CPW - ‘Righting’ some Wrongs

[sndmn11]

I think part of it is drawing a tag that takes 7 or 8 years and not realizing that residents draw it zero points. They see the unit one way and your prospective as a resident is much much different as you could go there yearly.

For me burning nearly a decade of points puts an added layer of stress on a hunt knowing I'm possibly never getting another chance there. That pressure can produce empathy for those who draw later and possibly making me more open to the option of sharing information.

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I understand, and I surely realized that perspective is present.

I'd ask then if it is appropriate to pee on the seat, leave dirty dishes out, and not make the bed when a person stays the weekend at a friend's house? Enough instances and you probably aren't welcome back.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

I guess I don’t see anyone telling the world where to hunt as having any effect on taking care of the land. As for driving where they are not supposed to I get that and have also seen many residents do it as well.

I do think residents are better about being tight lipped on good areas as they should be, why ruin a place you hunt every year or every other and a NR can only come maybe every 4 or 5 years. Only NR that would tell anyone about it is one that doesn’t plan to hunt there again.

Something CO needs to do is not allow for building points and still hunting the same year. Either hunt or build points, leftover and secondary draws should take points if you have any, if you have zero you go to the back of the list and get last choice.

100% agree. Am happy that AZ finally started to correct this issue with OTC archery.

 

[Bluumoon]

My main thought is if your going to hunt it’ll cost you your points, this would vastly reduce NR and R that only really want to trophy hunt and just making hunting an annual camping trip and just hang out in camps or around roads.

OTC will cost you your points as well, if you want to OTC hunt no building of points.

My point is if you want to hunt there is the opportunity to hunt annually but if you want to trophy hunt you lose your opportunity at hunting annually. It would be a personal choice.

This would stop people from building points and still hunting, it would vastly decrease pressure and yes there would be a hard decision to make if you have any points, burn them on lessor areas to hunt or keep waiting for prime time trophy areas.

I personally feel this is how it should be in all states, no building towards trophy units and still hunting annually, resident or nonresident.

As a resident this sounds terrible and would honestly detract from one of the reasons I live here far from family....The opposite sounds more appealing to me, you can only gain a point if you buy a tag and hunt a OTC/2nd draw/ leftover.

 

[SoloWilderness]

Probably, but from a different angle. I don't pay attention to "influencers" much, but the handful I see referenced seem to be attempting to educate on how people can obtain overlooked tags. I am not really aware of an influencer overtly communicating a unit/mountain/drainage. I also don't think most of the times when a NR shares information, it isn't out of ignorance or accidental. It seems to be more for attention or out of spite from the attitude of they won't be back anytime soon.

I regularly post about the elk tags in CO that are list C, OTC, months to hunt, etc. (just like I did in this thread) so maybe that makes me a bad influence as well.

There are plenty of easy-to-get tags where someone who is willing to put in the time can kill an elk every year. It's not unreasonable to reserve the majority of the best hunting for residents, when there are plenty of opportunities for NR to hunt less desirable tags, such as list C cow tags.

As a resident this sounds terrible and would honestly detract from one of the reasons I live here far from family....The opposite sounds more appealing to me, you can only gain a point if you buy a tag and hunt a OTC/2nd draw/ leftover.

This.

 

[Hnthrdr]

I think part of it is drawing a tag that takes 7 or 8 years and not realizing that residents draw it zero points. They see the unit one way and your prospective as a resident is much much different as you could go there yearly.

For me burning nearly a decade of points puts an added layer of stress on a hunt knowing I'm possibly never getting another chance there. That pressure can produce empathy for those who draw later and possibly making me more open to the option of sharing information.

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I have to say though that driving through CO the residents really could clean up their yards/lots, many treat their own property like a junk yard outside of the big cities.

Because of this I bought my CO property in an LOA because I don’t want a neighbor that treats their yard as a dump. You don’t really see this as much in many other states.

Guess what I’m saying is It’s hard to believe many in CO take care of public lands when they don’t even take care of their own land.

I think it’s interesting, but as someone who owns mountain property in smaller plots with neighboring cabins, the ones that are well kept are owned by Co residents the ones that are trashed or have crap everywhere are owned by folks from Ok or Tx and I have only seen them once in several years. Unless you know all the other owners are from Co I wouldn’t generalize, remember lots of NR buy spots in Co just like yourself.

 

[eltaco]

I’ve never in my life seen so much hatred for NR hunters than in this thread… it’s quite appalling that a worldwide forum for hunters can be this unwelcoming.

When I lived in CO, I actually helped NR hunters to fill their tags. Some of those gentlemen went on a hunt of a lifetime (for them) to an OTC elk unit and gave it all they could muster for the off-chance to even see an elk. It was a great privilege of mine to help them see and have opportunities at elk, even if they weren’t of the highest trophy quality. I’ve aided in animal recoveries and pack outs for resident and NR alike. We’re out there sharing the same passion… the last we need is to turn on one of the other small percentage of people on this world who share our same passions.

I can assure you that now as a NR of many Western states that I’ve lived in that I’m more tight-lipped about my hunting areas than many Residents. Any unit I draw takes me significantly more points than any resident, which makes my opportunities far more limited. The last thing I want to do is decrease that opportunity to hunt my favorite species by sharing my preferred hunting units. I count myself an honest man, but I’ll straight up lie to anybody about where I actually hunt out West.

Also, a lot of slander about NR coming in to ruin “your” areas. Maybe you’re not the baddest resident elk hunter around if a lowly NR flat lander can find himself in your honey hole? Even worse if we have the privilege to harvest an animal with our 5 days of vacation while you go without a tag notched after spending all summer with the ability to acclimate and scout it.

Consider for a second that many NR have family in your state, were raised in your state, have previously lived or even spent more time in your state than you have. My favorite places to hunt are all in areas that I’ve lived and it’s nostalgic to have the opportunity to return there once or twice a decade to have the opportunity to hunt land I have great memories enjoying as a resident.

 

[tdhanses]

Well, there is that set of hunters, both resident and non, I suppose. We are meat hunters first, and antler hunters second, at least the people I hunt with. We rely on a harvest, every year, to fill the freezer. We also hunt exclusively back country, miles from the road, and rarely see others, because we outhike and outhunt them. We typically have 3-4 cow tags for every bull tag, because we are realistic about what we need to target to fill all our tags.

To me that is a lousy choice, and one that I doubt many people would get behind. Personally, I could care less if NR get to hunt CO, especially if it comes at the cost of higher opportunity hunts for residents. No one I know goes with outfitters or spends the kind of money NR spend to go on outfitted hunts, nor could we. We hunt to feed our families, and if we get a nice set of antlers every once in a while, for the wall, great. I wouldn't make the choice to give up working towards a really nice bull every 8-10+ years just so I could hunt cows or small bulls every year. Something like this would just drive people out of hunting in general. Especially the people who go out and learn to hunt by going after cows while they build up points for what could be a OIL hunt for a good bull.

I get it that NR are salty that I can draw a tag with 0-2 points that costs them 5-6 points, but honestly, we pay the exorbitant cost of living in part to be able to hunt elk every year, whether that is to trophy hunt, or meat hunt. If NR want the same opportunities to hunt as R do, then move here. When a truck full of NR comes out, every one of them with bull tags, and all expect to fill them, it's a bit unrealistic, and they are more than likely primarily trophy hunting, rather than meat hunting. Big difference between a local who is budgeting $1000 or so to fill the freezer each year, but pays into the states coffers all year long, and a NR who comes out every once in a while to trophy hunt.

I think we are the minority, all these new hunters that maybe came into hunting from an influencer stand point and keep reducing all of our odds are going after antlers.

You are also in a minority, many residents won’t put their money where their mouth is, many would be very vocal even if Resident fees doubled which would be the cost of one decent meal out.

Personally residents need nonresidents and nonresidents need residents, unfortunately hunting is going to become a wealthy individual hobby in the next 20 years, just too much demand and little supply. I bet we see more outfitter get outfitter only tags as well. We are at a point where people only see their own wants and not the big picture, we are close to all losing out unless we can afford it’s cost, resident or not and no the sky isn’t falling just the writing is on the wall.

I also expect a push from other recreation groups to create a federal hunting timeframe for federal lands, could easily see there be a 2-3 week period each year big game hunting is only allowed, not the feds issue to manage wildlife, that’s a state issue.

My parents live in CO and stop atv riding come hunting season because they fear getting shot, many others feel this way as well.

 

[tdhanses]

I understand, and I surely realized that perspective is present.

I'd ask then if it is appropriate to pee on the seat, leave dirty dishes out, and not make the bed when a person stays the weekend at a friend's house? Enough instances and you probably aren't welcome back.

Depends, does the owner do that everyday in his own house

 

[svivian]

We’re out there sharing the same passion… the last we need is to turn on one of the other small percentage of people on this world who share our same passions.

The last thing I want to do is decrease that opportunity to hunt my favorite species by sharing my preferred hunting units. I count myself an honest man, but I’ll straight up lie to anybody about where I actually hunt out West.

Also, a lot of slander about NR coming in to ruin “your” areas. M

You don't want to decrease your opportunity, yet you want residents to help out the NR.

Got it.

 

[tdhanses]

As a resident this sounds terrible and would honestly detract from one of the reasons I live here far from family....The opposite sounds more appealing to me, you can only gain a point if you buy a tag and hunt a OTC/2nd draw/ leftover.

So no point unless you hunt, that would bring out more people competing for those tags then, just so they can build their points, maybe some wouldn’t even hunt and just hold the tags.

 

[tdhanses]

There are plenty of easy-to-get tags where someone who is willing to put in the time can kill an elk every year. It's not unreasonable to reserve the majority of the best hunting for residents, when there are plenty of opportunities for NR to hunt less desirable tags, such as list C cow tags.

This.

I agree with this, residents should get more trophy opportunities as they currently do and the state should annually make sure they update the allocations based on the law, which they didn’t do, all these current tags going to residents should of been there years ago.

 

[tdhanses]

I think it’s interesting, but as someone who owns mountain property in smaller plots with neighboring cabins, the ones that are well kept are owned by Co residents the ones that are trashed or have crap everywhere are owned by folks from Ok or Tx and I have only seen them once in several years. Unless you know all the other owners are from Co I wouldn’t generalize, remember lots of NR buy spots in Co just like yourself.

Go to areas like Pagosa, they are resident owned and the nicer homes are resident/nonresident owned, for the most part. Doubt many nonresidents live along hwy 160 in the fort garland to south fork area yet junk cars etc everywhere.

I do get what your saying, does seem like some NR from specific states take less care.

Also people that moved from other states to CO are residents, CO needs to put in some laws for cleaning up properties, i just don’t understand it really. I don’t care who owns the property no one should make their yards look like junk yards.

 

[tdhanses]

I’ve never in my life seen so much hatred for NR hunters than in this thread… it’s quite appalling that a worldwide forum for hunters can be this unwelcoming.

When I lived in CO, I actually helped NR hunters to fill their tags. Some of those gentlemen went on a hunt of a lifetime (for them) to an OTC elk unit and gave it all they could muster for the off-chance to even see an elk. It was a great privilege of mine to help them see and have opportunities at elk, even if they weren’t of the highest trophy quality. I’ve aided in animal recoveries and pack outs for resident and NR alike. We’re out there sharing the same passion… the last we need is to turn on one of the other small percentage of people on this world who share our same passions.

I can assure you that now as a NR of many Western states that I’ve lived in that I’m more tight-lipped about my hunting areas than many Residents. Any unit I draw takes me significantly more points than any resident, which makes my opportunities far more limited. The last thing I want to do is decrease that opportunity to hunt my favorite species by sharing my preferred hunting units. I count myself an honest man, but I’ll straight up lie to anybody about where I actually hunt out West.

Also, a lot of slander about NR coming in to ruin “your” areas. Maybe you’re not the baddest resident elk hunter around if a lowly NR flat lander can find himself in your honey hole? Even worse if we have the privilege to harvest an animal with our 5 days of vacation while you go without a tag notched after spending all summer with the ability to acclimate and scout it.

Consider for a second that many NR have family in your state, were raised in your state, have previously lived or even spent more time in your state than you have. My favorite places to hunt are all in areas that I’ve lived and it’s nostalgic to have the opportunity to return there once or twice a decade to have the opportunity to hunt land I have great memories enjoying as a resident.

Oh this is much more friendly then the WY thread was towards NR hunters.

 

[Bluumoon]

So no point unless you hunt, that would bring out more people completion for those tags then, just so they can build their points.

Maybe... With the current system people are collecting points sitting on the sidelines and then with COs generous allocation to NR they are able to have outsized access to trophy units compared to surrounding states. I'm just starting to learn MT and WY, but it seems they do something similar.

 

[Bluumoon]

Go to areas like Pagosa, they are resident owned and the nicer homes are resident/nonresident owned, for the most part. Doubt many nonresidents live along hwy 160 in the fort garland to south fork area yet junk cars etc everywhere.

I do get what your saying, does seem like some NR from specific states take less care.

Also people that moved from other states to CO are residents, CO needs to put in some laws for cleaning up properties, i just don’t understand it really. I don’t care who owns the property no one should make their yards look like junk yards.

Archuleta county (Pagosa) is something like 70%+ second homes. Not too much for jobs outside of service industry and maybe construction. Point being lots of poverty, which seemingly leads to the junk collector/littering situation. That area has nothing on the county I live in as far as the junk collecting goes. I can't stand looking at all the crap around here, but this is very much a live and let live county.

One could make a similar argument (resident vs NR tags) about who should carry the tax needs/burdens of Archeleta County and other playgrounds for Non Residents. Seems like the same argument is happening about every resource all across the West.

Apologies for the rambling. As a CO resident looking to hunt other states I'm happy to have the opportunity and understand giving residents preference.

 

[houghton_hunter]

As per the original post, depending on the unit this will mean a reduction of what 4-9 NR tags in many units, depending on how many are issued to begin with.

The current allocation is also pretty uneven, unit 61 has something like 19% of the tags going to NR, while unit 66 is 35%, so some units are already below the 25% threshold. It really depends on the unit, so this may only affect some NRs who have been building points in the hope of specific units.

Hunting is a wildlife management tool. The population in CO population has increased by what, 3 million people over the last 20 years? CPW simply does not need to be as open with NR tags, as there are more residents interested in hunting to make up the difference to manage the wildlife.

I remember for a long time WY was giving away doe and fawn tags to NRs (not so much the case now) to encourage population control of antelope and whitetail deer. Seems like its not the opportunity to hunt, just what you can hunt. CPW lowered the bear tag price to $100 for non-residents to encourage more take, thereby increasing the opportunity. Again hunting as management tool.

End of the day the CPW could reverse an allocation decision in the future if it deems it necessary to meet its wildlife management goals (obviously with some shenanigans from special interests). Right now hunters are not in short supply, they can raise prices, shrink allocations, it won't stop the posts I see on this forum about "First time hunting the west". NRs contribute many dollars to CPW coffers, its true, but CPW folks are accountable to residents at the ballot box (governor appoints the CPW commission), it is not just money, if it was the decision would be more simple.

 

[eltaco]

You don't want to decrease your opportunity, yet you want residents to help out the NR.

Got it.

Right, there’s a difference between helping hunters who are already afield find success and helping people find an area who have otherwise lacked the motivation to get there themselves.

My opportunity isn’t limited by people who have already drawn the tag, it’s limited by adding numbers to the draw pool. I’d help you pack an elk off of the mountain if I encounter you in the field and you’re in need… but I’m not going to tell you where to apply for that opportunity.

Also, I never said anything about “wanting residents to help NRs”… I don’t personally see the difference to help or not help a person in need based on where their home is planted. I don’t want for any help personally, but more than happy to lend a hand whether or not you reside in the state I hunt.

Hopefully that’s comprehensible.

 

[Still Hunter]

Hard to see all the "Hate" in here.
Fact is , individuals on both sides of all these the State lines in here are all wanting the same thing. An Elk Tag.
Some are willing to pay a lot more for them. The DOW's take advantage of that. Its called "Greed". I am glad Colorado Residents are getting some changes made through their politicians to some make some changes so the locals have more opportunity to get a tag. As it should be. But all this Resident VS Nonresident is just creating more hard feelings on both sides of state lines. Talk to your State representatives but don't bust the chops of guys that are taking advantage of opportunities to hunt. Do what you are doing and try to continue to change the systems in place. There is always going to be somebody else in every line to get a coveted elk tag.
If I was a Resident of Colorado I would probably rather have one Nonresident hunting 7 days with no scouting than 12 residents that can hunt , maybe 22 days ROFLMAO, roaming the same woods I was in, all season long. Just a thought. That would be even more overcrowding. Another hunter is another hunter.

 

[dirtytough]

NRs contribute many dollars to CPW coffers, its true, but CPW folks are accountable to residents at the ballot box (governor appoints the CPW commission), it is not just money, if it was the decision would be more simple.

Lol Colorado is the next WA, OR, or CA. I bet Colorado resident hunters are doing a great job at the ballot box.

 

[Lawnboi]

Not in regards to the OP, just to the general demeanor of this threads, on both ‘sides’ if you want to call them that.

The older I get the more I realize that many only really care about themselves. Nothing you can say or do will ever change that. Be it hunting, work, whatever.