CPW - ‘Righting’ some Wrongs

[Slugz]

But your point in the previous post suggested that CO would simply replace NR tag money by charging public lands access for recreational users. There doesn’t appear to be a way that the state would get much out of the feds charging a permit for access to Ntl Forrest or BLM lands and I don’t foresee the FS ever having the will, the means or the manpower to manage such a system.

" simply" no.
And replace all with just that, no.
I guess I could have written it better.

My intent was this is just one area that continues to be discussed. It could be just one tool in the box to try and solve the problem is all. Not the end all be all.

Edit Made

 

[tdhanses]

You don't buy points in CO for preference point drawn hunt codes. They have no monetary value because they cost zero dollars to obtain.

I spent $0 over 30 years on points, I’m pissed!

 

[WTFJohn]

My point was resident hunters aren’t holding any politician accountable. Or the CPW in this case. Like you stated there aren’t enough.

You realize the wolf reintroduction was a ballot measure, right? And that only three 12 counties in the state approved it, right?

Were you at the CPW round table meetings, the working groups, or any of the multiple discussions that were held on the matter? I was, a long with a lot of hunters and western CO residents. Damn near no one was happy with how that played out, and we're still fighting on the fronts we can.

Is your POV really that CO hunters are driving all this change in tags because they are selfish, while also not having a voice in state decisions (but it's a voice louder than NR, who pay more and should be listened to more), and we're in need of the NR hunters to come buy tags and speak up to save CO hunting (only on the years they can draw tags, otherwise f***-em)?

@MallardSX2 regarding you wanting the data kept the same so you don't lose your 'investment', how far back should we go with that? Only to the year before you started buying points, or do we just go back to day 1 of Colorado Department of Wildlife (before it was CPW) and use the regs that were in place then? I'm assuming you reached out to your investment manager and mentioned to him that Q2 2007 was the last year of good data, and all decisions should be based around that for 2023. I mean, the market was red hot in 2007, nothing bad could've happened or changed in the intervening years, right?

 

[tdhanses]

You realize the wolf reintroduction was a ballot measure, right? And that only three counties in the state approved it, right?

Were you at the CPW round table meetings, the working groups, or any of the multiple discussions that were held on the matter? I was, a long with a lot of hunters and western CO residents. Damn near no one was happy with how that played out, and we're still fighting on the fronts we can.

Is your POV really that CO hunters are driving all this change in tags because they are selfish, while also not having a voice in state decisions (but it's a voice louder than NR, who pay more and should be listened to more), and we're in need of the NR hunters to come buy tags and speak up to save CO hunting (only on the years they can draw tags, otherwise f***-em)?

@MallardSX2 regarding you wanting the data kept the same so you don't lose your 'investment', how far back should we go with that? Only to the year before you started buying points, or do we just go back to day 1 of Colorado Department of Wildlife (before it was CPW) and use the regs that were in place then? I'm assuming you reached out to your investment manager and mentioned to him that Q2 2007 was the last year of good data, and all decisions should be based around that for 2023. I mean, the market was red hot in 2007, nothing bad could've happened or changed in the intervening years, right?

So 3 counties now control the future in CO?

 

[WTFJohn]

So 3 counties now control the future in CO?

Large metro areas hold sway in many states, I'm not sure what your point is. I also went and rechecked the data, there were 12 counties that ended with over 50% in favor. Primarily in the front range, and a few down in SW CO.

 

[eltaco]

I spent $0 over 30 years on points, I’m pissed!

Believe it or not, there’s still a cover charge to obtain that “free preference point” in every state a NR applies to. Last I checked I don’t get the option to obtain a “free point” without making a purchase of a license I have no intent to use unless I draw a tag. It is what it is and I’m happy to donate that money to obtain the point… but there’s absolutely a cost involved in obtaining it.

I suppose I similarly consider that my cost of obtaining a point, because the license or fees have no other meaningful value other than buying an opportunity to draw an elk tag.

 

[wytx]

Yes. I feel that when I started applying for points it was “65/35”. That’s the odds that I was buying points for and what should be honored.

Now let me ask you this:

During an away football game, when your team is about to kick the field goal (that may or may not cost you the game) do you think the referee should have a sidebar conversation with the home team coach, then step in and tell you to back up 20 more yards because the home team is complaining that you have an unfair advantage? Who is being the poor sport?

So if numbers go down you still feel entitled to your license regardless of herd health?
Just exactly how much did you spend on PP in Colorado?
Rules change in football too, over the years.

 

[Hnthrdr]

So 3 counties now control the future in CO?

I mean you aren’t far off, denver, jeffco, Boulder, Arapaho, and Larimer hold enough votes to basically shove any measure down our throats. The wolf thing was over before it started. If you read the voter blue book it was super pro wolf and the rebuttal to introducing them was so weak it was basically pro wolf too.

 

[MallardSX2]

So if numbers go down you still feel entitled to your license regardless of herd health?

That’s would be a ridiculous thought process…and I’m not sure where you derived that from anything I have posted…

Regardless of all of our stances on tag allocation we ultimately ALL want to see healthy and flourishing herds of animals.

 

[tdhanses]

Believe it or not, there’s still a cover charge to obtain that “free preference point” in every state a NR applies to. Last I checked I don’t get the option to obtain a “free point” without making a purchase of a license I have no intent to use unless I draw a tag. It is what it is and I’m happy to donate that money to obtain the point… but there’s absolutely a cost involved in obtaining it.

I suppose I similarly consider that my cost of obtaining a point, because the license or fees have no other meaningful value other than buying an opportunity to draw an elk tag.

In CO it’s a $10 habitat stamp paid once and $9ea for bear, elk, deer and antelope and goat, moose and sheep are $100, for nonresidents. So for elk and deer a point is pretty inexpensive and these charges are relatively new in the last few years, so no one has paid thousands to build points in CO.

 

[Jaquomo]

My point was resident hunters aren’t holding any politician accountable. Or the CPW in this case. Like you stated there aren’t enough.

I understand your point, but how do we "hold them accountable" when only one member of the Parks and Wildlife Commission hunts, some Commissioners don't even know what a preference point is, the governor's husband who recommends appointments to the Commission is an anti-hunting animal rights vegan, and the majority blue politicians aren't interested in hunting and fishing issues at all.

We do what we can, attend and speak out in public meetings, attend Sportsmans Roundtables, email the Commissioners, and have one of the strongest hunter advocacy groups in the country (CBA). But when the rubber meets the road, they generally adopt predetermined policies contrary to what would benefit resident hunters.

Colorado is so screwed

 

[tdhanses]

I mean you aren’t far off, denver, jeffco, Boulder, Arapaho, and Larimer hold enough votes to basically shove any measure down our throats. The wolf thing was over before it started. If you read the voter blue book it was super pro wolf and the rebuttal to introducing them was so weak it was basically pro wolf too.

Yeah it was an up hill battle to stop it for sure but this is also the group that will possibly determine the future of hunting in CO. Just think back to Spring bear hunting and how it was canceled by the front range at a time it was more conservative.

I would say worrying about nonresident tag allocations is far from the big concern residents should have and what they should be fighting for.

 

[dirtytough]

You realize the wolf reintroduction was a ballot measure, right? And that only three counties in the state approved it, right?

So resident hunters aren’t holding anyone accountable? Because 3 total counties control the state? I could of swore that’s basically what I typed. Resident hunters have zero sway in Colorado now. Whether at the ballot box or with the commission, which is appointed by an anti hunter. Colorado is the next WA, OR, or CA.

Were you at the CPW round table meetings, the working groups, or any of the multiple discussions that were held on the matter? I was, a long with a lot of hunters and western CO residents. Damn near no one was happy with how that played out, and we're still fighting on the fronts we can.

Nope I wasn’t.

Is your POV really that CO hunters are driving all this change in tags because they are selfish, while also not having a voice in state decisions (but it's a voice louder than NR, who pay more and should be listened to more), and we're in need of the NR hunters to come buy tags and speak up to save CO hunting (only on the years they can draw tags, otherwise f***-em)?

My POV is most residents of the western states are short sighted when it comes to non res hunters. Like I said don’t take something with one hand while asking for support with the other from the same group.

I see you edited your next post before I could quote it. But get used to that also. Multiple people complain that non res are driving up housing costs and property taxes.

 

[Hnthrdr]

I understand your point, but how do we "hold them accountable" when only one member of the Parks and Wildlife Commission hunts, some Commissioners don't even know what a preference point is, the governor's husband who recommends appointments to the Commission is an anti-hunting animal rights vegan, and the majority blue politicians aren't interested in hunting and fishing issues at all.

We do what we can, attend and speak out in public meetings, attend Sportsmans Roundtables, email the Commissioners, and have one of the strongest hunter advocacy groups in the country (CBA). But when the rubber meets the road, they generally adopt predetermined policies contrary to what would benefit resident hunters.

Colorado is so screwed

To piggy back of Jaquomo, the commission who makes these rules are appointed by the Gov. They have no accountability outside of that. Voters are removed from the process unless you remove the Gov, which in the Current state of Co they will only elect one party now because of where all the folks that moved into the l 4/5 major population counties came from.

 

[Jaquomo]

Yeah it was an up hill battle to stop it for sure but this is also the group that will possibly determine the future of hunting in CO. Just think back to Spring bear hunting and how it was canceled by the front range at a time it was more conservative.

I would say worrying about nonresident tag allocations is far from the big concern residents should have and what they should be fighting for.

Right. We will very likely be voting on lion and bobcat hunting in 2024, and it will be banned. Just wait until they put bowhunting on the ballot, backed (again) by big California money, and the media campaign floods our senses with nasty photos of animals with arrows in their eyeballs, gut shot animals dying in yards, clips from our own videos, etc..

Colorado is so screwed.

 

[PredatoronthePrairie]

In CO it’s a $10 habitat stamp paid once and $9ea for bear, elk, deer and antelope and goat, moose and sheep are $100, for nonresidents. So for elk and deer a point is pretty inexpensive and these charges are relatively new in the last few years, so no one has paid thousands to build points in CO.

Can u verify this. Thought you had to purchase a license, stamp and app for each species you were interested in applying for.

Would roughly cost 120 for a pp in elk/deer.
Honest?

 

[tdhanses]

To piggy back of Jaquomo, the commission who makes these rules are appointed by the Gov. They have no accountability outside of that. Voters are removed from the process unless you remove the Gov, which in the Current state of Co they will only elect one party now because of where all the folks that moved into the l 4/5 major population counties came from.

So maybe it would be best to try to recruit new residents that have similar views vs saying nonresident hunters are an issue, to me resident non hunters are your bigger issue.

 

[tdhanses]

Can u verify this. Thought you had to purchase a license, stamp and app for each species you were interested in applying for.

Would roughly cost 120 for a pp in elk/deer.
Honest?

It’s only one stamp payment per year, you would know this if you apply for or hunt multiple species, there is also the requirement to buy a small game annual license but that is just another hunting opportunity and not related to points, don’t have to buy it for OTC hunting, there you only pay the $10 stamp.

 

[dirtytough]

I understand your point, but how do we "hold them accountable" when only one member of the Parks and Wildlife Commission hunts, some Commissioners don't even know what a preference point is, the governor's husband who recommends appointments to the Commission is an anti-hunting animal rights vegan, and the majority blue politicians aren't interested in hunting and fishing issues at all.

We do what we can, attend and speak out in public meetings, attend Sportsmans Roundtables, email the Commissioners, and have one of the strongest hunter advocacy groups in the country (CBA). But when the rubber meets the road, they generally adopt predetermined policies contrary to what would benefit resident hunters.

Colorado is so screwed

I’m not saying Colorado resident hunters aren’t doing the best they can.

Another poster said something about it’s resident hunters holding the CPW accountable through voting.

I was pointing out that resident hunters aren’t able to do anything. There aren’t enough to hold the governor or cpw accountable.

Pretty sure we are on the same page. 5% of the states population isn’t holding anybody accountable for anything. Agreed about being screwed.

 

[tdhanses]

Right. We will very likely be voting on lion and bobcat hunting in 2024, and it will be banned. Just wait until they put bowhunting on the ballot, backed (again) by big California money, and the media campaign floods our senses with nasty photos of animals with arrows in their eyeballs, gut shot animals dying in yards, clips from our own videos, etc..

Colorado is so screwed.

This is the big picture many don’t see.