The resident short game. Long term consequences?

Rich M said:
Pretty much - if folks aren't allowed to play, they go elsewhere and that removes the money. It is a ripple effect.

If I can only go hunt say once or twice in a lifetime - why would I even think about or try to fund hunt access on a regular basis? Why would I send money if I'm not thinking about them because I've been excluded from the party? The whole idea of pushing folks to send money when they can't play is silly.



How much money do you spend to support say,
  • elk in Minnesota or Pennsylvania?
  • Or moose in VT, NH, Maine?
  • Key Deer?
  • Panthers in FL?
  • The manatees?
If not, why not? They are there, you basically said you need to support them if you love animals.



Hunting has been an industry for a very long time. Fred Bear was part of the industry - that goes back a ways.

I got a book in 1978 and saw antelope, mule deer, peccary, etc. Decided I wanted to hunt mule deer and antelope. Figured I might get a chance "someday". 2017 went and shot my first antelope 39 years after first wanting to go. 2019 first muley hunt and got a nice buck, 160-inch ending that 41 year quest. Still want a buck antelope and was collecting points, now planning to go guided to make sure it can be realized.

The media we have these days and the media heroes have ignited the desire a bit more than an old book or magazine article can. Then they told their followers that they should be hunting EVERY YEAR as opposed to a couple of times in their lifetime. Then they told their followers that we need to increase the hunter numbers as much as possible to stave off extinction. They said to bring em out west. They also said to buy these expensive pants and packs. BTW, this is how you apply for the tags and where you need to buy points. They even told everyone where to go in some instances. WY G comes to mind - meat-eat did that. Funny thing is that the various states have been known to pay these guys to come out and make videos to attract more customers. I mean hunters.

Anyway, like it or not - hunting has always been an industry. The offshoot "conservation" organizations have likewise been around for a long time milking the system as well. They do have mission statements and I'm sure part of those are not to help NR hunters get or keep opportunities in the various states.

LOL! - Someone with a little charisma could make a killing if they started that kind of organization right now - Send money to help fight for NR access and opportunities in western states. $35/year gets you a sticker and membership with monthly updates on the plight of the NR hunting in the western hunts. For an extra $25/yr we will include Alaskan hunting and whitetail hunting. You will be asked to provide ideas and participate in telephone and email campaigns.

I'm involved with this stuff for FL duck hunters - and no, we don't differentiate between R & NR - it's a come one come all kind of thing. Think it's $25/yr and we have events too - youth hunts, vet hunts, flyway conferences, and more. I started it in about 1999 - the voice of Florida waterfowl hunters. Promote participation in the regulatory meetings and push for more public access, etc. Just took some attended a meeting. Couple guys showed up and wanted to reinvent the wheel - told them if they joined, they would get an officer position and the ability to do what they were saying they wanted to do - with the support of the membership. We'll see how that goes. Otherwise, they were just flapping they gums. Time will tell.
Click to expand...
Well, I buy a shit ton of ammo, powder, bullets and fishing supplies. The PR act ensures that some of that money gets spread around. If I lived down there and they had volunteer opportunities, damn right I’d be out there helping. As it sits, I don’t have a pile of money to drunkenly throw at stuff I don’t need at the various banquets. I will however get out at least 4 or 5 days every month and physically bust my ass to plant trees and brush, roll up barbed wire, improve wetlands. How many trees have you planted up here after a fire has tore through?
 
dirtytough said:
Point out in the OP where I said anything about making stuff better for non res hunters. Here is the gist of it. The last paragraph.

"If you are a non res to the western states I would try to get what you can as soon as possible or move. The future isn’t looking bright for non res hunting. If you are a resident of a western state I hope you like company, higher cost of living, and loss of habitat. Because you are bringing it upon yourselves."

Keep trying your best to start a fight/argument/debate about a topic that has nothing to do with this thread. Again you could start your own thread about increasing non res opportunity. Or you can continue to try to threadjack this one.
Click to expand...
Could you point me to the application process for a nr moose hunt in north Dakota?

I can't find it on the website.
 
Hey dirtytough, I was working last summer up in nodak, saw some great bull elk up there, and even some bighorn sheep.

Was wondering what the tag splits are for a non resident that may be looking to apply?

Is it 90-10?
 
BuzzH said:
Tell me how much you do to increase non resident hunting opportunities in the state you live in?
Click to expand...

dirtytough said:
Has absolutely nothing to do with the OP. Always fun watching you side track a thread with irrelevant posts though. If you would like to know what people are doing in the state they live in to increase non res opportunity maybe you should start a thread on it?
Click to expand...

BuzzH said:
This thread is about making things better for nr hunters....don't you live in North Dakota?

I think it appropriate we talk a bit about North Dakota and what nr opportunity looks like there.

You talked about Alaska and Wyoming why nothing about nodak?
Click to expand...

dirtytough said:
Point out in the OP where I said anything about making stuff better for non res hunters. Here is the gist of it. The last paragraph.

"If you are a non res to the western states I would try to get what you can as soon as possible or move. The future isn’t looking bright for non res hunting. If you are a resident of a western state I hope you like company, higher cost of living, and loss of habitat. Because you are bringing it upon yourselves."

Keep trying your best to start a fight/argument/debate about a topic that has nothing to do with this thread. Again you could start your own thread about increasing non res opportunity. Or you can continue to try to threadjack this one.
Click to expand...


BuzzH said:

Duck Hunting | North Dakota Game and Fish

gf.nd.gov gf.nd.gov

My goodness me...would be nice to get a small slice of the first week of duck season as a nr of nodak.
Click to expand...

BuzzH said:
Would be nice if a nr could hunt PLOTS land for pheasants in nodak. Kind of a misnomer...should be PLOTRS...R meaning private land open to resident sportsmen only.

Pheasant Hunting | North Dakota Game and Fish

gf.nd.gov gf.nd.gov
Click to expand...

BuzzH said:
Could you point me to the application process for a nr moose hunt in north Dakota?

I can't find it on the website.
Click to expand...

BuzzH said:
Hey dirtytough, I was working last summer up in nodak, saw some great bull elk up there, and even some bighorn sheep.

Was wondering what the tag splits are for a non resident that may be looking to apply?

Is it 90-10?
Click to expand...

I am shocked you couldn't point out in the OP where I was talking about increased non res opportunity. Shocked I tell you shocked!
 
Customweld said:
Well, I buy a shit ton of ammo, powder, bullets and fishing supplies. The PR act ensures that some of that money gets spread around. If I lived down there and they had volunteer opportunities, damn right I’d be out there helping. As it sits, I don’t have a pile of money to drunkenly throw at stuff I don’t need at the various banquets. I will however get out at least 4 or 5 days every month and physically bust my ass to plant trees and brush, roll up barbed wire, improve wetlands. How many trees have you planted up here after a fire has tore through?
Click to expand...

We're all in different spots - I was getting your attention - not saying you've done anything wrong. Some folks do the work, others finance it, and a bunch just reap the rewards, it has always been that way.

I just attended an annual meeting with a local National Wildlife Refuge we hunt - talking about what happened last year, what they want to see happen this year, and how to get it done.

Thank you for your efforts and being a volunteer who makes a difference! You worry about your fire repair and I'll worry about the hunter opportunity and access at this refuge. Together we'll make things better for others.
 
Residents: Move here if you want to hunt here.

Residents: All these people move here and it’s getting crowded.

Residents in10 years: So many out of staters moved here and they’re trying to shutdown trapping and predator hunting, this will damage the herds! This wasn’t how it was supposed to happen! Rokslide needs to help us! Donate to this cause.

Me:
1A01B469-BBC8-40F2-B525-877D5F83EA02.jpeg
 
BuzzH said:
I'm curious why you didn't include North Dakota in your discussion/rant about how poorly some states treat nr hunters?
Click to expand...
I'll think about answering that. Maybe when other posters answer questions asked of them?

It almost feels like you are trying to post leading questions. Maybe to discredit? Maybe to justify? Maybe you aren't that smart to post leading questions? Maybe its as simple as you are just trolling for entertainment? Who knows. Everyone knows when you enter a thread it will up the entertainment value. I do appreciate that part of your forum contributions.
 
dirtytough said:
I'll think about answering that. Maybe when other posters answer questions asked of them?

It almost feels like you are trying to post leading questions. Maybe to discredit? Maybe to justify? Maybe you aren't that smart to post leading questions? Maybe its as simple as you are just trolling for entertainment? Who knows. Everyone knows when you enter a thread it will up the entertainment value. I do appreciate that part of your forum contributions.
Click to expand...
I think in an honest discussion about how residents want to keep opportunity for themselves, it's curious that you exclude your home state. A state that allows zero non resident opportunity for sheep, moose, and elk. Even goes so far as limiting nr duck hunters to 14 total days, no opportunity at all the first week, won't allow any nr hunting for upland birds on their PLOTS lands.

Did it slip your mind to include those, some of the most favorable resident regulations found anywhere?

I would be all in favor of making hunter management areas and walkin areas resident only in Wyoming.

Would be really great to get a week jump on deer, elk, and pronghorn before non residents.

Would be great if Wyoming kept all 378 moose permits for residents like north Dakota does for their 400 resident only moose permits.

Why would you be upset about another state favoring it's residents when your state does the exact same thing?

Seems strange to not want to talk about the state you live in.
 
BuzzH said:
I think in an honest discussion about how residents want to keep opportunity for themselves, it's curious that you exclude your home state. A state that allows zero non resident opportunity for sheep, moose, and elk. Even goes so far as limiting nr duck hunters to 14 total days, no opportunity at all the first week, won't allow any nr hunting for upland birds on their PLOTS lands.

Did it slip your mind to include those, some of the most favorable resident regulations found anywhere?

I would be all in favor of making hunter management areas and walkin areas resident only in Wyoming.

Would be really great to get a week jump on deer, elk, and pronghorn before non residents.

Would be great if Wyoming kept all 378 moose permits for residents like north Dakota does for their 400 resident only moose permits.

Why would you be upset about another state favoring it's residents when your state does the exact same thing?

Seems strange to not want to talk about the state you live in.
Click to expand...
Keep trying. And maybe actually get your facts straight next post? Kind of like earlier in the thread? Still never showed that this thread is about increasing non res opportunity in the OP. I'm waiting.
 
Billy Goat said:
Then there's Reelfoot.


Where people are literally getting shot.
Click to expand...

Western hunters are decades behind when it comes to hunting drama.

Blind burnings…shooting at “low birds” and hitting other hunters…sinking boats…dog killing.

That’s not even touching the use of imminent domain type pressure to “buy” land wanted by rich guys for their duck clubs…or how certain duck clubs ended up INSIDE closed wildlife refuges…or state funded water control projects…that were built to flood woods for politically connected folks.

I mean…it’s not like the head of game and fish owns a big name club…cough.

What’s old is new again.
 
dirtytough said:
Keep trying. And maybe actually get your facts straight next post? Kind of like earlier in the thread? Still never showed that this thread is about increasing non res opportunity in the OP. I'm waiting.
Click to expand...
Does your state greatly favor its residents hunters?

I'll answer for you since you're afraid to.

Yes, and I have ZERO issue with that.

What I never have understood is why you seem to have such a huge issue with other states doing the same.

Unlike what your state does to favor its residents in regard to sheep and moose, I don't want to see zero NR opportunity for sheep and moose in Wyoming. In fact, I don't want to see them lower than 10%.

That said, I hold no contempt for your state to keep all its sheep and moose permits for residents.

Not sure why you hold contempt for mine when we've given NR hunters thousands of tags for our moose and sheep over the years...and still are giving NR opportunities now, with severely lower numbers of total available permits.

What I am thankful for is ANY nr opportunities a state wants to offer. Even if they don't allow me to hunt ducks the first week of the season, keep me off PLOTS land, or exclude me from their sheep and moose draws, or if a state wants to limit me to 10% (or less) of their tags, or charge me more.

I'm not the type of house guest that would be invited to a friends house for a steak dinner...then complain about the cut and how its cooked. In particular if I ever wanted to be invited back.
 
BuzzH said:
Does your state greatly favor its residents hunters?

I'll answer for you since you're afraid to.

Yes, and I have ZERO issue with that.

What I never have understood is why you seem to have such a huge issue with other states doing the same.

Unlike what your state does to favor its residents in regard to sheep and moose, I don't want to see zero NR opportunity for sheep and moose in Wyoming. In fact, I don't want to see them lower than 10%.

That said, I hold no contempt for your state to keep all its sheep and moose permits for residents.

Not sure why you hold contempt for mine when we've given NR hunters thousands of tags for our moose and sheep over the years...and still are giving NR opportunities now, with severely lower numbers of total available permits.

What I am thankful for is ANY nr opportunities a state wants to offer. Even if they don't allow me to hunt ducks the first week of the season, keep me off PLOTS land, or exclude me from their sheep and moose draws, or if a state wants to limit me to 10% (or less) of their tags, or charge me more.

I'm not the type of house guest that would be invited to a friends house for a steak dinner...then complain about the cut and how its cooked. In particular if I ever wanted to be invited back.
Click to expand...
Usually when someone posts untruths like you posted again in a thread you call them a liar. I won't stoop that low.

Here's my take on buzz's posts so far in this thread.

Zero to do with OP
Zero to do with OP
Zero to do with OP
Zero to do with OP
Zero to do with OP
Incorrect info but actually strengthens what I typed in the OP.
Incorrect info but actually strengthens what I typed in the OP.

I might be off a post or two because I'm not going to look back through and count. He is trying to point out that ND residents have way more opportunity than non res. Which is true. He is wrong about what those are though. That is the entire point of this thread. Non res are losing opportunity all across the west.

I'm just going to quote myself again. Buzz won't read it but most will.
dirtytough said:
If you are a non res to the western states I would try to get what you can as soon as possible or move. The future isn’t looking bright for non res hunting. If you are a resident of a western state I hope you like company, higher cost of living, and loss of habitat. Because you are bringing it upon yourselves.
Click to expand...

PS buzz. You have doubled down on untruths twice in this thread. The first time about the OP wanting increased non res opportunity. The second time about ND. That's bad even for you. I expect better from you.
 
dirtytough said:
Usually when someone posts untruths like you posted again in a thread you call them a liar. I won't stoop that low.

Here's my take on buzz's posts so far in this thread.

Zero to do with OP
Zero to do with OP
Zero to do with OP
Zero to do with OP
Zero to do with OP
Incorrect info but actually strengthens what I typed in the OP.
Incorrect info but actually strengthens what I typed in the OP.

I might be off a post or two because I'm not going to look back through and count. He is trying to point out that ND residents have way more opportunity than non res. Which is true. He is wrong about what those are though. That is the entire point of this thread. Non res are losing opportunity all across the west.

I'm just going to quote myself again. Buzz won't read it but most will.


PS buzz. You have doubled down on untruths twice in this thread. The first time about the OP wanting increased non res opportunity. The second time about ND. That's bad even for you. I expect better from you.
Click to expand...
Point out where I'm wrong about ND...is it that a NR that owns PLOTS land can actually hunt their own land if its enrolled?

You got me.

If you don't want increased NR opportunity then a few things:

1. You have nothing to complain about when a state favors its residents.
2. There is no good reason for any State to offer any more NR opportunity.
3. You must be content with current NR opportunities.

Great, no reason for further discussion...get to hunting, its more productive. I hunt 4-6 states a year, and have for a couple decades. Sad part is, I leave opportunity on the table on states I can hunt yearly, unhunted.

I have no complaints as a NR regarding opportunity in other states.
 
Last edited:
I’m super late to this party but I did want to agree with the OP that my opinion is the decreased nonresident participations will show up in lack of support to these conservation organizations.

I don’t know how much it will impact them but personally I’ve talked to about three people that don’t want to donate to some of the bigger orgs because of what’s happening to non-residents the last year.

HSUS and Sierra Club seem to have unlimited potential for support while ours could be waning

IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
robby denning said:
I’m super late to this party but I did want to agree with the OP that my opinion is the decreased nonresident participations will show up in lack of support to these conservation organizations.

I don’t know how much it will impact them but personally I’ve talked to about three people that don’t want to donate to some of the bigger orgs because of what’s happening to non-residents the last year.

HSUS and Sierra Club seem to have unlimited potential for support while ours could be waning

IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Was attendance down at the Reno Sheep show?

Honest question.
 
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