How to end NR Wyoming wilderness ban?

[CrescentB]

From a legal perspective, the way I see it, the state does not have authority to regulate federal lands. If the state issues a nonresident a tag, the state cannot dictate he/she hunt any federal land area with a guide. But, as I'm sure we are all aware, many states do what they want, despite their legal limitations. If they enforce this, sooner or later someone will fight it, and very likely win.

What changes this dynamic is that state does own (manage) the wildlife, so it is the States right to legislate and enforce those laws within its borders.

 

[Dos Perros]

Not true. it's enforced quite heavily. People might get away with it until they don't.

What's your threshold for quite heavily? They only write about 1 ticket a year and the vast majority are settled for $150.

 

[CrescentB]

I would think there could be tax ramifications that could be levied against the state for access banning. Force the outfits to make up the difference.....not that it matters those are bottomless pockets.

I don't care for much of the outfitter industry, but I saw this with deep experience having both guided for wilderness camps and had family who were in the business as owners,,,the pockets for these organizations are not deep. In most cases for Wyoming outfitters operating on public lands, and certainly for outfitters operating in wilderness areas, after you pay taxes, payroll, contingent / non contingent expenses, overhead, livestock feed, etc,,,you then pay the department of the interior for using the land for commercial activities. NOBODY is banning access. You are allowed to be there from JAN - DEC at your choosing. You just cannot posses a hunting license and actively be engaged in the activity of hunting for your own gain for any species in the duration of your time spent inside a USFS wilderness zone.

 

[CrescentB]

What's your threshold for quite heavily? They only write about 1 ticket a year and the vast majority are settled for $150.

I'll give an example without naming names or areas. a simple internet search can do the rest. 2023 elk season a resident was "accompanying" a NR hunter in a wilderness unit. He was discovered by the Game and Fish and charged with unlawful hunting without a permitted guide. The resident member who possessed a resident elk license at the is going to trial in February for guiding a non resident for pay (coyoting as we call it), while the hunter was fined north of $12K and in violation of the lacy act. Id say that's a lot worse than $150 bucks and damn sure well deserved.

 

[Dos Perros]

I'll give an example without naming names or areas. a simple internet search can do the rest. 2023 elk season a resident was "accompanying" a NR hunter in a wilderness unit. He was discovered by the Game and Fish and charged with unlawful hunting without a permitted guide. The resident member who possessed a resident elk license at the is going to trial in February for guiding a non resident for pay (coyoting as we call it), while the hunter was fined north of $12K and in violation of the lacy act. Id say that's a lot worse than $150 bucks and damn sure well deserved.

That sounds like illegal guiding to me.

The historical record stands for itself though. WY doesn't enforce this rule with much vigor at all.

 

[CrescentB]

I'm kinda surprised there isn't Wyoming residents posting WTS Friendship for a week threads. If you already had a hunt planned in a wilderness area then you could make a little extra dough. Just tell them you're not packing anything out for them.

Illegal. Most people approach that subject with "they gotta catch me first", but those kind of violations follow with the Lacey Act.

 

[CrescentB]

That sounds like illegal guiding to me.

The historical record stands for itself though. WY doesn't enforce this rule with much vigor at all.

It most certainly was illegal guiding, but a fine as well to the NR hunter. That's looked at as requiring due diligence prior to (1) paying for services, and/or (2) obtaining a resident guide.resident guides are not allowed to be paid, compensated, or given gratuities for accompanying no more that 2 NR hunters per year.

 

[Dos Perros]

It most certainly was illegal guiding, but a fine as well to the NR hunter. That's looked at as requiring due diligence prior to (1) paying for services, and/or (2) obtaining a resident guide.resident guides are not allowed to be paid, compensated, or given gratuities for accompanying no more that 2 NR hunters per year.

Yup. One time in a McDonald's drive through in Wyoming a resident cowboy struck up a conversation with us. It was clear he was offering to take us on an illegally outfitted hunt in a unit for which we did not have tags and he had no license. I would expect harsh enforcement for something like this. In retrospect part of me wonders if this was a sting operation. We still talk about ole Randy from time to time.

 

[ClearCreek]

Yup. One time in a McDonald's drive through in Wyoming a resident cowboy struck up a conversation with us. It was clear he was offering to take us on an illegally outfitted hunt in a unit for which we did not have tags and he had no license. I would expect harsh enforcement for something like this. In retrospect part of me wonders if this was a sting operation. We still talk about ole Randy from time to time.

Probably not a sting operation.

In the town where I live in northcentral WY, I have known two or three people over the years that were just "hunting with good friends" on deer and antelope hunts. Oddly, when asked what their "good friends" last name was they did not know.

One of these "guides" got busted because the hunter (who I thnik was clueless) went to the game warden and complained he was not getting the services he was promised. The other guy (guide) died before he got caught.


ClearCreek