Monos vs. Lead. Which do you choose and why?

[Rick M.]

View attachment 486037

The correct answer is both!! But for mixing with egg nog, cognac gives it that perfect spice. *chef's kiss*

 

[Rick M.]

@35WhelenAI That was an excellent, well thought out post. I agree with everything you said. I'll also add that I've found the LRX to be much less range-dependent than lead-based ammo. Sometimes a close shot with the wrong lead-based bullet can destroy a lot of meat. With the Barnes, it's really just about staying above the velocity minimums.

 

[35WhelenAI]

These just got here today. My first batch of Hammers. Going to put them to the test in a couple of weeks.

View attachment 485913

Ok, I'm gonna pick up some .358 for the Whelen AI.

Despite the 200 TTSX being the Holy Grail of elk bullets, which happens to work just as well on regular deer in my experience.

Anyone with eyes on this thread recommend one version or the other for shooting animals from whitetails to elk?

 

[Billy Goat]

The correct answer is both!! But for mixing with egg nog, cognac give it that perfect spice. *chef's kiss*

Sounds Yankee.

Eggnog should be Bourbon.

 

[Rick M.]

Ok, I'm gonna pick up some .358 for the Whelen AI.

Despite the 200 TTSX being the Holy Grail of elk bullets, which happens to work just as well on regular deer in my experience.

Anyone with eyes on this thread recommend one version or the other for shooting animals from whitetails to elk?

From my understanding -

Shock Hammer - closer ranges
Hammer Hunter - the normal, most recommended general hunting version
Absolute Hammer - very fast, up to 300fps over traditional weights, experienced handloaders only

I'd just give the Hammer Hunters a shot. Hopefully that's what you were asking about

 

[Rick M.]

Sounds Yankee.

Eggnog should be Bourbon.

How dare you... I'm a southern boy. I'll have you know that I enjoy both a cognac and a rye with my egg nogg depending on my mood. Tonight I was feeling spicy.

 

[Billy Goat]

How dare you... I'm a southern boy. I'll have you know that I enjoy both a cognac and a rye bourbon with my egg nogg depending on my mood. Tonight I was feeling spicy.

And see that's how it starts, here I was picking on you, name calling.


I'll need to remove myself.


Honestly I'm just not a Cognac fan.

I'll go and sip my Woodford by myself this evening.

 

[Rick M.]

I like Woodford. They make a great rye.

 

[fngTony]

This was fun but out of respect to the OP let’s not continue to stray run way off topic.

 

[Forestryguy]

Ok, I'm gonna pick up some .358 for the Whelen AI.

Despite the 200 TTSX being the Holy Grail of elk bullets, which happens to work just as well on regular deer in my experience.

Anyone with eyes on this thread recommend one version or the other for shooting animals from whitetails to elk?

What is your setup for your .358 Whelen, and velocities? What ranges are you taking animals at with those 200s and getting expansion? I want to use monos for saving meat and all the other reason we have beat to death on this thread. I would like to use a med caliber to try and put whitetail down a bit harder since I deal with property lines in the midwest.

From my understanding -

Shock Hammer - closer ranges
Hammer Hunter - the normal, most recommended general hunting version
Absolute Hammer - very fast, up to 300fps over traditional weights, experienced handloaders only

I'd just give the Hammer Hunters a shot. Hopefully that's what you were asking about

What do they consider closer ranges?

 

[Rick M.]

What is your setup for your .358 Whelen, and velocities? What ranges are you taking animals at with those 200s and getting expansion? I want to use monos for saving meat and all the other reason we have beat to death on this thread. I would like to use a med caliber to try and put whitetail down a bit harder since I deal with property lines in the midwest.

What do they consider closer ranges?

Looks like 400 yards and in (which to me would be "normal range").

The Shock Hammers are our line of bullets that we designed for normal range hunting, where bc is inconsequential. So for most cartridges 400y or less. The Shock Hammer line is approximately an 80% weight retention bullet that has a larger hollow point for super quick opening on game with high retention for long straight penetration.

Scroll down to the "types of Hammer bullets" section here: https://hammerbullets.com/about-our-bullets/

 

[Rick M.]

I would like to use a med caliber to try and put whitetail down a bit harder since I deal with property lines in the midwest.

Same. I've already had to knock on two doors this season to recover deer (archery season). I'd like to minimize it with the rifle, as the walk-in areas are super tight up here. I'm pretty set on the .25-06 at this point. I think nearing 3200-3300 fps with a 103g grain Hammer or a 100g Barnes would be lethal. Now that I've moved to strictly copper bullets, I'm actually taking Form's advice and moving down a couple calibers. Going to see how a light, fast, smaller copper bullet performs.

 

[Balderdash]

Ok, I'm gonna pick up some .358 for the Whelen AI.

Despite the 200 TTSX being the Holy Grail of elk bullets, which happens to work just as well on regular deer in my experience.

Anyone with eyes on this thread recommend one version or the other for shooting animals from whitetails to elk?

I use the 200 TTSX in a 7600 carbine 35 Whelen. I use this rig mostly for snow tracking. Its a great cartridge/bullet for the oblique angle shots you often encounter on close up game in thick cover. I'd use it on any size game but have only taken WT with it and nothing over 100 yds, so can't comment on lower velocity performance. I can say that it puts game down quick in most instances.

Not that a guy needs tight groups in this rig, given it's primary use, but the 200 TTSX cuts tiny groups from the pump carbine.

 

[Drenalin]

Trigger warning - the photo below contains copper.

View attachment 486022

 

[Drenalin]

This was fun but out of respect to the OP let’s not continue to stray run way off topic.

I made my last post before I saw this one. I’ll stop now

 

[fngTony]

I made my last post before I saw this one. I’ll stop now

All good. You’re coming along nicely with the meme skills.

 

[Forestryguy]

Same. I've already had to knock on two doors this season to recover deer (archery season). I'd like to minimize it with the rifle, as the walk-in areas are super tight up here. I'm pretty set on the .25-06 at this point. I think nearing 3200-3300 fps with a 103g grain Hammer or a 100g Barnes would be lethal. Now that I've moved to strictly copper bullets, I'm actually taking Form's advice and moving down a couple calibers. Going to see how a light, fast, smaller copper bullet performs.

I can see where moving down calibers would be beneficial when trying to get max velocity out of a similar sized case, and also would help with accuracy (recoil). My thought is to go with the med bore, .358 or a .375, and run a lighter bullet to get the velocity for mono expansion. This would give the larger wound channel to increase bleeding for tracking and to hopefully disrupt more internally along with increasing momentum for pass throughs. Along with property lines that can be questionable on getting access across, I do not feel like tracking deer or a bear across marshes.

Hopefully I am able to learn more about this by following others on here. I don't have the time or resources to experiment much for the next few years. I'll just work with the 30-06 that I have now.

 

[Tod osier]

Same. I've already had to knock on two doors this season to recover deer (archery season). I'd like to minimize it with the rifle, as the walk-in areas are super tight up here. I'm pretty set on the .25-06 at this point. I think nearing 3200-3300 fps with a 103g grain Hammer or a 100g Barnes would be lethal. Now that I've moved to strictly copper bullets, I'm actually taking Form's advice and moving down a couple calibers. Going to see how a light, fast, smaller copper bullet performs.

I've killed a lot of deer with a .270 shooting barnes ttsx 130s and the 25/06 is just one step away (130 vs 100 grain is a pretty big difference 'tho). The .270 kills deer well, but it is not a drop them in their tracks round with a shot to the vitals. If at this point in my life I was looking for a woods gun that would result in DRT kills, I would go for a very easy to shoot round and focus on CNS hits if I didn't want them to run. I don't think a hit with a 100 grain going 200 fps faster is going to make much difference in a vital, non CNS hit.

 

[Tod osier]

I can see where moving down calibers would be beneficial when trying to get max velocity out of a similar sized case, and also would help with accuracy (recoil). My thought is to go with the med bore, .358 or a .375, and run a lighter bullet to get the velocity for mono expansion. This would give the larger wound channel to increase bleeding for tracking and to hopefully disrupt more internally along with increasing momentum for pass throughs. Along with property lines that can be questionable on getting access across, I do not feel like tracking deer or a bear across marshes.

Hopefully I am able to learn more about this by following others on here. I don't have the time or resources to experiment much for the next few years. I'll just work with the 30-06 that I have now.

I've killed only a couple deer with a 35 Whelen shooting 180 TTSX and found it fine, but I did not see any magic there. The only barnes bullet I've ever found inside a deer was from that combo on a close range, pretty much broadside shot.

 

[Balderdash]

I can see where moving down calibers would be beneficial when trying to get max velocity out of a similar sized case, and also would help with accuracy (recoil). My thought is to go with the med bore, .358 or a .375, and run a lighter bullet to get the velocity for mono expansion. This would give the larger wound channel to increase bleeding for tracking and to hopefully disrupt more internally along with increasing momentum for pass throughs. Along with property lines that can be questionable on getting access across, I do not feel like tracking deer or a bear across marshes.

Hopefully I am able to learn more about this by following others on here. I don't have the time or resources to experiment much for the next few years. I'll just work with the 30-06 that I have now.

All else being equal, larger bore diameter cartridges will give you more velocity with the same case sizes. As diameter increases, volume goes up exponentially. Inch over inch of barrel that gives a lot more room and air for powder combustion.

For an example, look what a 35 whelen will do with a 200 or 185 grn bullet vs what you can get out of an '06 with the same weights. Of course, increasing diameter also necessitates ever increasing weights to maintain BC, but if you're talking anything under 300 or so it's not as impactful.