Petition - OTC for Colorado Residents

[sndmn11]

I'm just saying that you should identify your allies and your enemies, and your enemies aren't NR hunters.

I identify you as an allie, and I don't view NR hunters as an enemy. I think you should be able to hunt your state of residency as much as possible.
I hope you can have the same attitude about hunters in other states hunting their state of residency.

 

[Rado]

I'm just saying that you should identify your allies and your enemies, and your enemies aren't NR hunters.

If you want to keep the states resources to yourself, you might want to reconsider your stance on public lands.

This eventually evolves into a deeper debate of extracting the mineral resources of said public lands, where you do have real enemies - the politicians that have driven what was once the most prosperous nation, perhaps in the history of the world, into a nation that is 21,000,000,000,000 in debt. If we began to repay that debt back at $100 a second, it would take us 6,650 years to do it and that is assuming there is no inflation over 6K years.

The USGS has estimated and cataloged exactly how much - untapped oil, coal, gold, silver, and other mineral deposits are on public lands. So much so that the value is already on the balance sheet, and it's the Federal Government and ALL citizens that own that, not the state. This creates a situation where people begin questioning at what point is that land leased to private industry for extraction in order to overcome what is a real and potential danger - a debt crisis.

Who are you going to turn to to stand beside you to fight that? Would it be other RESIDENTS that only use the land for recreational purposes and wouldn't think twice if your hunting rights vanish? Or would it be your true allies which are NR hunters?

If opportunities for NR continue to be curtailed, we would have little to no stake in the matter at all, and there is a ton of wealth locked up in those lands that belong to all of us.

"Who are you going to turn to to stand beside you to fight that? Would it be other RESIDENTS that only use the land for recreational purposes and wouldn't think twice if your hunting rights vanish? Or would it be your true allies which are NR hunters?"

Friend, that is exactly what this is, residents trying to protect our hunting rights as we see them starting to vanish. Some ally you are proving to be.

FAQs | Big Game License Distribution | Engage CPW

Please see below for the current status on license distribution topics and updates. In response to the Commission’s request during the March Commission meeting, staff brought back final regulations for approval implementing staff’s recommendation of a 75/25 (Resident

engagecpw.org

"If opportunities for NR continue to be curtailed..."

What are you talking about? What state provides more opportunity to non-res hunters than Colorado? What western state has a draw system more preferential to non-residents vs residents?

 

[ScreamingPotato]

Likely so. I’d guess that a good number of NR would choose to build points and not hunt every year vs hunt zero point draw units in place of OTC.

Right now CO OTC is everybody's backup plan. I think it would do everyone some good if that OTC option dried up and people could be more strategic with other options, instead of shooting for the moon in various draws and falling back on CO maybe they'll apply for more targeted options to be able to hunt the other states and fall back on deer hunting their home state if need be.

 

[MallardSX2]

Colorado is the achilles heel of NR western elk hunting tag applications......

I'm curious to see what happens when it falls. Not saying I am looking forward to it, but I am really curious.

I just wish people would have to burn a point (or not be able to get a point) to get that OTC tag...That in itself would stop a lot of the madness in its tracks.

Know this, when the OTC falls in Colorado you are going to see point holders come out of the woodwork in WY, MT, UT. It's going to be interesting to say the least.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Colorado is the achilles heel of NR western elk hunting tag applications......

I'm curious to see what happens when it falls. Not saying I am looking forward to it, but I am really curious.

I just wish people would have to burn a point (or not be able to get a point) to get that OTC tag...That in itself would stop a lot of the madness in its tracks.

Know this, when the OTC falls in Colorado you are going to see point holders come out of the woodwork in WY, MT, UT. It's going to be interesting to say the least.

Getting rid of the hunt and get a point crowd is more than half the reason I want this, really should make it that way for R as well if they switch. Might be screwy for a couple of years but then it would settle and folks that want to hunt can hunt and folks that want to save up for trophy units can do it, but no more doing both

 

[MallardSX2]

Getting rid of the hunt and get a point crowd is more than half the reason I want this, really should make it that way for R as well if they switch. Might be screwy for a couple of years but then it would settle and folks that want to hunt can hunt and folks that want to save up for trophy units can do it, but no more doing both

I agree but I didn't want to offend any of the sensitive residents on this thread....lol

 

[stanginthe11s]

just want to clarify that I am not arguing that CO needs NR hunters, I'm only trying to help people understand how the economy works and where hunters fit into this. it appears that many people believe if you are a hunter then you are nothing more than a robot who only comes out for 1 week a year. if that is your life then I'm very sorry for you. as a NR hunter, I do a lot more than just hunt in CO throughout the year, so arguing that hunters are nothing is ridiculous.

the argument that hunters as a whole are a small insignificant part of the economy is sad and by far the worse fight we could have. all you're doing is telling people how little we mean and showing them that losing us does not matter. if that is truly how you feel then please do the hunting community a favor and leave.​

now, as far as business goes, it does not matter to a business if they make more money with any one group over another. businesses are run on a yearly basis, and as such the only thing that matters is total loss or gain. removing even $1 from that business will have an effect. never assume you know the books just because you see a place packed with people. any business can be on the edge at any given time. a store can be packed for 9 months making what appears to be hand over fist money, but all its doing is covering its overhead (orders, employees, bills etc.). those hunter dollars may be what feeds the owners kids, that may be all that's left at the end of the year. there is no way to know this.
now, on the other side of this is the reality that if businesses as a whole continue to show a large favor towards a certain group, lets say skiing because we do that here also, then there is the possibility your favorite hunting grounds will become a ski resort. this has happened here and can and will happen there if you continue to remove income from other groups. it may not be today or tomorrow, but its only a matter of time.

 

[Maverick1]

Oh, this looks like another thread solving all of the CO issues associated with getting a tag? Yawn.

 

[stanginthe11s]

on the subject of this thread, I absolutely agree with you that the hunting regs are screwy and I feel that way about all western states. I believe no state should put such limits on their residents for hunting. you absolutely deserve to hunt at any time for any animal on your lands. there simply are not enough res hunters to hurt the population there in my opinion, so there is no need to limit the residents in that way. the limits should be put on non res and that should be based on res. hunter #'s, success rate and herd size. anything that cannot be managed beyond that will fall on non res hunters.

I also think that if a non res hunter applies for the draw, they should not be allowed to purchase an OTC license. you get one choice, that's it. points should only be given if you fail to draw and cannot be purchased. keeping OTC for non res is not bad, but there should be limits based on actual game management needs.​

 

[gelton]

"Who are you going to turn to to stand beside you to fight that? Would it be other RESIDENTS that only use the land for recreational purposes and wouldn't think twice if your hunting rights vanish? Or would it be your true allies which are NR hunters?"

Friend, that is exactly what this is, residents trying to protect our hunting rights as we see them starting to vanish. Some ally you are proving to be.

FAQs | Big Game License Distribution | Engage CPW

Please see below for the current status on license distribution topics and updates. In response to the Commission’s request during the March Commission meeting, staff brought back final regulations for approval implementing staff’s recommendation of a 75/25 (Resident

engagecpw.org

"If opportunities for NR continue to be curtailed..."

What are you talking about? What state provides more opportunity to non-res hunters than Colorado? What western state has a draw system more preferential to non-residents vs residents?

I am not just referring to CO, but you are correct, as it stands today no state provides more opportunity than CO. Perhaps you didn't notice that this petition intends to change that. Most other Western states have odds that are already heavily slanted toward residents, especially for Elk and the current trend in ALL states is to move further in that direction.

We all have a common interest but greed is so ingrained in all of us (residents trying to protect OUR hunting rights) that eventually NRs, especially those in the East where public land is almost nonexistent, will have almost no stake at all as what happens to those public lands that we rarely get to hunt anyway...we already pay almost 1,000% more than residents for the same tag, and I am fine with that as long as there is a legit opportunity to go hunting every year.

And as entering draws goes - I burned 9 elk points this year and plan on burning 10 mule deer points next year. I have five antelope points that I will probably burn the year after and from there will be likely done with CO and perhaps western hunting in general if the trend continues (which it likely will), and I suspect others will too.

So like I said in my first post, be careful what you ask for, sometimes what seems like a good idea today might turn out to be a terrible idea in the long run.

 

[OKHunter84]

We make a hell of lot more money off of summer tourists and skiers here on the Western Slope then NR hunters provide. Ain’t no towns going to fold up and blow away because a smaller percentage of NR hunters come.

You're hunting privileges sure might. It's already been proven you're outnumbered by tree huggers and pot heads (wolf ballot). You need out of state support and money from NR hunters and organizations that help with land access, habitat, etc.

There needs to be a limit on OTC for everyone. You can't preach about how much the population has grown and then still think it's a good idea for 6 million folks to still have access to OTC elk tags.
You could still have a larger portion of tags for residents, just like limited draw.

 

[Archer86]

All doom and gloom for the NR hunter once colorado sets a quota for nr hunters either regions or units either will work equally well.
And You can still hunt otc in Oregon and Washington just walk into the Walmart and get that tag nothing like hunting Roosevelt's

 

[Rado]

I am not just referring to CO, but you are correct, as it stands today no state provides more opportunity than CO. Perhaps you didn't notice that this petition intends to change that. Most other Western states have odds that are already heavily slanted toward residents, especially for Elk and the current trend in ALL states is to move further in that direction.

We all have a common interest but greed is so ingrained in all of us (residents trying to protect OUR hunting rights) that eventually NRs, especially those in the East where public land is almost nonexistent, will have almost no stake at all as what happens to those public lands that we rarely get to hunt anyway...we already pay almost 1,000% more than residents for the same tag, and I am fine with that as long as there is a legit opportunity to go hunting every year.

And as entering draws goes - I burned 9 elk points this year and plan on burning 10 mule deer points next year. I have five antelope points that I will probably burn the year after and from there will be likely done with CO and perhaps western hunting in general if the trend continues (which it likely will), and I suspect others will too.

So like I said in my first post, be careful what you ask for, sometimes what seems like a good idea today might turn out to be a terrible idea in the long run.

Admittedly, the petition reads a bit confrontational for my liking towards non-res hunters. But the first paragraph explains the situation more clearly and contains some context you appear to be dismissing. Currently, CPW is openly discussing removing OTC for ALL archery hunters. CPW leadership has been quite outspoken about this approach to curbing overcrowding. They have also mentioned Rifle OTC changes will be considered as well.

Listening to CPW committee meetings over the last couple months has made it clear, archery OTC is as good as gone, likely for resident and non-resident. I don't speak for the author, but I safely assume from reading the first paragraph of the petition and from the context of the ongoing discussions at CPW meetings, that this petition is an attempt to KEEP OTC for residents rather than an attempt to REMOVE OTC for non-residents.

 

[KsRancher]

I never thought about what someone mentioned above. If the residents get to keep OTC. Do they still get to get a PP and hunt OTC? Or would it be if you get a tag then you lose them? A NR that is chasing a certain unit that they will hopefully catch in let's say 2-3yrs. Should they have to not hunt for that time while they accumulate more points to.get that unit? All the while a resident could still accumulate points to catch their unit and hunt every year OTC. I am not bringing this up to be confrontational. I would truly like to know what residents think?

 

[Archer86]

I never thought about what someone mentioned above. If the residents get to keep OTC. Do they still get to get a PP and hunt OTC? Or would it be if you get a tag then you lose them? A NR that is chasing a certain unit that they will hopefully catch in let's say 2-3yrs. Should they have to not hunt for that time while they accumulate more points to.get that unit? All the while a resident could still accumulate points to catch their unit and hunt every year OTC. I am not bringing this up to be confrontational. I would truly like to know what residents think?

Absolutely! As they should be able to build points and hunt otc. Nr are probably building points in multiple states and then hunting otc for something in there home state so tell my why a resident of a western state shouldn't be able to?

 

[Rado]

I never thought about what someone mentioned above. If the residents get to keep OTC. Do they still get to get a PP and hunt OTC? Or would it be if you get a tag then you lose them? A NR that is chasing a certain unit that they will hopefully catch in let's say 2-3yrs. Should they have to not hunt for that time while they accumulate more points to.get that unit? All the while a resident could still accumulate points to catch their unit and hunt every year OTC. I am not bringing this up to be confrontational. I would truly like to know what residents think?

I don't think anyone should be able to buy a point and hunt that animal in the same year.

 

[stanginthe11s]

if OTC and PP were managed correctly then a lot of problems would be solved. personally, I don't get why anyone should be able to buy points. points should be earned not bought.

 

[Archer86]

if OTC and PP were managed correctly then a lot of problems would be solved. personally, I don't get why anyone should be able to buy points. points should be earned not bought.

If otc and draw were managed correctly there would be no points system at all and everything would be a random draw

 

[stanginthe11s]

If otc and draw were managed correctly there would be no points system at all and everything would be a random draw

true, but random isn't always good or fair. one hunter may take years to draw where another hunter may draw consistently. remove draw, and a PP system gets put on a cycle which limits all hunters equally for a given unit.
it's how some units here are done and each unit has its own cycle. my property is on a 3 year cycle currently so I have to apply to get the points knowing I can't hunt a certain animal in that area for 3 years. I can still hunt everywhere else though. of course, I have landowner permits so I bypass that rule. also, NR cannot get points for my unit currently. it's a very effective system that gets monitored and adjusted every year and is coupled with antler restrictions.
by doing this, RES get their OTC and can equally hunt the prime units every so often while also helping trophy bull #'s. NON RES PP can be put on a longer cycle to limit hunters if needed, while also offering OTC to either less desirable areas or units that need extra conservation help. but to do this, a NR cannot be allowed to buy OTC and also receive PP's its one or the other. and CPW would actually have to work and be active in all aspects yearly.

 

[Ucsdryder]

You're hunting privileges sure might. It's already been proven you're outnumbered by tree huggers and pot heads (wolf ballot). You need out of state support and money from NR hunters and organizations that help with land access, habitat, etc.

There needs to be a limit on OTC for everyone. You can't preach about how much the population has grown and then still think it's a good idea for 6 million folks to still have access to OTC elk tags.
You could still have a larger portion of tags for residents, just like limited draw.

Lol!!! Yeah, out of state support. That’ll show em.