What does it take to kill a grizzly?

[atmat]

Why match bullets? See we already have an issue!

Because no one is advertising using FMJ or outdated bullet technology in the 223.

We’re comfortable using the 223 because of improvements in bullets.

 

[Formidilosus]

But I've never experienced this! Do you see the point? We can literally all do this for 5yrs straight and still not get a general consensus.

Have you ever parachuted from a plane and had a parachute fail to open? If not- (because it hasn’t happened to you) does that mean that parachutes don’t fail to open?


“It hasn’t happened to me” is not a logical position in an argument.

 

[medvedyt]

I've never seen a bear go farther than 3 steps when shot with a 375ruger...tracks a few shot with 30 cal and 7mm.

the exact reason i got rid of it never experienced a difference with a 9.3x62 in kill effect, some can object the same can be said with the 338-06 and 35 whelen. use what you like and what you believe in up to the time you cange your faith ...

 

[Luke S]

My plans to hunt a grizzly with a .223 didn't work out and I'm still not loving the .223 AR that I do have. It needs a bit of work before I'll use it an longer range.
I'm currently pretty content with my .308 and 6.5 Grendal. This winter I might work on a .223 project to try for the spring.
I know the Tikka is the easy button for a hunting rifle. The problem is I do a LOT of "hiking" where I would like a rifle but I don't want to lug around a full sized "hunting" rifle. So I toying with the idea of a .223 "Backpacking" rifle. The idea would be something as light as possible in .223. I'd handload low powered rounds for grouse and ptarmigan and have full power 77 g TMKs for opportunistically hunting bears.
Ideas I'm playing with include

• An AR15 pistol in .223
• A really light AR like the UltraUltralight builds.
• A bolt action of some kind...

I really would prefer a bolt action .223 with either a red dot or the SWFA UL 2.5-10 scope on it. I'm thinking a Howa Mini action might be the way to go. Probably a MYOG stock, aftermarket bottom metal and an Timney trigger. If that solves all the issues with Howas it might be the way forward. Again this would not be my main hunting rifle, it would have too many compromises in favor of light weight to be a long range gun. But something that could kill a grouse at 20 feet or a summer black bear at 200 yards and in would get toted around a lot more than my other rifles.

 

[Big_wals]

My plans to hunt a grizzly with a .223 didn't work out and I'm still not loving the .223 AR that I do have. It needs a bit of work before I'll use it an longer range.
I'm currently pretty content with my .308 and 6.5 Grendal. This winter I might work on a .223 project to try for the spring.
I know the Tikka is the easy button for a hunting rifle. The problem is I do a LOT of "hiking" where I would like a rifle but I don't want to lug around a full sized "hunting" rifle. So I toying with the idea of a .223 "Backpacking" rifle. The idea would be something as light as possible in .223. I'd handload low powered rounds for grouse and ptarmigan and have full power 77 g TMKs for opportunistically hunting bears.
Ideas I'm playing with include

• An AR15 pistol in .223
• A really light AR like the UltraUltralight builds.
• A bolt action of some kind...

I really would prefer a bolt action .223 with either a red dot or the SWFA UL 2.5-10 scope on it. I'm thinking a Howa Mini action might be the way to go. Probably a MYOG stock, aftermarket bottom metal and an Timney trigger. If that solves all the issues with Howas it might be the way forward. Again this would not be my main hunting rifle, it would have too many compromises in favor of light weight to be a long range gun. But something that could kill a grouse at 20 feet or a summer black bear at 200 yards and in would get toted around a lot more than my other rifles.

You should check out @Thegman ultralight ultralight rifle thread. Some very cool builds on there.

 

[Luke S]

Yes I've seen Thegman's rifle thread. I just prefer bolt actions that are a bit more "streamlined" for easy carry. Maybe the UL UL rifle would be so light I wouldn't mind the awkward shape but we'll have to see. My wife and I really like our Savage Rascal 22 rifle for small game. Its so easy to carry we almost always have it with us now. The AR pistol is a step up in weight and bulk and the .308 is a real step up. You don't want to lug it around if you aren't really planning to hunt. A 4 poundish bolt action in 6mm ARC 6.5 Grendal, or .223 would be fantastic for us.

 

[ElPollo]

Yes I've seen Thegman's rifle thread. I just prefer bolt actions that are a bit more "streamlined" for easy carry. Maybe the UL UL rifle would be so light I wouldn't mind the awkward shape but we'll have to see. My wife and I really like our Savage Rascal 22 rifle for small game. Its so easy to carry we almost always have it with us now. The AR pistol is a step up in weight and bulk and the .308 is a real step up. You don't want to lug it around if you aren't really planning to hunt. A 4 poundish bolt action in 6mm ARC 6.5 Grendal, or .223 would be fantastic for us.

I think there would be a really good market for a 223-length, slick action, ultralight bolt gun that takes AR mags. No one has really gotten there yet.

 

[wyosam]

I think there would be a really good market for a 223-length, slick action, ultralight bolt gun that takes AR mags. No one has really gotten there yet.

The AR mags would be a big downside to me for something like that. Takes away from the smooth lines that make something like that nice to carry. Especially if you happen to want to single hand carry it at times.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[North River]

My plans to hunt a grizzly with a .223 didn't work out and I'm still not loving the .223 AR that I do have. It needs a bit of work before I'll use it an longer range.
I'm currently pretty content with my .308 and 6.5 Grendal. This winter I might work on a .223 project to try for the spring.
I know the Tikka is the easy button for a hunting rifle. The problem is I do a LOT of "hiking" where I would like a rifle but I don't want to lug around a full sized "hunting" rifle. So I toying with the idea of a .223 "Backpacking" rifle. The idea would be something as light as possible in .223. I'd handload low powered rounds for grouse and ptarmigan and have full power 77 g TMKs for opportunistically hunting bears.
Ideas I'm playing with include

• An AR15 pistol in .223
• A really light AR like the UltraUltralight builds.
• A bolt action of some kind...

I really would prefer a bolt action .223 with either a red dot or the SWFA UL 2.5-10 scope on it. I'm thinking a Howa Mini action might be the way to go. Probably a MYOG stock, aftermarket bottom metal and an Timney trigger. If that solves all the issues with Howas it might be the way forward. Again this would not be my main hunting rifle, it would have too many compromises in favor of light weight to be a long range gun. But something that could kill a grouse at 20 feet or a summer black bear at 200 yards and in would get toted around a lot more than my other rifles.

this. I’ve been on a search for the same thing. The good old 30-30 m94 or 99 Savage carbine is really close. But tough to switch ammo and to get the precision I want. That’s what started it for me tho. A modern 30-30.

My Grendel AR filled that role for a number of years. But too many malfunctions, and loud loading and unloading…. Right now a RAR carbine in Grendel is filling the position as I have a ton of Grendel ammo to use up.

I have a solo 300 on the way. 9” bbl ‘pistol’ in 300 blackout. Might be a good option. We will see. It will solve the loud charging issue, the gas in the face with a suppressor, and the switching to low power rounds without cycling issue. This is an important one because like Luke S, I often use my rifle for small edible animals and larger ones in the same day. I shot two ptarmigan with the Grendel today….

Probably THE answer is 223 - enough for larger game and cheap bullets. Easy and cheap to make lighter 22LR to 22 hornet level loads for small game. Probably needs to be bolt action for reliability and precision. 500 yard accurate for plinking, 300 yard velocity retention for killing. If it could be suppressed, 5lbs, and under 30 inches… perfect!

 

[BA_Crosho]

Using a gun vs a grizzly is for boys, reel men use their bear hands

 

[Thegman]

this. I’ve been on a search for the same thing. The good old 30-30 m94 or 99 Savage carbine is really close. But tough to switch ammo and to get the precision I want. That’s what started it for me tho. A modern 30-30.

My Grendel AR filled that role for a number of years. But too many malfunctions, and loud loading and unloading…. Right now a RAR carbine in Grendel is filling the position as I have a ton of Grendel ammo to use up.

I have a solo 300 on the way. 9” bbl ‘pistol’ in 300 blackout. Might be a good option. We will see. It will solve the loud charging issue, the gas in the face with a suppressor, and the switching to low power rounds without cycling issue. This is an important one because like Luke S, I often use my rifle for small edible animals and larger ones in the same day. I shot two ptarmigan with the Grendel today….

Probably THE answer is 223 - enough for larger game and cheap bullets. Easy and cheap to make lighter 22LR to 22 hornet level loads for small game. Probably needs to be bolt action for reliability and precision. 500 yard accurate for plinking, 300 yard velocity retention for killing. If it could be suppressed, 5lbs, and under 30 inches… perfect!

I've been loading "grouse loads" for years in 30-06, 308, 300 HAM’R, 300BO and 223. 233 works better than the rest. I'm using Speer 46 grain FP for the 223 at around 22LR velocities.

I think with something like 77TMKs for big game, and light bullets for small game, the 223 is the best option for the lightweight "do all" rifle.

 

[z987k]

I've been loading "grouse loads" for years in 30-06, 308, 300 HAM’R, 300BO and 223. 233 works better than the rest. I'm using Speer 46 grain FP for the 223 at around 22LR velocities.

I think with something like 77TMKs for big game, and light bullets for small game, the 223 is the best option for the lightweight "do all" rifle.

View attachment 773165

I really like this idea for a ptarmagain gun. 40gr 223 loaded subsonic. 22LR subs are about worthless at 75-100y where the later ptarms will spook inside that.

 

[North River]

I've been loading "grouse loads" for years in 30-06, 308, 300 HAM’R, 300BO and 223. 233 works better than the rest. I'm using Speer 46 grain FP for the 223 at around 22LR velocities.

I think with something like 77TMKs for big game, and light bullets for small game, the 223 is the best option for the lightweight "do all" rifle.

View attachment 773165

Yes I think you’re onto it. Your ULUL thread got me to try the Solo upper. Figured I’d give the 300 blackout barrel a try since it’s priced very reasonable. But most likely will end up with a 556 pencil on it. Still, a slim little traditional bolt rifle in 223 may be in the future….

 

[North River]

I really like this idea for a ptarmagain gun. 40gr 223 loaded subsonic. 22LR subs are about worthless at 75-100y where the later ptarms will spook inside that.

The subs would be fun but I think somewhere in the 2000-2500fps range with light bullets is where I would shoot for. Need that flat to 125-150yd ability for small critters while staying below the blow them up threshold. 17hmr style

 

[z987k]

The subs would be fun but I think somewhere in the 2000-2500fps range with light bullets is where I would shoot for. Need that flat to 125-150yd ability for small critters while staying below the blow them up threshold. 17hmr style

Well, I also need to not flush the 100 birds sitting next to them. Subs are necessary, but 22LR subs are just worthless for accuracy at that distance.

 

[North River]

Well, I also need to not flush the 100 birds sitting next to them. Subs are necessary, but 22LR subs are just worthless for accuracy at that distance.

The beauty of handloading, mild to wild at your fingertips…. I’ll be keen to see what you come up with for a load

 

[JDBAK]

I wouldn't go on a guided brown bear hunt with a 223 but I'd be hard pressed to argue a 30-06 or larger bolt gun would be better than an AR and a mag full of 77 TMKs in the "if a bear was charging" scenario.

Charging bear/timed shooting drill

AR15 with Aimpoint: Average 1st shot- 0.64 seconds Average split between shots= 0.16 seconds Average total time- 0.81 seconds Bolt action 308 with Aimpoint: Average 1st shot- 0.82 seconds Average split- 1.14 seconds Average total time- 1.96 seconds AR15 all hits, no malfunctions...

rokslide.com

It’s tough to argue against the damage to tissue per second that can be inflicted by a trained shooter with an AR-15 and 77TMK vs any larger caliber hunting rifle.

There might be some guys who could exceed that level of destruction with the right shotgun and slugs. That takes more training still, but there are some wizards out there with a Beretta 1301.

For a charging bear, likely requiring multiple accurate shots as fast as possible, those like the most lethal tools to me.

 

[HandgunHTR]

Well, I also need to not flush the 100 birds sitting next to them. Subs are necessary, but 22LR subs are just worthless for accuracy at that distance.

Getting good accuracy out of a .22LR at that distance requires the use of the really good target ammo. It is subsonic and will group very well out to 100+ meters.

I use Eley Club or Target, but Wolf Match ammo will work as well. The picture below is a 5-shot group, shot at 100 meters using a TC Contender with a 10" .22 Match barrel, and a Bushnell Elite 2-6X pistol scope, sandbag rest. For scale that is a printout of a full size IHMSA air-gun ram (about 2"x3"). Ammo for that group was Eley Target

 

[Thegman]

Yes I think you’re onto it. Your ULUL thread got me to try the Solo upper. Figured I’d give the 300 blackout barrel a try since it’s priced very reasonable. But most likely will end up with a 556 pencil on it. Still, a slim little traditional bolt rifle in 223 may be in the future….

300 BLK can work really well as a big game/small game gun too.

These bullets might be the best bet for loading 30 Cal small game loads.

30 Caliber (.308) - Rifle Bullets - Metallic Reloading - Graf & Sons

www.grafs.com

I've tried a lot of different bullets/projectiles for 30 cal small game loads. Mostly I've used various roundballs, but their lack of bearing surface makes it harder to build pressure. These are as much bearing surface as you can get for the weight and seem to allow enough pressure to get better powder combustion.

 

[Thegman]

And I don't know about grizzlies, but those grouse loads can kill black bears anyway.

Years ago, when I was 'greenhorn', I ran out of the 4 rounds of ammo in my magazine which I thought would always be plenty of rounds.

My black bear rodeo ended up with a very much alive 6' boar just with his back legs taken out.

I thought:

"Shit, I could hike out, ride home, get more ammo and come back, but that would take about 3 hours.

Hmmm, well, I could cut a branch, lash my big ass "hunting knife" to it and make a spear and kill him with that.

Hey, I have a few grouse loads, maybe that would work? I'm not sure they'll penetrate his skull."

I was using 110 grain FMJs then. One in the back of his head made a neat hole and ended my conundrum. What a dumbass...