The resident short game. Long term consequences?

[BuzzH]

You have no idea what other people do to manage predators.
Throwing out a blanket statement lIke that highlights your ignorance.

The fact is there are too many predators, in my opinion that’s poor predator management that’s all I said. Regardless of what has been done, more needs to be done. Right? OK then.

How about mountain lion management? is that the Feds too? Or is the State responsible for the obviously high number of cats?
I’ve seen more cats in the last 5 years than the previous 40 combined.

I witnessed a lion chasing deer last Friday morning, and saw two lions last weekend.

As for my personal contribution towards predator management, which you would know absolutely nothing about, I’ve done more than my share of harvesting predators, wolves, lions, bears and coyotes.

One big problem with trying to control lions is houndsmen.

They want to run lions and find tracks every time they go out, but they rarely kill any.

Would be nice if they allowed folks to trap them.

 

[robby denning]

One big problem with trying to control lions is houndsmen.

They want to run lions and find tracks every time they go out, but they rarely kill any.

Would be nice if they allowed folks to trap them.

Same in Idaho.


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[DWBMontana]

There has been a ton of changes in the western hunting game the last few years. And it is still changing daily/weekly/monthly. One of the biggest and hotly debated topics is license/tag allocation. Res vs non res.

Anyone that is on SM has seen topics from it. The interesting thing to me is I honestly think residents are shooting themselves in the foot. Sure it will be better short term getting more of the licenses. But what about long term? Or do they even care as long as they get their second moose tag?


I used to (emphasis on used to) donate a lot of money to RMEF, WSF, and MDF. I was a member and would spend $500+ at each of the banquets. I would spend money on the different raffles throughout the year. I haven’t went to one of their banquets this year. I haven’t renewed my memberships this year. The states residents that benefit the most from those donations I used to make, are doing their best to give myself and other non res a smaller and smaller percentage every year. I wonder how many other non res are realizing the same? I know 100% it’s not just me.

That money can be used for guide fees, private land access, copter ride into land locked public, a beach vacation, etc.


Look at all the help wanted posted on this forum when it comes to hunting/wildlife issues. One of the most recent was the area 23/26 caribou closure in Alaska. Please send emails, etc. I wonder how many more people would of sent emails if Alaska didn’t have their guide rule for sheep, goat, and grizzlies? Maybe if they would have gotten 1000+ more emails against the closure the decision would have been different? (I’ll come back to the closure in a few) Residents are always wanting non res help when it comes to wildlife issues. I expect that help to dwindle more and more every year.

One of the dumbest things I see residents post is “These are Our animals. You have zero say in how we manage Our wildlife. If you don’t like it Move here.”

To add to that, the harder you make it for a non res and turn it into a res paradise the more and more non res that will move there. Where are they going to move to? Up in the mountains in the summer range or down on the winter range? Of course the winter range. Less and less habitat. More and more people loving the outdoors to death. (Look at SW Colorado for an example)

Then there will be bitching like there already is because guess what? Residents of most of these states can’t afford what the non res can. So it prices the res and their family out. (Recently read a post from Idaho residents bitching about not being able to afford property taxes) How does that look? Do you want your kids to move away after they grow up because they can’t afford to live on their own there? I mean isn’t that why we changed allocations in the first place? So little Johnny can draw a sheep tag in his lifetime? Too bad he won’t be able to afford to live there.

Which leads me to this part. If it was about little Johnny why are the residents that have already gotten the opportunity to hunt what should be an oil species, still applying and trying to draw? Greed. Nothing else. Most hunters will never get to hunt an oil species. Yet there are a few that have already and are still trying to take that opportunity away from someone that hasn’t.

Next thing you know it won’t be non res vs res allocation. It will be res vs res. The closure for caribou in 23/26 wasn’t just for non res of AK. It was for people that don’t live in that area. Huge amounts of federal land closed to some of AK’s residents for caribou hunting.

What about opening up the late season mule deer hunts to wipe out CWD in Wyoming. I wonder if 100 emails from non res for it, will show that there is public support? If they do add the hunts it benefits non res even if they don’t apply there.

Public land. Most hunters don’t care about public they can’t hunt. It would be nothing to sell off some of the more useless land. Keep the mineral rights of course. Or people could make a push to graze more livestock. That actually helps pay for the land. The state running their wildlife on federal land is welfare. So if there were more cows/sheep out there that will help offset the cost.

Corner crossing. Donate donate donate! Make sure you donate to open up more land for the hunter! “We are all in this together!” While at the same time the residents are doing their best to make the non res pie smaller and smaller.


The short game is to get all these adult residents more tags.

What does the long game look like? Less habitat. More non res moving to your state for hunting reasons vying for the same tags you are. Less donations. Less support for wildlife issues. Less support for public land. Not being able to afford to live where you grew up.

I guarantee I’ll get some haha’s. I know most is true though. Look at Idaho, Montana, (just saw a news clip about another hundred acres getting developed by Bozeman today) Colorado, even Wyoming. Wyoming has the least amount of people. But prices there are shooting up on real estate. It’ll be easy for your kids to afford to live there I’m sure.

If you are a non res to the western states I would try to get what you can as soon as possible or move. The future isn’t looking bright for non res hunting. If you are a resident of a western state I hope you like company, higher cost of living, and loss of habitat. Because you are bringing it upon yourselves.

Lit
You guys are lucky I only had my phone

1. You call residents greedy for putting in for tags they have already successfully hunted....yet, you brag about not giving to conservation groups, because you get a smaller piece of the pie. Pot meet kettle.
2. Residents can't afford what a NR can. How many residents of western states you know? hint for you...social economic numbers can be skewed due to a variety of factors, you should did a little deeper before posting such bs. Let me guess , you are judging western states by ski towns. You really want to hear BITCHING, visit Bozo and drive amongst the cali refuges.
3. Most NR can not move to states like MT, Wyo, honestly very few of would have what it takes to live in a rural state where there is no NANNY to take care of your azzz.
4. You obviously have never lived thru any "bubbles" in our economy. With all the govt handouts people have received, inflated prices our obvious, housing included. Every bubble burst, just give it time, but when it does, I will still be living in Montana and living the hell out of it.

 

[HvyBeams]

I can and I do. This thread isn’t because I can’t get a tag for myself, wife, and kid. It’s about a pie that is getting smaller. And instead of everyone’s piece of pie shrinking by the same percent that the entire pie is shrinking, little miss piggy wants the same size piece or more. And in my opinion the unintended consequences are less support and more hunters moving to the states that are a resident hunting paradise.

Maybe you should stop eating the pie? Let someone else eat. A smaller pie feeding two people, instead of the same person twice. It would be noble of you. Personally, I'm not noble in this area. However, that shouldn't stop you from doing it.

 

[Rich M]

1. You call residents greedy for putting in for tags they have already successfully hunted....yet, you brag about not giving to conservation groups, because you get a smaller piece of the pie. Pot meet kettle.
2. Residents can't afford what a NR can. How many residents of western states you know? hint for you...social economic numbers can be skewed due to a variety of factors, you should did a little deeper before posting such bs. Let me guess , you are judging western states by ski towns. You really want to hear BITCHING, visit Bozo and drive amongst the cali refuges.
3. Most NR can not move to states like MT, Wyo, honestly very few of would have what it takes to live in a rural state where there is no NANNY to take care of your azzz.
4. You obviously have never lived thru any "bubbles" in our economy. With all the govt handouts people have received, inflated prices our obvious, housing included. Every bubble burst, just give it time, but when it does, I will still be living in Montana and living the hell out of it.

Most folks do not fall in the parameters you put them in.

A $5,000 hunt is rare for me. At least 2, if not 3 years of skimping. 2023’s antelope hunt means no other out of state hunts for 3 years, 2021, 2022, and 2023.

Maybe you should stop eating the pie? Let someone else eat. A smaller pie feeding two people, instead of the same person twice. It would be noble of you. Personally, I'm not noble in this area. However, that shouldn't stop you from doing it.

I hunted WY 2017 for antelope( screwed up and listened to the doe hunting is fun group but saw 6 bucks for every doe), CO 2019 for mule deer, and WY 2023 for antelope.

Stopping w a representative for the species. Got a 160 inch muley, just need a pretty antelope and done.

Not one of these gotta go every year bunch. I started deer hunting in 1978. 3 western trips.

Am i being piggish?

 

[HvyBeams]

I hunted WY 2017 for antelope( screwed up and listened to the doe hunting is fun group but saw 6 bucks for every doe), CO 2019 for mule deer, and WY 2023 for antelope.

Stopping w a representative for the species. Got a 160 inch muley, just need a pretty antelope and done.

Not one of these gotta go every year bunch. I started deer hunting in 1978. 3 western trips.

Am i being piggish?

I was replying to the OP. He seems to be struggling with the size of the pie. Yet, he basically states he hunts western states all the time. Rich, if they are going to feed you, I suggest eating all you can eat.

 

[Rich M]

I was replying to the OP. He seems to be struggling with the size of the pie. Yet, he basically states he hunts western states all the time. Rich, if they are going to feed you, I suggest eating all you can eat.

10-4!

Thanks, HB.

I only ever wanted a buck antelope and a 4x4 muley. Will be done next year I hope. Love the stars out there.

 

[dirtytough]

Maybe you should stop eating the pie?

And that is part of what I’m saying. Hunters are going to quit either western hunting or hunting in general and the residents of the western states are going to lose the non res support.

A smaller pie feeding two people, instead of the same person twice. It would be noble of you. Personally, I'm not noble in this area. However, that shouldn't stop you from doing it.

I do pass on a lot of tags I/we could buy or draw. I personally don’t apply for antelope here. I’ve hunted them, so why not let someone else hunt them that hasn’t? I enjoy other hunts more. If I really enjoyed antelope hunting I would get a tag every year and skip deer/elk hunting.

I turned in a Montana deer tag last year. I had a week to hunt it if I wanted but decided to pass.

This year I have a good chance of drawing a rifle muley tag in state. I’m putting in for points. I’m hoping to draw a deer tag out of state and 1 deer is enough for me. If I even kill one. I don’t kill something just to fill a tag.

I hope to hunt 2 tags this year. 1 is otc and 1 is an easy draw.

Maybe I am taking to much of the pie? I don’t feel that I am but I’ll definitely reevaluate and think about it. Thanks.

 

[Dust Rider]

And that is part of what I’m saying. Hunters are going to quit either western hunting or hunting in general and the residents of the western states are going to lose the non res support.

Even if we loose non res hunting support and money it won’t financially break us. Our states make more revenue on eco tourism, biking, fishing and skiing. We will just move the money around to compensate. Most residents of western states are not going to pine over the loss of non resident hunters. Our resources are limited.
If NR hunters couldn‘t shoot horned animals you wouldn’t bother coming here anyway. How many NR‘s would pay all that money to shoot a cow,doe or ewe? It’s all about the trophy horns IMO.

 

[Cowbell]

So to hell with deer and elk if you can’t hunt them in another state. Got it.

Reading comprehension is a rare ability anymore...

 

[UpNorth89]

Even if we loose non res hunting support and money it won’t financially break us. Our states make more revenue on eco tourism, biking, fishing and skiing. We will just move the money around to compensate. Most residents of western states are not going to pine over the loss of non resident hunters. Our resources are limited.
If NR hunters couldn‘t shoot horned animals you wouldn’t bother coming here anyway. How many NR‘s would pay all that money to shoot a cow,doe or ewe? It’s all about the trophy horns IMO.

My group are all non residents and we keep coming out for cows only. It's still elk hunting and we still get to eat elk. Don't lump everyone together.

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[Billy Goat]

Even if we loose non res hunting support and money it won’t financially break us. Our states make more revenue on eco tourism, biking, fishing and skiing. We will just move the money around to compensate. Most residents of western states are not going to pine over the loss of non resident hunters. Our resources are limited.
If NR hunters couldn‘t shoot horned animals you wouldn’t bother coming here anyway. How many NR‘s would pay all that money to shoot a cow,doe or ewe? It’s all about the trophy horns IMO.

That might be the writing on the wall. If they are making more revenue off eco tourism, biking, fishing, and skiing, where will they focus resources?

You think they will pull resources from that to fund hunting?

 

[realunlucky]

Not many support things if there isn't something in it for them personally, others do.

Fact -'I'm personally not going to give an organization money to blatantly use it against the interests I originally invested with them to protect.

I'm interested in learning more about these "others"


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[stonewall]

Even if we loose non res hunting support and money it won’t financially break us. Our states make more revenue on eco tourism, biking, fishing and skiing. We will just move the money around to compensate. Most residents of western states are not going to pine over the loss of non resident hunters. Our resources are limited.
If NR hunters couldn‘t shoot horned animals you wouldn’t bother coming here anyway. How many NR‘s would pay all that money to shoot a cow,doe or ewe? It’s all about the trophy horns IMO.

There’s probably a number of people who enjoy doe and cow tags. I’ve done a few Wyoming trips exclusively for doe pronghorn; I just enjoy the experience. Buck/doe doesn’t matter. For the record - I won’t be filling any doe tags until they bounce back up there. first elk hunt was a cow tag in New Mexico - back then NR could draw cow tags. Is what it is

 

[Customweld]

Even if we loose non res hunting support and money it won’t financially break us. Our states make more revenue on eco tourism, biking, fishing and skiing. We will just move the money around to compensate. Most residents of western states are not going to pine over the loss of non resident hunters. Our resources are limited.
If NR hunters couldn‘t shoot horned animals you wouldn’t bother coming here anyway. How many NR‘s would pay all that money to shoot a cow,doe or ewe? It’s all about the trophy horns IMO.

If NR’s didn’t buy up the 12k Idaho elk tags, they’d be sold to residents at NR prices in under 2 weeks.

 

[Dust Rider]

That might be the writing on the wall. If they are making more revenue off eco tourism, biking, fishing, and skiing, where will they focus resources?

You think they will pull resources from that to fund hunting?

Honestly do not know. But how much money is really needed to fund hunting? The biologists, wardens and administration are one aspect. The animals and the land is there. How much from NR licenses actually goes back into wildlife specific funding vrs state general fund? In the last two decades it seems there are ten times more eco tourist here in MT, WY and ID than hunters,

 

[Customweld]

Reading comprehension is a rare ability anymore...

I comprende just fine amigo.

 

[Cant hit em]

If you guys see a HOWL alert for California id appreciate if you’d take action on it even though you’ll never come hunt here.
Thank you in advance

 

[Dust Rider]

My group are all non residents and we keep coming out for cows only. It's still elk hunting and we still get to eat elk. Don't lump everyone together.

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Yes, I was not fair in that statement. I think it’s great you guys take cows and does. And your right it is still hunting in the mountains.

 

[jmez]

I don't care about horns. I'd hunt elk every year till I'm not able with cow tags. Don't care if I never shoot another bull, and I've only shot a few of them.

Western hunting is starting to go the way of Midwest WT. All this talk of"opportunity" is really about better tags/horn porn. It will ruin western hunting dame as it did in the Midwest.

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