.[1][4] Mindfulness can be understood as the non-judgmental acceptance and investigation of present experience, including body sensations, internal mental states, thoughts, emotions, impulses and memories, in order to reduce suffering or distress and to increase well-being.[1][5] Mindfulness meditation is a method by which attention skills are cultivated, emotional regulation is developed, and rumination and worry are significantly reduced.[5][6][1] During the past decades, mindfulness meditation has been the subject of more controlled clinical research, which suggests its potential beneficial effects for mental health,[7][8][9] as well as physical health.[10][11][12] While MBSR has its roots in spiritual teachings, the program itself is secular.[1] The MBSR program is described in detail in Kabat-Zinn's 1990 book Full Catastrophe Living.[1]

 

[Britt Merrick]

Did 7 years in the Army as a Tanker, during which every issue that I didn’t realize I had, came out tenfold. My self destructive/violent irrational behavior coupled with my propensity for inducing risk, turned me a little wild.
I got out and became a federal Correctional Officer to help fill the hole the Army left. Being a CO this last year and change turned me way worse, hard to calm down sometimes, taking a vengeful approach to people when they would slander or disrespect me, Didnt leave the prison so to speak.
The only thing that has been my therapy is getting all kitted up in my mountain gear and rolling out to somewhere remote. It almost brings me this sort of physical state where I’m in a trance of pure ‘living’. Hard to describe honestly. For me it gives me that gearing up for a mission feeling, that I miss the most from the Army, but the mental clarity and high of being alive in nature.

I just quit my federal job and decided to pursue what brings me that feeling of mental health. I’m going to guide school and hopefully will be hired next year for a season out west of helping as a camp hand with an outfitter. I started to naturally dose with low amounts THC too, seems to literally be perfect for me. Wilderness and a little bit of THC.
I wonder if anyone has any experience with micro-dosing Psilocybin or ‘shrooms’ and how that has helped or didnt for depression.

I feel more sane than I ever have. I wonder if Native American medicine practices would benefit. I’m extremely curious to any native tribes practices, if anyone has any information on that, I’d soak it up.

The wilds truly are therapeutic medicine. I feel like the more time you spend in the wild the closer you get to true consciousness.

Oh brother, I feel you! I had a seven year old daughter who was dying of cancer and the only thing that seemed to tangibly help on a regular basis was being out in the wilderness. Still saves me every time.

 

[Wags]

Oh brother, I feel you! I had a seven year old daughter who was dying of cancer and the only thing that seemed to tangibly help on a regular basis was being out in the wilderness. Still saves me every time.

Im so sorry to hear that. I seriously couldn’t imagine. After all I’ve seen & done in combat and my career NOTHING could ever compare to that. I’m glad you found a way to find peace.

 

[*zap*]

Good luck. Free your mind and your ass will follow..maybe federal warden/ranger?

 

[SonnyDay]

Oh brother, I feel you! I had a seven year old daughter who was dying of cancer and the only thing that seemed to tangibly help on a regular basis was being out in the wilderness. Still saves me every time.

Sorry to hear that. The brotherhood of those who've lost children is a club no sane person ever voluntarily enlists in... and can make that sanity go away quickly. The woods are my church and my place of peace.

@BeastOfTheTrees I think you are on the right path. Find out what works. Guiding may be your thing. It may not. But good on you for finding out. I can't offer much in terms of microdoses of psylocybin. Had a few macrodoses back in the day but it wasn't medicine---just fun. I know there's finally been some real research on treating depression with "shrooms" in the past decade, and there are some promising results. One thing I can say for sure is there's a lot more we don't understand about the human mind than we do understand. Small doses of THC are almost certainly healthier for you than small doses of alcohol. Many of us mix both, of course. And maybe that's OK too. Be generous to yourself and others as you figure this out and it will probably lead to better days. Good luck.

 

[Claypa]

Always spent time outdoors but somewhat new to spending a lot of time hunting. A good way to describe it for me is that it feels like home.

 

[BeastOfTheTrees]

Oh brother, I feel you! I had a seven year old daughter who was dying of cancer and the only thing that seemed to tangibly help on a regular basis was being out in the wilderness. Still saves me every time.

Hats off to you bro, straight up

 

[BeastOfTheTrees]

I legit love this community

 

[Dave S]

I believes the wilderness is much more good to our health, It a good place to meditate .

 

[JRMiller]

Might try Vitamin D or light therapy.
Almost half of americans are deficient in D.
I struggle with Bipolar 2, and i have to take it regularly or be out in the sun regularly or eventually symptoms start to sneak in. You normally obtain vitamin d through exposure to the sun.
Thats why statistics shows people out more often are generally happier people.
I thought it was BS when i first heard it, but its true. Must have either the sun or the vitamin.

 

[Beendare]

Beast,
best of luck with your positive plan of action.

.

 

[Deadfall]

Natives used the drugs to reach a higher level of spirituality. Drugs by themselves are not the answer. Getting in touch with the spirit side of things will help Tremendously. Wether meditation, hallucinogens. Yes being in the woods is hugely beneficial. Great place to work on insides.

As for guiding. That is a double edged sword. Might find it hard to get along with the crew. Civilian folk operate differently. Sometimes the guests will be very uh…overwhelming in heir neediness.

all in all guiding was good for me for the last 15 years. Which I started doing after burning my life down sorta speak

 

[TheGDog]

A THC gummy would probably be a wise choice for you out there. Since @10mg THC with those you can dose precisely. For me 10mg isn't much effect since my weight is high now at 230Lbs. 20mg is a good amount.

What most other people can't wrap their head around.... because they can't truly know what it's like having depression... is how YOU being on something like THC makes YOU and your "normal" be more like *their* version of "normal". Or at least, makes you a version of "normal" that they are all much better able to tolerate.

Since for myself THC has to be something I can only use AFTER my cerebral work is done, it's on an as-needed basis after responsibilities are handled. Because I do notice how it can lead me into procrastinating. And since my job requires a lot of abstract thinking (software) I need to be straight, or even caffeinated when doing that.

A note about caffeine. If you have depression, then caffeine is the more evil substance for you. That becomes one of those substances that you actually should become more judicious about it's use. Seek to use it as sparingly as you can. Real Talk here.

As an example... try paying attention to this litmus test and see if it also applies to you... notice how fluidly... or not-fluidly your speech comes out when speaking out-loud to others. I say this because when I'm using a med like an SSRI from an Rx to combat the problem... I've noticed that I speak much more fluently and cohesively, without all the pausing and re-thinking internally what I want to say.

For in a natural state... my brain is doing things like thinking about all the possible mis-interpretations which may happen in the other person listening if you choose the wrong word choice in the sentence. As a result... I'll find that I can succumb to having a choppy and not smooth oral delivery of my sentences when speaking, because I'm such a fast thinker... my brain is working out several permutations of how the sentence might be better stated such that the listener then understands the exact meaning I was trying to convey. And the choppy pauses come because overall I trend towards speaking at a fairly fast pace overall. Since for work I'm often having to convey massive amounts of detail to another person about highly detailed and abstract topics and concepts, and there's only soo much time in each day, ya know?


For me in my younger years... the things that helped were often extreme sports. BMX/MTB/DirtBikes/StreetBikes. Also pushing it HARD with Weight-Training and Cardio helped a lot during the regular work week. Ritght now in the 50+ age bracket, prior injuries from those sports are rearing their ugly head and disallowing me from working out decently. I plan to take the plunge in getting lower back disc problems fixed probably next year, so it all goes towards my yearly out-of-pocket max.

And after a few decades, what I came to realize is... the reason WHY I sort of found my way into such sports is because with the adrenalin-rush and danger these pursuits presented... when you are participating in them... you are soo uber-focused and in-the-moment, that being in this state, in-the-moment and pushing yourself to overcome your fears... causes you to displace from the forefront of your mind all those various other day-to-day things you end up thinking about that frustrate you or worry you or worsen the depression.

I also have what's called Generalized Anxiety Disorder as well. Where a person will keep on pre-occupying their minds with thoughts and worries such as meeting their responsibilities, and you tend to worry about the problem ahead of time and think about the issue until you feel you've come up with a plan for all possible outcomes. Then it seems like once you've hashed out what are all the possible outcomes which can happen for the action choice that's being considered... you feel a lot more comfortable about proceeding forward. Whereas lotta folks are very blahzay and have no problem with the thought of "just wingin it".

For myself personally? The way I explain it to others is that I say my processor (brain) runs at a much faster speed than most of the population. And... with my chosen profession this whole thing of thinking all the time and pondering all the possible outcomes lends itself to that line of work and coding and debugging. But... these things DO NOT lend themselves well in social gatherings.

Another reason why going into the wild helps you is because.. just like I said about the extreme sports... when you go into nature... what do you do right? You FOCUS! It starts with you going over everything again and double checking that you've got what you wanted to bring in your pack. That your weapon is in the case and you've brought the kind of ammo you need. Picking your clothing gear. Having some extra pieces to address weather variability. What to bring for food, how much water? Meh... do I need this with me? etc etc. All those things cause you to Focus... and it's that Focus which helps to displace those other thoughts and feelings you might be prone to slipping back into. Not to mention that whole thing of being solo and knowing you've got to be on point just in case some critter tries to act up like he's got somethin' in 'em. That definitely does make it different then when you're not solo.

 

[Cowbell]

Nature is definitely soothing to the soul but everything in this world will eventually disappoint or leave us wanting. Mental clarity, calm and inner peace can be found in Jesus Christ.

This is dead on

 

[Wrench]

One of my neighbors has a child who had some mental and physical troubles from lyme disease. Their family is very much into natural foods, juicing and shrooms came up.

My career path won't allow that nor does it ring as a solution to anything in my life, but it certainly does for them and they live a great life and I'm lucky to have them as neighbors.

As for guiding, imagine every personality you've ever met, then mix in unrealistic expectations and multiply that by the cost.....there's gonna be more than a few you will want to throw off a cliff.....and some you'd want in your corner.

 

[AroaniaPass]

I should note that a family member who was briefly depressed (better now) had the chance to go on a long wilderness trip. That individual came home early because being alone in the wild got lonely after a while and wasn't fun any more.

If you're clinically depressed (in as much as that is an accurate term) you have deep seated issues that a brief brake in the woods won't solve. Although I'd argue a regular respite might just allow you to cope until a longer term solution is reached. I used to do regular day hikes while working a really stressful job. Having something to look forward to helped me face life better until the issues were resolved.

Edit – David I'd be interested in hearing more details on what you think. Sometimes when I'm down I need alone time. Other times I really need people (even though I may not realize it). I think it depends on the source of the problem to begin with.

 

[BeastOfTheTrees]

Natives used the drugs to reach a higher level of spirituality. Drugs by themselves are not the answer. Getting in touch with the spirit side of things will help Tremendously. Wether meditation, hallucinogens. Yes being in the woods is hugely beneficial. Great place to work on insides.

As for guiding. That is a double edged sword. Might find it hard to get along with the crew. Civilian folk operate differently. Sometimes the guests will be very uh…overwhelming in heir neediness.

all in all guiding was good for me for the last 15 years. Which I started doing after burning my life down sorta speak

The native ways I’m interested in. I feel like all my life plans did exactly that in one way shape or form, burned down. My little family, wife, 2 kids, and one on the way are extremely strong. My path in life so to speak has just been a mudslide. Army taught me the way to get shit done that I wanted and how to be ready for about anything, but that toxicity made me leave for my families’ health. Then the prison…. Well let’s just say even the Department of Justice is swinging a certain way now. The way my head works, I went at thugs in ways that to me I don’t even question if it’s acceptable. To management, it’s abominable.

Only passion that I have is the mountains. I enjoyed leading teams of soldiers and doing hard things. Leadership I understand. Hopefully that aspect can bolster me in guiding.

 

[BeastOfTheTrees]

A THC gummy would probably be a wise choice for you out there. Since @10mg THC with those you can dose precisely. For me 10mg isn't much effect since my weight is high now at 230Lbs. 20mg is a good amount.

What most other people can't wrap their head around.... because they can't truly know what it's like having depression... is how YOU being on something like THC makes YOU and your "normal" be more like *their* version of "normal". Or at least, makes you a version of "normal" that they are all much better able to tolerate.

Since for myself THC has to be something I can only use AFTER my cerebral work is done, it's on an as-needed basis after responsibilities are handled. Because I do notice how it can lead me into procrastinating. And since my job requires a lot of abstract thinking (software) I need to be straight, or even caffeinated when doing that.

A note about caffeine. If you have depression, then caffeine is the more evil substance for you. That becomes one of those substances that you actually should become more judicious about it's use. Seek to use it as sparingly as you can. Real Talk here.

As an example... try paying attention to this litmus test and see if it also applies to you... notice how fluidly... or not-fluidly your speech comes out when speaking out-loud to others. I say this because when I'm using a med like an SSRI from an Rx to combat the problem... I've noticed that I speak much more fluently and cohesively, without all the pausing and re-thinking internally what I want to say.

For in a natural state... my brain is doing things like thinking about all the possible mis-interpretations which may happen in the other person listening if you choose the wrong word choice in the sentence. As a result... I'll find that I can succumb to having a choppy and not smooth oral delivery of my sentences when speaking, because I'm such a fast thinker... my brain is working out several permutations of how the sentence might be better stated such that the listener then understands the exact meaning I was trying to convey. And the choppy pauses come because overall I trend towards speaking at a fairly fast pace overall. Since for work I'm often having to convey massive amounts of detail to another person about highly detailed and abstract topics and concepts, and there's only soo much time in each day, ya know?


For me in my younger years... the things that helped were often extreme sports. BMX/MTB/DirtBikes/StreetBikes. Also pushing it HARD with Weight-Training and Cardio helped a lot during the regular work week. Ritght now in the 50+ age bracket, prior injuries from those sports are rearing their ugly head and disallowing me from working out decently. I plan to take the plunge in getting lower back disc problems fixed probably next year, so it all goes towards my yearly out-of-pocket max.

And after a few decades, what I came to realize is... the reason WHY I sort of found my way into such sports is because with the adrenalin-rush and danger these pursuits presented... when you are participating in them... you are soo uber-focused and in-the-moment, that being in this state, in-the-moment and pushing yourself to overcome your fears... causes you to displace from the forefront of your mind all those various other day-to-day things you end up thinking about that frustrate you or worry you or worsen the depression.

I also have what's called Generalized Anxiety Disorder as well. Where a person will keep on pre-occupying their minds with thoughts and worries such as meeting their responsibilities, and you tend to worry about the problem ahead of time and think about the issue until you feel you've come up with a plan for all possible outcomes. Then it seems like once you've hashed out what are all the possible outcomes which can happen for the action choice that's being considered... you feel a lot more comfortable about proceeding forward. Whereas lotta folks are very blahzay and have no problem with the thought of "just wingin it".

For myself personally? The way I explain it to others is that I say my processor (brain) runs at a much faster speed than most of the population. And... with my chosen profession this whole thing of thinking all the time and pondering all the possible outcomes lends itself to that line of work and coding and debugging. But... these things DO NOT lend themselves well in social gatherings.

Another reason why going into the wild helps you is because.. just like I said about the extreme sports... when you go into nature... what do you do right? You FOCUS! It starts with you going over everything again and double checking that you've got what you wanted to bring in your pack. That your weapon is in the case and you've brought the kind of ammo you need. Picking your clothing gear. Having some extra pieces to address weather variability. What to bring for food, how much water? Meh... do I need this with me? etc etc. All those things cause you to Focus... and it's that Focus which helps to displace those other thoughts and feelings you might be prone to slipping back into. Not to mention that whole thing of being solo and knowing you've got to be on point just in case some critter tries to act up like he's got somethin' in 'em. That definitely does make it different then when you're not solo.

The caffeine thing speaks volumes. I was hitting caffeine hard this whole last year and that makes sense. I more or less did it to be at the low ready even more so at any time because of the thugs surrounding me all day. It does make sense though.
The just winging it, is how my brain works. We had a saying “**** it, we’re doing it live” that’s how I work. Mental state is almost always full send. I don’t care about much in the world at all. Literally it’s like a frontier mindset. I love and protect my clan, and stay close to nature and everything related to wilderness. All other things in the world, I legit do not care about at all. That does cause issue from time to time lol.

 

[Bigcat_hunter]

I suggest Jesus over psychedelics if your looking for peace.

 

[WRM]

Just really no replacement for the out of doors, IMO. And, there definitely is something to the native spirituality. Their connection to the land/nature just makes it a circle of life sort of deal.

Best of luck man. This is a crappy world in a lot of ways and getting crappier all the time. I understand your pain and hope your journey finds a path that brings you peace.